How to delineate growing experience from the typicall 2 yr "master"

Chronicseeker · Jul 2, 2012

BeaverHuntr said:
You know there will be a shit load of dispensary owners in it for the " get rich quick" and there will be a small handful of owners in it for the long haul. It's basic business and retarded to think there wont be a lot of people trying to get rich quick. Legitimate business's break rules here and there all the time. You think I'm making this shit up? You have first hand knowledge that the MMJ scene here in AZ wont have people breaking the rules? Using Bill Hayes by your example is contradicting yourself too. Just look at all the loop holes the compassion clubs are operating on, illustrious Jan Brewer seems to be cracking down on that too.

Get rich quick will not work here, if you plan on selling hundreds of imported pounds in the first months and using that money to fight your legal battles I do not think there will be much profit left over. You say get rich quick dispensaries... How does that even work, make money and then run? If you loose your operational certificate it will be due to lack of funds or illicit activities. Both of these instances leave very little room for financial gain, lol.. Lack of funds means not enough money to run your business and illicit activities are normally accompanied by state and federal lawsuits.

I understand Get Rich Quick as in $400 + per ounce for the fist few years while you have the better product, but it is still playing by they rules..

How is the B Hayes argument contradictory? The example was used to show that when you are fighting for something you cannot be illegally involved with that activity... i.e dispensary owners cannot run a business illegally in AZ and appear legit, too much oversight here.

What do you mean nobody is cracking down on the CCs, all compassion clubs that been raided were raided by local PD.... No FED involvement except maybe one in Tempe. That order is from our politicians/ Attorney General.

BeaverHuntr · Jul 2, 2012

Chronicseeker said:
Get rich quick will not work here, if you plan on selling hundreds of imported pounds in the first months and using that money to fight your legal battles I do not think there will be much profit left over. You say get rich quick dispensaries... How does that even work, make money and then run? If you loose your operational certificate it will be due to lack of funds or illicit activities. Both of these instances leave very little room for financial gain, lol.. Lack of funds means not enough money to run your business and illicit activities are normally accompanied by state and federal lawsuits.

I understand Get Rich Quick as in $400 + per ounce for the fist few years while you have the better product, but it is still playing by they rules..

How is the B Hayes argument contradictory? The example was used to show that when you are fighting for something you cannot be illegally involved with that activity... i.e dispensary owners cannot run a business illegally in AZ and appear legit, too much oversight here.

What do you mean nobody is cracking down on the CCs, all compassion clubs that been raided were raided by local PD.... No FED involvement except maybe one in Tempe. That order is from our politicians/ Attorney General.

You seem very optomistic about your future endeavors. enjoy.

irieie · Jul 2, 2012

Most compassion clubs that got busted had additional back story that made them targets. Azcs had 900 fucking plants! Acc was another mess. And as for the one in Tempe raided by the feds, they were targeting the director who was notorious for not playing by the rules in Cali. He was also dispensing and writing recs. There are quite a few clubs operating with no problems.

BeaverHuntr · Jul 2, 2012

irieie said:
Most compassion clubs that got busted had additional back story that made them targets. Azcs had 900 fucking plants! Acc was another mess. And as for the one in Tempe raided by the feds, they were targeting the director who was notorious for not playing by the rules in Cali. He was also dispensing and writing recs. There are quite a few clubs operating with no problems.

AZCS was stupid too.. I dont know how many people they would let in their facility for a "tour" and then the "tourists" would post the video on facebook. AZCS tried to use every loop hole imaginable until they stepped on the wrong toe.

irieie · Jul 2, 2012

And let's not forget about Alan Sobol and the 2811 story.

Chronicseeker · Jul 2, 2012

BeaverHuntr said:
You seem very optomistic about your future endeavors. enjoy.

I just think its unfair for people to have the agenda you suggested, attempting to profit illegally at the expense of others attempting to bring legitimacy to the industry.
It only ultimately affects the patients.
No program everyone goes back to being at risk. It not ethical to overlook that aspect..

One does not need to be optimistic about legitimate business practices. If the program stays the smart ones will find out how to make money legally, as in any successful/ longstanding business.
The profiteers will only pave the way for program regulations like those seen in CT. No patients/caregivers can grow and established pharmacies will delineate medicine, there will be no dispensary fronts.

Chronicseeker · Jul 2, 2012

BeaverHuntr said:
AZCS was stupid too.. I dont know how many people they would let in their facility for a "tour" and then the "tourists" would post the video on facebook. AZCS tried to use every loop hole imaginable until they stepped on the wrong toe.

AZDHS wants the open door policy, actually they expect it... Importing product is not even considered a loophole in the rules, crossing state lines is serious ish..

irieie · Jul 2, 2012

This ain't Connecticut and it never will be. I grew up in that part of the country. This is still very much the wild west and regulation while seemly tight is nothing compared to what the do in the northeast. Different politics and almost a different Zeitgeist altogether.

