giving defoliation during flower a try

furnz

Well-Known Member
Totally false. For starts, the cot leaves will not pop the soil until the radicle is at least 4" long. Do the experiment.

There is no difference between the length of time it takes to hydrate a seed and bring it out of dormancy whether it's in a wet paper towel or soil. When it's in soil it gets off to a better start as a seedling...and that's the issue. A monkey can germinate a seed. It's what comes after that's the issue.

Oh, and based on your false claims of the 24 hour drill, what is the rush or is this another case of chest beating without anything to back it up?

You can try but you can't push plants. Folks do it all the time around here and fail.

UB
Hold back your tears and your ego for 1 second you narrow minded dipshit.
Don't be so upset that I get faster germ rates then you.
Real men can admit when they're wrong. Not just get angry and act like a teenage girl.

The only seeds I haven't had germ quite that quick is some garbage aurora indica seeds that I regret purchasing.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Only reason I use paper towel is to germinate the seed in 24hr rather than 1-2 weeks.
If it takes you 2 weeks to get a seedllng going, you got more problems than germinating a seed. ;)

See the Seedlings One Week Old paragraph - https://www.rollitup.org/t/spin-out-for-chemical-root-pruning.9114/

3 days and they already have their single leaves. That is the norm for my gardens. It's also the norm that due to the excellent health and vigor of my plants, they have to be flowered before 4 weeks from the time they popped the soil's surface or end up like 6' trees.

UB
 

furnz

Well-Known Member
I like how you didn't respond to my post previous.
Angry that you have no snark remarks or anyway to discredit that?
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Hold back your tears and your ego for 1 second you narrow minded dipshit.
Don't be so upset that I get faster germ rates then you.
Real men can admit when they're wrong. Not just get angry and act like a teenage girl.

The only seeds I haven't had germ quite that quick is some garbage aurora indica seeds that I regret purchasing.
Do the experiment, fuckup.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
OK, once again and off topic....I'll post my germination article.

Germinating Cannabis Seeds

Your seedlings will be alot better off if you germinate directly in soil - less handling and mechanical disturbance means less chance of physical damage to the plant's taproot (and roothairs) and less food reserves used to position itself due to the natural hormonal influence called Gravitropism. That translates into less food reserves used and increased seedling vigor, especially in the very early critical stages of seedling development.

This is my foolproof method for Cannabis Seed Germination in soil:

First, if harvesting seeds from my own crosses, I air-dry newly harvested seeds for a couple of weeks, and then store them in the refrigerator with a little rice. Cold-treatment seems to increase viability and germination rates, especially with indica-dom strains. I almost always get a 100% germination rate with quality seedstock.

Soak the seeds in plain water for 12 hours prior to planting to hydrate them, which will speed up germination. In general, good seeds will sink, bad seeds will remain floating (they contain air, not an embryo). I first sterilize seeds in a bleach solution (1 Tbsp. bleach/1 gallon of water) for 1/2 hour to kill any fungus residing on the seedcoat.

Sterilize enough *damp* fine soil with heat to germinate all of your seeds. You can do this by treating the damp soil to temps of (no more than) 200F for 20 mins in a conventional oven, or in a microwave oven on high for 2 minutes, while stirring a couple of times. Your goal is to get and hold the entire soil mix's temperature at 170F to 180F for about 20 minutes which can be monitored with a probe type thermometer. Let the mix cool thoroughly. This will insure that damp-off fungus spores have been killed in the soil mix. Make sure the soil mix is light and humusy (not real coarse). You can add a little sand or vermiculite to aid in drainage and weight.

Buy some white 20oz styrofoam "drinking glasses", commonly called "Styro-Cups", and punch holes in the bottom (and side bottom) for drainage. I use a red-hot ice pick for this. These containers are 6 1/2" tall and will allow ample room for the taproot to grow before cotyledon emergence which will increase your seedling's vigor. The taproot (radicle) is already at least 4" long at the point of emergence - don't restrict it (in order to maximize seedling growth rate). Styro-Cups can be found on the shelf displaying picnic items at your local grocery store.

Fill the pots almost to the top with your soil mix, water well to settle the mix, take a pencil and make a small hole about 1/4" to 1/2" deep, NO deeper, and drop *one* seed in. Cover the seed with *fine* soil, only enough to top up the hole, firm lightly with your finger, and lightly water until water runs freely thru the drain holes. Place in a warm spot around 80F/26C. Do NOT cover the cup with saran wrap or anything else. The seed has been hydrated from the soaking and will germinate soon. This container should not require further watering until the seedling is up and running.

