Here is why you are not voting for Obama

TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
desertrat said:
i really don't know where to start, but i'l give it the old college try.

first, for almost all of the "middle class" a capital gains tax would be offset by government transfers of wealth to the middle class. like your national health insurance for example. like an education credit. the middle class is a net tax beneficiary because they have the political pull to make it so.
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I really don't want National Health Insurance. I'm perfectly happy with being allowed to determine how my money is spent. I'd be a lot happier if taxes were a lot lower.

second, raising the cap gain rate has no effect on dividends. dividends are normal income to the irs. raising the cap gains rate will make people and companies defer their gains and move investments into tax shelters. it will slow economic growth and shift dollars to unproductive investments (read green), but it won't affect dividends except to increase them.
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Capital gain distributions, also called capital gain dividends, are paid to you or credited to your account by mutual funds and real estate investment trusts. They will be shown in box 2a of Form 1099-DIV you receive from the mutual fund or REIT. Report capital gain distributions as long-term capital gains regardless of how long you owned your shares in the mutual fund or REIT.

So, we're both partially right...

Though you are right about dividends being taxed as normal income.

I still don't like the idea of increased capital gains tax for the distortion of the markets it causes.

third, taxes aren't immoral, people are. taxing for essential government services (read up on what a public good is) is not immoral as it is the only feasible way to pay for public goods. things like breathable air. but immoral people take advantage of the power of government to expand it into areas it has no business in.

why does every repub seem to think if you are not a repub you are a liberal. the repub party is too liberal for me. jc
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Essential Government Services mostly can be handled at a State or Local level (which really is where they belong)

I never accused you of being Liberal, of course, I never said I saw with you eye to eye either.
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desertrat

desertrat

Well-Known Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
desertrat said:
i really don't know where to start, but i'l give it the old college try.

I really don't want National Health Insurance. I'm perfectly happy with being allowed to determine how my money is spent. I'd be a lot happier if taxes were a lot lower.

Capital gain distributions, also called capital gain dividends, are paid to you or credited to your account by mutual funds and real estate investment trusts. They will be shown in box 2a of Form 1099-DIV you receive from the mutual fund or REIT. Report capital gain distributions as long-term capital gains regardless of how long you owned your shares in the mutual fund or REIT.

So, we're both partially right...

Though you are right about dividends being taxed as normal income.

I still don't like the idea of increased capital gains tax for the distortion of the markets it causes.

Essential Government Services mostly can be handled at a State or Local level (which really is where they belong)

I never accused you of being Liberal, of course, I never said I saw with you eye to eye either.
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i just had an epiphany - you are an opinionated jack ass. seriously, why are we debating the finer points of libertarianism when the barbarians are at the gate?

vote libertarian and make your vote really count
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desertrat

desertrat

Well-Known Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
To determine if we want to throw each other over the wall to the barbarians or not, of course :-)
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i'll bring a ladder so you can comfortably climb over the wall. i am, after all, a kinder and gentler kind of conservative. i'll even pay for the blindfold.


stay real. try not to punch out your friends.
 
jabrown3

jabrown3

Active Member
The Brutal Truth...

Our key philosophy is that everyone is created equal, and thus everyone should be taxed at the same rate and treated the same by the government with out any special perks. That there is a role for government that is a very limited in scope, and is not nearly as intrusive as the current government. We believe that the best government is the government which governs the least.

LOOK UP COMMUNISM IN THE DICTIONARY.

america is based on the ideology of the freedom to do what you can with your life.. not just live off of what is given to you. you cant combine small government(conservatism) with identical taxes, freedoms, etc(communism)

whats the REAL brutal truth?
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Brown, you are delusional

Communism is a system that dictates stealing from the most productive members of a society to give to the least, so that everyone "produces according to their abilities, and takes according to their needs"

The key tenants of Marx were a heavily progressive income tax system (2) and the destruction of any rights of inheritance (3). He also was for a centralized education system (10).

The forced de-urbanization of the cities, and forcing people to live on the land. He wanted to place everything under the control of "the people" and failed to account for the fact that power corrupts.

Communism is the exact opposite of Capitalism and is identical to Fascism in its scope, with the only difference being that Communism wants people to look forward towards a "glorious future" that never arrives while as fascism wants people to look at a "glorious past" that can never be reached.

About the only thing that would be worse than Communism or Fascism is a Fundamentalist Government (Religious or Environmentalist).

Brown, you need to go and study your history, before claiming to understand what a system stands for or doesn't.

Communism for identical taxes, my ass.

Go back to worshipping at the feet of Mao, Marx, Lenin and Stalin, because maybe they will come back from the dead when Communism matches the description you are giving.
 