BeaverHuntr · Jul 2, 2012

Chronicseeker said:
I just think its unfair for people to have the agenda you suggested, attempting to profit illegally at the expense of others attempting to bring legitimacy to the industry.
It only ultimately affects the patients.
No program everyone goes back to being at risk. It not ethical to overlook that aspect..

One does not need to be optimistic about legitimate business practices. If the program stays the smarties will find out how to make money legally, as in any successful/ longstanding business.
The profiteers will only pave the way for program regulations like those seen in CT. No patients/caregivers can grow and established pharmacies will delineate medicine, there will be no dispensary fronts.

I agree I think it's unfair too but you know what greed can do to a man...I'm just giving my opinion on how the dispensaries will look like for the first couple of years. Just my opinion, I'm not a fortune teller.

BeaverHuntr · Jul 2, 2012

irieie said:
This ain't Connecticut and it never will be. I grew up in that part of the country. This is still very much the wild west and regulation while seemly tight is nothing compared to what the do in the northeast. Different politics and almost a different Zeitgeist altogether.

God damn truth..

irieie · Jul 2, 2012

Chronicseeker said:
AZDHS wants the open door policy, actually they expect it... Importing product is not even considered a loophole in the rules, crossing state lines is serious ish..

Yes it is a clear violation of federal law. The fed government's constitutional basis for the regulation of controlled substances is based on the commerce clause. If the state condoned such actions they would have serious problems from the feds.

Chronicseeker · Jul 2, 2012

BeaverHuntr said:
I agree I think it's unfair too but you know what greed can do to a man...I'm just giving my opinion on how the dispensaries will look like for the first couple of years. Just my opinion, I'm not a fortune teller.

I just dont think those activities will last a few years, if there are too many violations if the first few months, the program will be in jeopardy..
I could not have said it better, we are not fortune tellers but businesses operating in compliance do not need their fortune told because their operation should be sound.

personified · Jul 5, 2012

Me as a grower could easily tell if you know waht your doing or not. I could show you 4 pics ask you to define the nute problem and resolution. Mostly I would look for growers that do real dirt. Not someone who can just measure ferts for soiless and hydro. In my opinion following a nute schedual is not a skill.

The next questions off the top of the head and quickly that they will need to know are:
Temp and RH
Natural pH up and down and why.
Light Spectrum
What to put into a soil and what each item accomplishes
Define bacteria and fungi
How to compost properly
List different Methods of growing such as SOG, SCROG, JOG, FIM, LST
In addition they would need knowledge in Hydro - ebb and flow, NFT, and DWC
Grow room design and calculations would also be necessary

If they get that far I would then start asking some real questions!!

Bird Gymnastics · Jul 5, 2012

personified said:
Me as a grower could easily tell if you know waht your doing or not. I could show you 4 pics ask you to define the nute problem and resolution. Mostly I would look for growers that do real dirt. Not someone who can just measure ferts for soiless and hydro. In my opinion following a nute schedual is not a skill.

The next questions off the top of the head and quickly that they will need to know are:
Temp and RH
Natural pH up and down and why.
Light Spectrum
What to put into a soil and what each item accomplishes
Define bacteria and fungi
How to compost properly
List different Methods of growing such as SOG, SCROG, JOG, FIM, LST
In addition they would need knowledge in Hydro - ebb and flow, NFT, and DWC
Grow room design and calculations would also be necessary

If they get that far I would then start asking some real questions!!

Aren't those all basic "organic" gardening skills? Maybe I am smarter then I think but to me, all those statements/and or questions you made are basic horticultural skills. I think it comes down to actual breeding, genetics and quality time spent with the girls. I think everyone has missed the big picture in the law...it has to be from seed-harvest....meaning you can't get clones

irieie · Jul 5, 2012

personified said:
Me as a grower could easily tell if you know waht your doing or not. I could show you 4 pics ask you to define the nute problem and resolution. Mostly I would look for growers that do real dirt. Not someone who can just measure ferts for soiless and hydro. In my opinion following a nute schedual is not a skill.

The next questions off the top of the head and quickly that they will need to know are:
Temp and RH
Natural pH up and down and why.
Light Spectrum
What to put into a soil and what each item accomplishes
Define bacteria and fungi
How to compost properly
List different Methods of growing such as SOG, SCROG, JOG, FIM, LST
In addition they would need knowledge in Hydro - ebb and flow, NFT, and DWC
Grow room design and calculations would also be necessary

If they get that far I would then start asking some real questions!!

That is all info someone would learn from reading rollitup for hours and hours. Kind of like a higher education :wink:

. None of that is very marijuana specific. Talk is cheap. Anyone taken seriously should have something to show their success like a bag of buds or pics from their grow. I think a large detail which would need to be addressed is whether or not someone could run a production system and harvest perpetual efficiently and reliably. Being able to grow a few plants to harvest is one thing, running an entire system that consistently produces quality and weight on a weekly, biweekly,
o monthly basis is a different kind of animal.

