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Scotch089 said:

There are two users right off the top of my head that have opened separate threads talking about and explaining, how to get off the globes, the first went as far as looking the chips and determining the actual CREE emitters (went in as far to tell you WHICH cree chips were used... for a while people were HUNTING for the "better" of the two chips used..) ........ AND there is a captain's old thread, look around dude. There are plenty of users that could speak to all this as well, do some research. Frankly you spamming *#&%@()%*#$&?? on the xgs or your know-how irritates the fuck out of me, you don't know how that panel performs, that being said- I am setting back watching your thread in hopes that you ARE right about COBs.

If I can ill link all those threads, be safe growers

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Don't know where to begin here. This is no place to start flaming people. Can we please keep things civil here? I own an XGS and DO know first-hand exactly how it performs.

If anyone else thinks I'm spamming, please speak up and I'll stfu.

Gaius said:

Don't know where to begin here. This is no place to start flaming people. Can we please keep things civil here? I own an XGS and DO know first-hand exactly how it performs.

If anyone else thinks I'm spamming, please speak up and I'll stfu.

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Scotch has an SGS and has had it for plenty longer than you quick fling with your xgs.

You have come out on several occasions saying that cob DIY will "blow away" and "smoke" both apache and a51 or any other commercial panel. I have yet to see you show any real full proof. They may be close to equal based on who is using them, but your statements suggest a serious difference in performance specifically.

Did you complete a full grow with the xgs in it's recommended area? And did you complete a full grow with your diy?

I won't call you spamming but you are counting chickens that you just conceived the eggs(your FIRST diy) for, and you just come off seeming to have less validity. And that rubs people(me included) the wrong way. As where some one who has built it, tested it and shows/says everything about the grow says a lot more about the light and the grower.

A true good light never needs to bad mouth or put down any other light...rather they just need to simply show with evidence, data, and proof that their light is at the top in all quantitative and qualitative performance metrics. If they can show/do that they can take on any light head to head, watt for watt(or less if going up against wasteful hps) with confidence. Which is mostly up to a growers to show the difference in actual use/practical situations otherwise it will always be a little skeptical. And the more that multiple people can repeatedly can show proof obviously the more valid the method/system/light/whatever is.

Long story short build you light and show us what it can do flip to finish(or before)...then you can talk all you want with full credibility. And a side by side would help your claims even more.

Did I bad mouth a51 somewhere? Show me where I did. I reported smaller than normal bud development with the XGS Than I had with 1000 watt of HPS... Hardly a fair comparison to begin with. So you A51 cronies around here need to calm down. I'm not now nor have ever trashed the light. I observed and theorized from a short personal test that the XGS may not be the better a51 light for flowering.

You can lay down the pitchforks and torches. My statement about smoking the other light comes directly from the efficiency specifications of CXA3070s. On paper, there is just no contest. And you can bet your pricey commercial panel that I'll be journaling the new light's progress.

Gaius said:

Did I bad mouth a51 somewhere? Show me where I did. I reported smaller than normal bud development with the XGS Than I had with 1000 watt of HPS... Hardly a fair comparison to begin with. So you A51 cronies around here need to calm down. I'm not now nor have ever trashed the light. I observed and theorized from a short personal test that the XGS may not be the better a51 light for flowering.

You can lay down the pitchforks and torches. My statement about smoking the other light comes directly from the efficiency specifications of CXA3070s. On paper, there is just no contest. And you can bet your pricey commercial panel that I'll be journaling the new light's progress.

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I honestly like a51 because only because they copied apache...other than that I tell what works based on proof and numbers...numbers that matter to growth.
As for proof of your bad mouthing companies...

Gaius said:

Apaches may be the most expensive, but I wouldn't allude to them being the best LED solution out there. DIY builds will blow the pants off any pre-made panel out there, including all of RIU's big 3: Apache, A51, and Hans.

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Gaius said:

Hyroot is correct.
Or for the same money, you can build your own which will SMOKE both of those.

