I have a question about roots...

missnu

Well-Known Member
I see people finishing large plants in a 3 gallon pot, but I have average sized plants that the roots get constricted in 3 gallon pots and I was wondering if it is because almost as soon as the seedling sprouts it's true leaves I move it into the 3 gallon...? Does that make it grow more roots then it needs? That is the only difference I see between me and these other people. I want to finish in a 3 gallon, or rather anything smaller than 7 gallons. but my roots outgrow that space before they are done...so should I maybe transplant a few times before settling them in the 3 gallons? Would moving up pot size gradually make the roots and leaves grow at a more equal rate? All in all what do I need to do to finish a plant in a 3 gallon container?
 

ismokealotofpot

New Member
start your sprout. then put it in a 4"by4" pot but only fill it half way. let the seedling grow up to the top and fill in soil as needed.so now you have a full 4by 4 inch pot. it can grow in that for 8 weeks. ive grown three foot tall plants in a one gallon pot. just don't pot up as much. one more thing if your roots grow out of control just pull the plant out bust off some of the soil and trim the roots with sharp scissors. or you can try a three gallon smart pot. the smart pots air prune the roots.
 

missnu

Well-Known Member
Ok. Thanks...I just see people with these monster plants in like 3 gallon containers, and my plants suffer if I leave them in a 3 gallon...I want big plants in a 3 gallon pot dammit!
 

Brick Top

New Member
A 3-gallon pot is to small for a large cannabis plant. Plants try to keep a more or less equal amount of growth in plant mass and above soil growth mass. Of course the two look very different, but in overall mass, if allowed, a plant will try to have as close to an equal amount of each.

So basically, imagine one of those large plants you want to grow, or even your own plants, turned upside down and all the above soil parts trying to be crammed into a 3-gallon pot, along of course with dirt. It would be a rather tight fit, wouldn't it? Sort of like sticking 3-pounds of baloney into a 2-pouns skin.

If you don't want to go all the way up to 7-gallon pots, like I normally use, then go to 5-gallon pots.


About your question as to would putting seedlings in larger pots versus smaller containers and increasing them make a difference and could it be part of what you are talking about in general.

I don't know about you but I don't know of a bigger sized pot being used by anyone than the planet earth I'd say that's a pretty big pot, wouldn't you? And why are the biggest plants grown outdoors if they need to be started in tiny containers and then bumped up in size and then bumped up in size and then bumped up in size? View attachment 2005004




Since the pot size/earth size hold a plant back then what might the difference be? Growing conditions/environment, things like lighting play a pretty big part in growing as does genetics.

Did you ever think that the difference in the success of others using undersized pots and your inability to match them, also using undersized pots, might be found elsewhere than the pot size?
 

ismokealotofpot

New Member
just vedg them longer it will be ok.i grew a 7 footer in a five gallon I had to lay it on top of my other plants like a natural scrog.the only problem with a air pot or smart pot is you can support the plant or move them around. im trying to finish every thing out at under 40 inches now. just picked up a hortilux blue yesterday it should set my node spacing nice and tight.
 

missnu

Well-Known Member
A 3-gallon pot is to small for a large cannabis plant. Plants try to keep a more or less equal amount of growth in plant mass and above soil growth mass. Of course the two look very different, but in overall mass, if allowed, a plant will try to have as close to an equal amount of each.

So basically, imagine one of those large plants you want to grow, or even your own plants, turned upside down and all the above soil parts trying to be crammed into a 3-gallon pot, along of course with dirt. It would be a rather tight fit, wouldn't it? Sort of like sticking 3-pounds of baloney into a 2-pouns skin.

If you don't want to go all the way up to 7-gallon pots, like I normally use, then go to 5-gallon pots.


About your question as to would putting seedlings in larger pots versus smaller containers and increasing them make a difference and could it be part of what you are talking about in general.