Chronicseeker · Jul 5, 2012

Bird Gymnastics said:
Aren't those all basic "organic" gardening skills? Maybe I am smarter then I think but to me, all those statements/and or questions you made are basic horticultural skills. I think it comes down to actual breeding, genetics and quality time spent with the girls. I think everyone has missed the big picture in the law...it has to be from seed-harvest....meaning you can't get clones

Dispensaries can obtain genetics in cut form but there needs to be a paper trail, Same with outsourced medicine.... Rules state so..
Where the cut originated from/ the individuals name card number etc is just the beginning of the required info. Avoiding these fillings will cause issues with the health department ultimately jeapordizing a business' operating license.

I agree w/ bird, I think the packages that are accompanied with a grower is what makes them stand out. Hopefully the owners know what to look for in medical-grade samples.

BeaverHuntr · Jul 5, 2012

irieie said:
That is all info someone would learn from reading rollitup for hours and hours. Kind of like a higher education . None of that is very marijuana specific. Talk is cheap. Anyone taken seriously should have something to show their success like a bag of buds or pics from their grow. I think a large detail which would need to be addressed is whether or not someone could run a production system and harvest perpetual efficiently and reliably. Being able to grow a few plants to harvest is one thing, running an entire system that consistently produces quality and weight on a weekly, biweekly,
o monthly basis is a different kind of animal.

I could have answered most of those questions the first time I read Jorge Cervnates grow bible..

Lucius Vorenus · Jul 5, 2012

A good grower does not need to be a breeder. IMO many great growers do not breed.

A person with 10-12 harvests under their belt is going to have a pretty healthy amount of knowledge of growing. Especially if those harvest were 12+ plants. The only thing that a commercial grower is that he has done the same on a larger scale.

I encourage folks to hire people who grow quality herb by sampling their product and most importantly, making sure they are professional and will NOT work for peanuts. I'm always leary of anyone who is willing to work for nothing.

Bird Gymnastics · Jul 6, 2012

Lucius Vorenus said:
A good grower does not need to be a breeder. IMO many great growers do not breed.

A person with 10-12 harvests under their belt is going to have a pretty healthy amount of knowledge of growing. Especially if those harvest were 12+ plants. The only thing that a commercial grower is that he has done the same on a larger scale.

I encourage folks to hire people who grow quality herb by sampling their product and most importantly, making sure they are professional and will NOT work for peanuts. I'm always leary of anyone who is willing to work for nothing.

I know a friend who probably has 100 harvests under his belt. Unfortunately he has never grown in anything bigger then a closet. Just because of his experience doesn't mean he will have the ability to run and fully sustain a commercial type grow. The reason behind breeding is almost every business plan has a goal. If their goal is to be the best and ultimately run 'everything' then genetics and breeders are going to play a HUGE role. People get tired of the same old genetics and are always wanting something a little 'better'. In order to keep the same medicinal values and to create something better, you are going to have to have the knowledge to breed. That being said, the dispensaries that are still around and operating legally all have at least developed one of their own strains or have growers hired under that disoensary doing the breeding for them. But my point is, at some time you are going to have to have something to set you aside from the others and honestly IMO genetics are the most important.

Sorry just on my phone writing this

I can elaborate more if you have questions lol

Snow602 · Jul 6, 2012

Bird Gymnastics said:
I know a friend who probably has 100 harvests under his belt. Unfortunately he has never grown in anything bigger then a closet. Just because of his experience doesn't mean he will have the ability to run and fully sustain a commercial type grow. The reason behind breeding is almost every business plan has a goal. If their goal is to be the best and ultimately run 'everything' then genetics and breeders are going to play a HUGE role. People get tired of the same old genetics and are always wanting something a little 'better'. In order to keep the same medicinal values and to create something better, you are going to have to have the knowledge to breed. That being said, the dispensaries that are still around and operating legally all have at least developed one of their own strains or have growers hired under that disoensary doing the breeding for them. But my point is, at some time you are going to have to have something to set you aside from the others and honestly IMO genetics are the most important.

Sorry just on my phone writing this I can elaborate more if you have questions lol

I am really intrested to know more on why genetics are so important I understand what you are saying but also touching on genetics can be a hit and miss when it comes to the real goal which I would think is trying to help people with different illness cope with their pain, fatigue, nausea, etc. I mean no disrespect I am just saying IMO if your friend only grew some SD, Widow Berry, and JH and was damn good at it I think he could do well for himself especially if he knows his stuff I mean there are very basic people out there that just want their pain to go away they dont really care whats new and my guess would be it might be older folks that have the cards as well as younger folks. I mean my wife that has Fibro, RA, Lupis, Arthritis,RLS.. I mean she wouldnt care if you said OG master kush compared to Phoenix suns or ATF she would just want it to wok . From what I found those meds (JH and SD) have proven to work with other patients if they work at helping her just a little bit I think she wouldnt be so worried about new genetics but focusing on what made her feel better to have a least have a semi normal day with the least amount of pain. Again all my opinion

How to delineate growing experience from the typicall 2 yr "master"

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Active Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Member