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You may do a little pre-shit talking kiss ass to start, but the bottom line to your statement is that diy will dominate in performance over all commercial panels. Big claims there bub...start backing that up.

Like many others before you, I suspect a slight retreat in the future once your visions don't come to fruition exactly as you think. I would love to see you prove me wrong, but many have come out all hyped up, then fade off shortly after reality and their claims meet.

I'm done with this little tis...just letting you know how you come off and why I think/feel that...you asked. Good luck, I'll be watching.

Fair enough. Keep an eye on the new journal, which should begin in about a month when the current grow wraps up. I'll capitulate here and agree my earlier statements were conjecture. That said, if I can reach the yields of 2 XGSs with the new light, then I'll feel quite vindicated.

LOL crony eh? You really have no idea what youre talking about... '51 and I have been around the block and back about several things... and can still get along better than you and I have so far.

*In my defense- everything I personally state is as close to fact/proven as I can give you, have a quesiton, Ill try to help you. Biased bout some things? Fuck yes, no why? cus it is the best I have found so far, and proven. Like I said, I am watching you COB guys and even considering a DIY build for the smaller 12/12 area of mine, but if I did it itd be all out and some of an investment... (mono and COBs) ANYWAYS...

Gaius said:

Hyroot is correct.

Or for the same money, you can build your own which will SMOKE both of those.

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Really? Same bill huh..? All these companies must order THOUSANDS of these parts... scoring a bulk discount, and I STILL bet their profit margin isn't shit... know how? cus I went out of my way to be a personable guy and understand from their perspective, as they did mine by making such a damn good product- for the market, and the budget.

Gaius said:

They give discounts when people post journals using their stuff here. Kinda makes you wonder how much of the enthusiasm is genuine, and how much comes from people that received perks (or are hoping to). Anyhow I own an XGS and can vouch for its build quality, but I'd trade it in a heartbeat for 2 Hans panels or an SGS-160 at this point.

If anyone wants an XGS. I'll sell the 2-month old unit for $450.

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Kinda makes you wonder, what you know... I would be the first to question 51 posting here and there, but 1st this is a community, he can do what he wants, 2ndGo to any other forum (IC in specific..) and look at the Product Spamming from Lush or any other REAL bullshit company, 51, or Hans, and AT are 3 of the what.... 4-6 companies even known to post/give out PPFD/umol numbers, and they are the only ones actually matching their counterpart HIDs.

51 is a business and advertising their product here was a seriously great move on their part- the finesse in how straight up he is able to do it- no bullshit and backed with proof, logic, and real information. I think they deliver in a very "transparent" (biscuits' term..) way, and 3rd THEY DONT EVEN NEED TO, their product would still be around here because it IS on the top shelf of panels.

The fact that you draw Hans into it blows my mind...

Gaius said:

FYI Folks:

If you go Area51 for flowering, I'd recommend the SGS-160 over the XGS-190. The XGS simply doesn't have enough red for dense buds, but it is a superb panel for vegging (up to about 20" of growth).

If you really want to go with the XGS, just get yourself some T5HOs, CFLs, or red LEDs to supplement it. I bet a Hans panel on either side of the XGS would work pretty nicely. Run the XGS on 60w & 130w modes for the first few weeks, then when you flip to 12/12, switch it to 190w mode and add in some additional red-spectrum lighting.

In my current run I'm on track to yield close to a pound from just a single XGS and 400 watts of 2700K T5HO.

DIY is also a GREAT option! If you can put together a piece of IKEA furniture, you can build your own COB LED panel. Make sure to check around this forum for possible DIY ideas before buying an off-the-shelf unit. You'll be surprised how easy DIY panels are, and you can get a lot more light for your money by going that route.

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YOU DONT KNOW! (yet) you recommend supplementing a 200w Panel w/ 400w of T5..?? Why did you even get into LED in the first place, cus there went your eff... O, and you posted you're using the 60w feature after you stated you only had the 130/190, did you find the third mode?