VTXDave

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
Garden Knowm said:
I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight..... * If you
grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're 'exotic,
different.' * Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential
American story. * If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic
Muslim. * Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you're a maverick. *
Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable. * Attend 5 different
small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded. * If you spend 3
years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of
the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000
new voters, spe nd 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as
a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become
chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4
years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people
while
sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and
Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real
leadership experience. * If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on
the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people,
20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're
qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive. * If you
have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful
daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian. * If
you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured
wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian. * If you
teach teach children about sexual predators, you are irresponsible and eroding
the fiber of society. * If, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence
only, with no other option in sex education in
your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up
pregnant, you're very responsible. * If your wife is a Harvard graduate
laywer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the
betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family,
your family's values don't represent America's. * If you're
husband is nicknamed 'First Dude', with at least one DWI conviction and
no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was
a member of a group that hates America and advocated the secession of Alaska
from the USA, your family is extremely admirable. OK, much clearer now.
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Damn...I dun bin figgered out! :lol:
 
L

losthere

Active Member
That is all great. I dont give a fuck who is president! They are all empty suits selling us out to the highest bidder! They are all in it together! That said. Barack Huiessin Obama is the biggest fraud yet. The murder rate in Chicago exceededs that of the Iraq war this year. His "low income housing" in the ghetto of Chicago that was partnered with the nortoious Tony Rezko (who is facing 200 years in prison), is now shut down and borded up. What happend to the poor? Poor, that he represents, like his half brother who lives in Africa who lives on about $25 a year! WTF Mr. Obama is a fucking milionare!! Too much to kick down your poor half brother a bill here and there! Yeah..... the poor.
His fiscal policy is retarded in an economy that is hurting, as it is right now. If you have studied econmics at all you would know that his policies will just drive the ecnomy into the ground. He wants to increase the size of the government by 1/3 and increase government spending by trillions of $. Govenment doesnt have money it is just the money they are taking from me and you. If you taxing the rich or take money from people that are responsible for huge investments in the economy because they have the money, you then take their profit away, where is the incentive to invest money in many market driving investments, i.e. the place you work at or the store you like to buy shit from. With profit gone where is the incentive to produce? Gone! it would be better to sit back and let the government give you a check from the other people they are taking money from rather than work, or to have your money work for you, because they are going to take it from you. That effect would ripple throughout the economy, driving it to a grinding halt. ok so you take "ecess" money from the rich and give it to the poor, the rich already pay over 75% of the taxes that are collected, and you want more, you greedy piece of shit, go work your ass off and make money, hustle that scrilla do what ever it takes. Thats what they did. Note: Since when did money make every body happy and the answer to all your problems? There is more to life than $, get your head out of your ass. Mo money mo problems!
So now everybody has more money, everything will now cost more. And there will be less people producing goods, so there will be a shortage, and that will drive up prices too, and increase a relliance on goods from foreign countries, like lead tainted toys from China, and salmonella from Mexico. Sounds good to me!
You want money. There is a shit ton of it going to people who arent citizens of this great country. The last figure I am aware of is that the Sate of California spends $15 BILLION on benifits to non-citizens of the U.S. Other states spend tons of money on people who have no legal right to it. Why not spend that money on us. I am not saying deport all of them but take back our money that isnt even used on or for us. To top it all off the biggest cash crop to mexico is money sent back from people working in the U.S. sending back money to their families in mexico. These people fly the mexican flag in the U.S. proudly. If it wasnt for the U.S. these people would be back in some shit hole in mexico! This is money draining out of the U.S. economy.
Nationalized healthcare? Give me a break. You want the government telling you what doctor you have to see, what procedures you were able to have and when. You want them incharge of medical develepment, where they develop ways to control you and your thoughts! Laugh, go ahead, Hitler was trying to do it with the Jews!
Give me one government program, one government institution, one government anything that works, and works to the extent that you are happy with it. You are so qick to let the government run your life, what are you so dumb you cant to it yourself? I want the government out of everything and go back to doing what it was supposed to do, and protect its citizens and keep life safe in the U.S. and get the hell out of my life and give me back my money you thieves!
No politician is worth electing this year. This is about choosing the lesser evil this election, common sense will not let me vote for Barrack. Think a little bit and the world will be a way better place.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
losthere said:
That is all great. I dont give a fuck who is president! They are all empty suits selling us out to the highest bidder! They are all in it together! That said. Barack Huiessin Obama is the biggest fraud yet. The murder rate in Chicago exceededs that of the Iraq war this year. His "low income housing" in the ghetto of Chicago that was partnered with the nortoious Tony Rezko (who is facing 200 years in prison), is now shut down and borded up. What happend to the poor? Poor, that he represents, like his half brother who lives in Africa who lives on about $25 a year! WTF Mr. Obama is a fucking milionare!! Too much to kick down your poor half brother a bill here and there! Yeah..... the poor.
His fiscal policy is retarded in an economy that is hurting, as it is right now. If you have studied econmics at all you would know that his policies will just drive the ecnomy into the ground. He wants to increase the size of the government by 1/3 and increase government spending by trillions of $. Govenment doesnt have money it is just the money they are taking from me and you. If you taxing the rich or take money from people that are responsible for huge investments in the economy because they have the money, you then take their profit away, where is the incentive to invest money in many market driving investments, i.e. the place you work at or the store you like to buy shit from. With profit gone where is the incentive to produce? Gone! it would be better to sit back and let the government give you a check from the other people they are taking money from rather than work, or to have your money work for you, because they are going to take it from you. That effect would ripple throughout the economy, driving it to a grinding halt. ok so you take "ecess" money from the rich and give it to the poor, the rich already pay over 75% of the taxes that are collected, and you want more, you greedy piece of shit, go work your ass off and make money, hustle that scrilla do what ever it takes. Thats what they did. Note: Since when did money make every body happy and the answer to all your problems? There is more to life than $, get your head out of your ass. Mo money mo problems!
So now everybody has more money, everything will now cost more. And there will be less people producing goods, so there will be a shortage, and that will drive up prices too, and increase a relliance on goods from foreign countries, like lead tainted toys from China, and salmonella from Mexico. Sounds good to me!
You want money. There is a shit ton of it going to people who arent citizens of this great country. The last figure I am aware of is that the Sate of California spends $15 BILLION on benifits to non-citizens of the U.S. Other states spend tons of money on people who have no legal right to it. Why not spend that money on us. I am not saying deport all of them but take back our money that isnt even used on or for us. To top it all off the biggest cash crop to mexico is money sent back from people working in the U.S. sending back money to their families in mexico. These people fly the mexican flag in the U.S. proudly. If it wasnt for the U.S. these people would be back in some shit hole in mexico! This is money draining out of the U.S. economy.
Nationalized healthcare? Give me a break. You want the government telling you what doctor you have to see, what procedures you were able to have and when. You want them incharge of medical develepment, where they develop ways to control you and your thoughts! Laugh, go ahead, Hitler was trying to do it with the Jews!
Give me one government program, one government institution, one government anything that works, and works to the extent that you are happy with it. You are so qick to let the government run your life, what are you so dumb you cant to it yourself? I want the government out of everything and go back to doing what it was supposed to do, and protect its citizens and keep life safe in the U.S. and get the hell out of my life and give me back my money you thieves!
No politician is worth electing this year. This is about choosing the lesser evil this election, common sense will not let me vote for Barrack. Think a little bit and the world will be a way better place.
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Hey LostHere, can I quote you on my website?
:-)
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Obama was partnered with Tony Rezko??? Oh my God..! How rich!