I don't know about you but I don't know of a bigger sized pot being used by anyone than the planet earth I'd say that's a pretty big pot, wouldn't you? And why are the biggest plants grown outdoors if they need to be started in tiny containers and then bumped up in size and then bumped up in size and then bumped up in size? View attachment 2005004




Since the pot size/earth size hold a plant back then what might the difference be? Growing conditions/environment, things like lighting play a pretty big part in growing as does genetics.

Did you ever think that the difference in the success of others using undersized pots and your inability to match them, also using undersized pots, might be found elsewhere than the pot size?



That is kind of my question...I have a small plant that needs a huge pot...Is there something I am doing w
wrong that is causing me to have more below the soil growth? I know I am new at this and not very good...but I just notice I go through pots faster than other people seem to..

This plant is only 14 in. from the top of the soil to the top of the plant, and it is 18 in across in span, but I just had to transplant it into a 7 gallon pot...it had totally outgrown the 3 gallon...I just feel like I have lots of roots and not a whole lot of plant...so what mistake does a person make that causes this? I mean hey there is a great chance I have made it--am making it---but what are the possibilities? Whatever I grow is just for me, so it isn't a big deal other then this is something I would like to be good at...if that makes sense. Getting anything off a plant I have grown just makes me feel nice, be it tomatoes, or brussels sprouts, or pot...hell I get excited when a forgotten onion sprouts in the bin...lol.


2012-01-16_17-39-29_453.jpg2012-01-11_15-38-41_305.jpg2012-01-18_14-08-47_949.jpg2012-01-16_17-41-02_45.jpg

so 14 in high, 18 across, but needs a 7 gallon pot...why?
 

roidrage152

Active Member
In my experience, my plants roots will fill any container well before it stops growing. I have a friend who bumped from 5 gallon, to 10 gallon, to 15 gallon, and he is thinking of going up even more, though I advised against it. I beleive there is a big discrepency between when the roots fill the container to the edges, and being truely root-bound. I get roots coming through the drain holes quite a while before it seems like my plants want to stop getting bigger. I think the true indicator of when you really need to transplant is when your plants growth slows down noticably. Obviously you want to get an idea of about what size that is, and transplant before that happens once you know approx. the size.
 

ismokealotofpot

New Member
if i transplant from a 1 gallon pot to a five then flower rite away the roots barely fill the pot. i think its best to not give nutrients after a transplant for at least a week so the roots will grow looking for the nutrients.
 

missnu

Well-Known Member
Would watering more frequently keep the roots a little more in check maybe? I mean if the medium was wetter all around they wouldn't have to branch as far to get water and what not correct?
 
What are you using for a soil/soil-less medium? In my experience I have found it really depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how you're trying to do it. For example, I love hydro but also like the benefits of soil-less. I use a mix of coco, perelite, vermiculite, and happy frog. It is extremely light and airy, holding onto just enough moisture to get the plant through till the next watering period. I water once or twice a day, letting everything drain out the bottom. Sort of like a hand fed ebb and flow. Long story short The roots have almost the entire space inside the pot to grow into. Doing it this way, the largest pots I've used had a 12" opening, and I found I didn't need it to be that big. I currently have a 2.5 foot plant in the middle of flowering that has been FIM'd, lst'd, and supercropped and is doing perfectly fine in a 10" pot. I also have some smaller plants in flower that are roughly a foot tall in only a red party cup. The party cup plants I'm growing with only one large main cola in mind, where as the larger plant currently has 4 main colas, and many side and popcorn buds as well. It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish, and what you're working with. Hopefully this helps in some way lol :)
 

missnu

Well-Known Member
Well it just seems that I have small plants with lots and lots of roots...I put the dimensions and a pic of the one that is troubling me..it is 4 weeks in flower and was in a 3 gallon pot, but it started to look pale and sad...with some of the newer growth twisting around a little and I was having to water it all the time because the roots were totally out of room and is just seems to me that a plant that size would not need that many roots, so perhaps waiting until the soil totally dries before watering again is not the best idea for me. That is what I have been doing, and the plant is healthy for sure. It just has far more roots then I would think it needs to upkeep the size of the plant. I mean the roots were one giant mass inside the 3 gallon, and it just looked with that many roots the plant itself would be a little larger...
 