Gaius said:

Apaches may be the most expensive, but I wouldn't allude to them being the best LED solution out there. DIY builds will blow the pants off any pre-made panel out there, including all of RIU's big 3: Apache, A51, and Hans.

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THIS is my favorite.... im sorry for being a dick but pucks sake.... allude to something logical dude. Contact some people, look into some things, DO. YOUR. RESEARCH. (no ones perfect, I don't research as much as I should... I don't have that kind of time [do you KNOW how hard it is to past all these fucking quotes on an ipad?] to research everything I want... I have priorities that take over, but I also don't speak to shit I don't know.) Supra and Gouid (i miss you Gouid , and Im sorry to even put your name in here... actually......) have shown how far DIY can go, but look at the builds- like I said- if I do DIY it is going to be of the most efficient components and I can bet I will be equal-to if not more under the dotted line replicating what others are trying to do "wholesale" to the general public (or prestigious universities that know more htan you or i, or him and her...).

Gaius said:

IMO Area 51s are a bit overrated here at RIU. In fact, I am selling my XGS-190 immediately following completion of my the new 3070 array. The XGS is cool an all, but fairly expensive for the coverage when compared to COB tech. Still better than most out there, but DIY is the future.

So if anyone wants a 2-month old XGS, I'll have it for sale in a few days.

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And I can even agree with you on this one... but the panels are all over the place for a reason, yea, makes my eyes glaze that much faster, but fuck. Go buy those hans panels and do a fuckin side by side, results are results and I am a firm lover of multi panels AND monos so the ball should be in your court. I already know the results, they ARE the most efficient prebuilt panel.


And again, this isn't about YOU gauss, I don't know you. You may be a great person. but those quotes heat me up all over again every time I read them.

Drink some Scotch and cool down. I know it's a bitch on the iPad so don't waste your time on me. I've redacted my statements about my light being better for now.

Regardless, I am all DIY from here on out, so don't count on me buying anyone's panel ever again.

I just bought a nice bottle of Macallan 12 year. Tastes of heaven. I'd hand you one if we had this conversation in person. No need to get heated. We're supposed to be a bunch of peaceful stoners right?

you know what would make this world a better place.If everyone would FART in public.Just let it rip and see how much better you would feel

Gaius said:

Did I bad mouth a51 somewhere? Show me where I did. I reported smaller than normal bud development with the XGS Than I had with 1000 watt of HPS... Hardly a fair comparison to begin with.

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If it was hardly a fair comparison, why did you even come on here making said comparison?
You never mentioned before that you were trying to replace a 1000W HPS with one XGS.
A little more of the truth leaks out each time you get questioned about your motives.

As for bad mouthing A51, you may not be doing it directly, but you are trying to sow seeds of doubt about the product.
A product that you have now admittedly used improperly, because none of us here or Area 51 has ever said that one XGS could replace a 1000W HPS.

Gaius said:

Drink some Scotch and cool down. I know it's a bitch on the iPad so don't waste your time on me. I've redacted my statements about my light being better for now.

Regardless, I am all DIY from here on out, so don't count on me buying anyone's panel ever again.

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Angry Orchard all day bub, just saw my first commercial of it the other day... too cool its "coming out," saw karma and inronically- EH have been sippin too.

gaius your DIY looks stellar, seriously, I LOVE the extension feature (you stole it didn't you!! I knew it..), and I have a level of faith... (480 lit watts, uhhh yea.. of course I do), on top of your technically savvy design, not to mention COBs are KINDVE already proven ("spot sources") from HID, and COB LEDs still have the upper hand on those w/ the "direction of emittance" (a word?)

Seriously, good job, and I am looking forward to your journal and light. Be safe, and back to our scheduled programming, I do apologize for taking things so far off track. this is not the topic of the thread.

CREE's for $7 for now, looks like in store only, ill be taking mine in and returning em for some of the CREEs (face=to=palm)

The Dawg said:

you know what would make this world a better place.If everyone would FART in public.Just let it rip and see how much better you would feel

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...........pppppppphhhhhhhhhfffffffft............

gonna have to check my pants on that one..