No one will really know, no one will really care, though. Just as they've forgotten about the Keating Five. This IS the United States of Amnesia, after all.
desertrat said:
yes, obama is underqualified, palin is un qualified and biden and mccain are fossilized.

(insert your favoriate libertarian here) for president!!
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For me, that will absolutely not be Bob Barr. I've been a Lib since I first registered to vote on my 18th birthday, and, my my, how the party has changed.
VTXDave said:
I must've missed that election.
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:( Me, too. And I know I was registered. If I'd been asked I would have told our military to stay out of Afghanistan, too.
cleatis said:
In all fairness, OBL hung out a lot with GW, and daddy Bush even helped the guy out, not to mention that it was the republicans that put Saddam in power. So if you want to talk about hanging out with terrorists....
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:shock: Saddam was a terrorist? I thought he was a despot!
medicineman said:
I'm definently not proud of how my countries leaders act, either party, there May be a few exceptions, but the majority are as described above.
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Now, see, maybe this is part of the collective problem with Americans. They seem to see our elected REPRESENTATIVES as our leaders, instead of what they really are.
desertrat said:
well vi, since a good portion of the constitution's trouble has come from your favorite party perhaps you're now willing to vote libertarian. if you are not in a battleground state a protest vote is symbolic without influencing the election.

symbols matter.
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Ok, uh uh. Both parties have had a hand in this. This mess is absolutely not owned solely by the Republican party, by any stretch of the imagination, same with the Democratic party. They've both done their share and continue maintaining the status quo.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. The five senators, Alan Cranston (D-CA), Dennis DeConcini (D-AZ), John Glenn (D-OH), John McCain (R-AZ), and Donald W. Riegle (D-MI), were accused of improperly aiding Charles H. Keating, Jr., chairman of the failed Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, which was the target of an investigation by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB).
After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".
All five of the senators involved served out their terms. Only Glenn and McCain ran for re-election, and they were both re-elected.
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Strange... I don't think they discussed that in Highscool, and I would have been either just born or a few years old when that happened.

That's.... disturbing.
 
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