Upon closer look at your pictures, I may have a solution. I would try this with one plant and see how you like the results, I by all means don't claim to know everything and I learn new stuff everyday, but I've had great results with my plants so far so take it with a grain of salt lol :) In my opinion you are in need of a good pruning. I can see some dead/dying/yellow leaves in the pictures. Cut them off. Any portion of a leaf that is dead, prune. If it's just a portion of the leaf, cut off just that part if it's less than 50% of the leaf. If it's equal or over 50% remove the entire leaf. If a leaf is cause shade over a bud site, remove leaves until that bud site has direct light. This should help with not only your root issues, but your growing issues, as well as provide a larger yield. Again, don't take this a law and perhaps try with just one plant first, but I do this with every plant and love the results.

As far as I know, the reason this would help is as follows. This explanation is of course not meant to be scientifically correct, just simplified and understandable. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken!

When our plants are damaged, they concentrate energy energy on repairing (leaves, stems) or protecting (bud, seeds) the damaged area. This we know and is the reason lst and hst techniques work.

We also know that the damage caused by many of the issues are plants may face is permanent. Simply looking at any of the "Plant symptom check lists" available online will confirm this as many state the damage won't ever be repaired, but to watch for new growth.

The root system provides a majority of nutrients needed by the plant. The more nutrients the plant requires, the larger and quicker the root system grows to accommodate the needs of the plant.

When dead, dying, or damaged foliage is present, the plant is constantly trying to repair it. We know it's will to survive is so strong it will grow opposite sex reproductive organs just to insure it's survival (turning hermie).

In nature, it has to deal with fluctuating temperatures, humidity, light levels, insects, animals, pollution, humans, etc etc. So it grows tons and tons of leaves, stems, roots, bud/flower sites etc and has the entire ground in which to grow it's root system constantly searching for water and nutrients. All this in an effort to lessen the odds of eradication in the event one of the previous issues arises. Obviously in a controlled environment, all those extra leaves, stems, and roots, aren't needed and we are allowed the ability to use them to our advantage.

Assuming everything I just listed is correct, it follows that any many damaged or dead leaves, especially those with over 50% damage rate, will never recover to be vibrant green healthy leaves. Yet the plants' will to survive will not let it just stop trying to fix those areas. Basically they will become a constant drain of energy and resources. To cope with the constant drain the root system must increase in volume. If the water, nutrients, and space aren't available to accommodate the increased root mass, root bind, out growing the pot, stunted growth and other issues may arise ergo a smaller, thicker, lush plant with a massive root support structure. Pruning damaged areas and unnecessary growth will in theory allow the plant to use a small amount of additional energy to "cap off" the cut area, and then re-direct that energy towards growth or bud production depending on what stage your plant is in, instead of constantly sending more and more energy towards a damaged area that will never recover enough to be beneficial.

Think of the human body. If you're working on a project and get a small cut on your arm, you spend some time cleaning and dressing the wound, bandage it up, and continue working. Little down time and energy is directed towards the damaged area. On the other hand if while working on a project you break your arm in 4 places, obviously considerably more time and energy is devoted to the damaged area, even though the Dr. tells you you many never have full finger movement again. In a humans case you hope for the best, and try to heal. Our plants do the same although unlike us, they have the benefit of being able to grow new "arms" or "fingers", which they try to do anyways while also trying to support the broken arm/fingers. If we remove the damaged arm/fingers the energy is redirected. With time and practice we are able to utilize these feature to our benefit resulting in healthier faster growing plants and increased yield.

I really hope this all makes sense and helps you out. Like I said before I do not claim to be an expert, nor am I trying to explain this scientifically. This is what I've done with any plants I've grown every since my first grow years ago in which I was to worried and nervous to prune or mess with the plant much and upon seeing the end results of that first grow, was convinced that things could be improved. Never looked back and my ladies love it. Hope this helps! :)
 
Sorry about spelling/grammar issues. I normally have decent grammar but my brain was moving faster than I could type and I wanted to make sure I posted as soon as possible for you :)
 
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