Bad Karma said:

If it was hardly a fair comparison, why did you even come on here making said comparison?
You never mentioned before that you were trying to replace a 1000W HPS with one XGS.
A little more of the truth leaks out each time you get questioned about your motives.

As for bad mouthing A51, you may not be doing it directly, but you are trying to sow seeds of doubt about the product.
A product that you have now admittedly used improperly, because none of us here or Area 51 has ever said that one XGS could replace a 1000W HPS.

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OK here's the A51 sales rep chiming in. I ran the xgs on its recommended footprint of 3x3. My 1000watt was over a 4x4. So it's not what your are making it out to be.

I'm trying to sow the seeds of DIY, so don't get my motives confused either.

Screw the man. Do it yourself and feel proud about it.

Gaius said:

OK here's the A51 sales rep chiming in.

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...and here's Admiral Smurf still trying to besmirch A51.
I had a feeling it was you again.

Scotch089 said:

Angry Orchard all day bub, just saw my first commercial of it the other day... too cool its "coming out," saw karma and inronically- EH have been sippin too.

gaius your DIY looks stellar, seriously, I LOVE the extension feature (you stole it didn't you!! I knew it..), and I have a level of faith... (480 lit watts, uhhh yea.. of course I do), on top of your technically savvy design, not to mention COBs are KINDVE already proven ("spot sources") from HID, and COB LEDs still have the upper hand on those w/ the "direction of emittance" (a word?)

Seriously, good job, and I am looking forward to your journal and light. Be safe, and back to our scheduled programming, I do apologize for taking things so far off track. this is not the topic of the thread.

CREE's for $7 for now, looks like in store only, ill be taking mine in and returning em for some of the CREEs (face=to=palm)



...........pppppppphhhhhhhhhfffffffft............

gonna have to check my pants on that one..

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Thank you Scotch. I hope I'm right, but will admit if I'm wrong. I didn't steal the idea. I was in Lowe's looking for aluminum brackets and stumbled on the rails in the same isle, and they were cheaper.

Bad Karma said:

...and here's Admiral Smurf still trying to besmirch A51.
I had a feeling it was you again.

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Bad Karma, your posts in here since I've joined this forum reek of fanboy or sales rep. You post nothing but trash talk on other lights, while constantly recommending area 51. Do you work for them? What did they give you? I'm papa smurf to you son. When did I besmirch area 51? The XGS I own is a great vegger.

Gaius said:

The XGS I own is a great vegger.

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You seem to be sticking to your story on this...

Can anyone with the experience attest to it being a great flowering lamp?

I own one, but I don't have it yet and its very troubling to think that I might not have what I want once in hand.
The SGS-160 is the reason I had been following A51 for many months...I just assumed that each release would/should get better.
And damn now there's a load of new models coming soon.

Gaius said:

Bad Karma, your posts in here since I've joined this forum reek of fanboy or sales rep. You post nothing but trash talk on other lights, while constantly recommending area 51. Do you work for them? What did they give you? I'm papa smurf to you son. When did I besmirch area 51? The XGS I own is a great vegger.

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I think I'll just call you Smurfette.
The only lights I've trashed are shitty ebay ones.
You can try to put words in my mouth, but it didn't work last time, and it won't work this time.

I don't work for A51 in any capacity.
EH and I go back a few years, he helped me out after Fero (BC) screwed me on a light.
I ordered, paid, and they failed to deliver anything, except for empty promises.
EH found out, stepped up, and hooked me up with a light at a great price.
I'm a loyal and satisfied customer who's provided proof of what LED's are capable of.

You continue to try and plant seeds of doubt about the XGS with comments like "it's a great vegger".
It is more than a "great vegger", which you would have found out, if you would have used it right.
Comments that you can see are effecting members like JJ43, making him questioning his purchase.

JJ43 said:

You seem to be sticking to your story on this...

Can anyone with the experience attest to it being a great flowering lamp?

I own one, but I don't have it yet and its very troubling to think that I might not have what I want once in hand.
The SGS-160 is the reason I had been following A51 for many months...I just assumed that each release would/should get better.
And damn now there's a load of new models coming soon.

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JJ43, if you are at all concerned with what the XGS can do, look at this thread:
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/783873-multis-area-51-xgs-190-a.html
Multipass is a credible member here on the boards and has shared his lovely grows with us.
He will put forth an honest and trustworthy assessment of the XGS's flowering capabilities.
Gaius is not a credible member here, but is an angry troll, who was banned from here once before.

Gaius said:

Did I bad mouth a51 somewhere? Show me where I did. I reported smaller than normal bud development with the XGS Than I had with 1000 watt of HPS... Hardly a fair comparison to begin with. So you A51 cronies around here need to calm down. I'm not now nor have ever trashed the light. I observed and theorized from a short personal test that the XGS may not be the better a51 light for flowering.

You can lay down the pitchforks and torches. My statement about smoking the other light comes directly from the efficiency specifications of CXA3070s. On paper, there is just no contest. And you can bet your pricey commercial panel that I'll be journaling the new light's progress.

Click to expand...

Im not trying to throw spears at you but seriously... a 190W light compared to a 1000W HPS is never going to work whether they say their footprint is 3x3 or not.. square peg round hole!

Bad Karma said:

I think I'll just call you Smurfette.
The only lights I've trashed are shitty ebay ones.
You can try to put words in my mouth, but it didn't work last time, and it won't work this time.

I don't work for A51 in any capacity.
EH and I go back a few years, he helped me out after Fero (BC) screwed me on a light.
I ordered, paid, and they failed to deliver anything, except for empty promises.
EH found out, stepped up, and hooked me up with a light at a great price.
I'm a loyal and satisfied customer who's provided proof of what LED's are capable of.

You continue to try and plant seeds of doubt about the XGS with comments like "it's a great vegger".
It is more than a "great vegger", which you would have found out, if you would have used it right.
Comments that you can see are effecting members like JJ43, making him questioning his purchase.



JJ43, if you are at all concerned with what the XGS can do, look at this thread:
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/783873-multis-area-51-xgs-190-a.html
Multipass is a credible member here on the boards and has shared his lovely grows with us.
He will put forth an honest and trustworthy assessment of the XGS's flowering capabilities.
Gaius is not a credible member here, but is an angry troll, who was banned from here once before.

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Who sounds angry here? Troll? Banned? What is this guy even talking about? You sound like you picked up the wrong pipe by accident.

Anyhow look at all the red light in the room with multipass's grow. Show me someone using only a single xgs with dense flowers and I'll be more impressed. Looks like Captain Morgan is adding red light to his XGS as well.

And so the truth comes out. You are long time friends with the owner of area 51 and you've received some special treatment. No surprise there.

I'm not angry Bud. I'm honest. The XGS needs more red light to be an effective flowering light. Why do you think area 51 is going back to white+red? All I've ever said was that the light needed more red, and that the SGS is going to be the better of the two units for flowering because of this.

Get your mind back to reality here. And stop talking nonsense.

hmmmm,the led affiliate program....im starting to see whats going on here.

midgetaus said:

Im not trying to throw spears at you but seriously... a 190W light compared to a 1000W HPS is never going to work whether they say their footprint is 3x3 or not.. square peg round hole!

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No worries midget. I never claimed it was fair. Look back at my posts all saying exactly that. I only said that I didn't think it was enough by itself to get a solid flowering run out of a 3x3.

Until I see someone take a 3x3 + solo XGS and get a good yield, then I can't recommend it as good buy for flowering based on my experience with it.

The better option for a 3x3 would be 2 SGSs, which runs about a grand. If you can solder, you can easily build your own 480watt COB panel for about $700 and a couple nights of your time. Every part easily replaceable, upgradeable, and totally customizable.