During the first couple of days, mist the top soil surface lightly (if need be), never allowing the top to crust over, but not to the point that the medium stays waterlogged which will invite pythium rot (damp-off). "Less is more" at this point. Do NOT water this pot any more until the seedling is up, and only if it needs it at the point of emergence. Again, no need to cover with plastic wrap as the radicle (taproot) will grow at least 4" before the cotyledons emerge from the soil. IOW, even though you can't see it, the plant's root is seeking and finding moisture at the container's lower soil levels. I cannot emphasize this enough. The seedling will emerge anywhere from 2 to 10 days from the time you sowed it.

That's all to it! With good care, your faves will be ready to transplant within 1 to 2 weeks, and will easily slip out of the "cup" with a solid rootball that will never know it's been disturbed if potted up gently and quickly. Move up to a final pot of 3 to 5 gallons to sex and finish.

Good luck,
Uncle Ben
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Caveats I wrote to explain in botanical terms what's going on here:


The dormancy of a seed is determined by a fight between auxins and anti-auxins. It is with the proper conditions (warmth, moisture, etc.) that the auxins finally "win" and break the plant out of its embryonic dormant state. Now, there are other hormonal responses involved such as gravitropism which play a part in all of this. IOW, the affect of gravity on certain plant parts - foliage responds in opposition to the pull, root tissue responds in favor of it. So, if you hydrate a seed which does nothing more than speed up the germ process, and just before the seedcoat cracks sow it, it then stands the best chance of orienting itself due to the pull of gravity and using stored reserves in the germplasm (cotyledons) for maximum vigor and health. A "healthy" plant is strong enough to overcome some issues that could ruin its survival such as damp-off, caused by pythium and such.

It's a no-brainer, you don't check or fool with anything, you just soak the seed for about 12 hours until it sinks, sow it, and you're done. If it doesn't sink within 12 hours, you have an air pocket in place of a viable embryo. You probably don't want to take this chance with your treasured seed stock but you can apply pressure between your index finger and thumb on a seed and if it doesn't easily crush/collapse, then chances are almost 100% that it has an embryo, just waiting to pop out in all of its glory.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
This guy takes 10 days to germ seeds and he thinks he's worthy of writing articles on germination... :clap:
Who takes 10 days? I certainly don't and gave you a link and what to read.

My articles have been published all over the web, plagarized too, and Dutch seedbanks published my germ paper in the old days. Jorge Cervantes has published some of my stuff in his Bible.

Look, I'm gonna give you one more chance to shut-the-fuck up, save face, and then I'll ignore you like the other RIU fuckups which don't merit my time.

Jorge'sBookSigning.jpg
 
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furnz

Well-Known Member
"The seedling will emerge anywhere from 2 to 10 days from the time you sowed it."

Mine are out of the ground in less then 2 days. So good game.

You also say that paper towel is an xtra step, yet your the one microwaving soil. :P
 

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
Totally false. For starts, the cot leaves will not pop the soil until the radicle is at least 4" long. Do the experiment.

There is no difference between the length of time it takes to hydrate a seed and bring it out of dormancy whether it's in a wet paper towel or soil. When it's in soil it gets off to a better start as a seedling...and that's the issue. A monkey can germinate a seed. It's what comes after that's the issue.

Oh, and based on your false claims of the 24 hour drill, what is the rush or is this another case of chest beating without anything to back it up?

You can try but you can't push plants. Folks do it all the time around here and fail.

UB
Noooooo! I actually agree with Aunt B. You aren't getting a tap root and top in a few days......... And different strains start at different times.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I love how the 12 hour soak isn't included in the time.....
...and I love how some of you need to spin everything I write into something sinister. Says a lot about one's character....and motives.

I have old seeds that I made and they will usually take longer to germ than fresh but never more than a week. Even with my 15 year old crosses I usually get 100% germ rates....same with the folks I gift them to. I make great crosses and store them under perfect conditions.

You gotta be pretty stupid to be growing for a while and still be pissin' off your money on some pollen chucker. I haven't bought from a seedbank in at least 12 years and with all the mutts out there now sure as hell won't buy again.

UB
 
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Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
...and I love how some of you need to spin everything I write into something sinister.
Not just you. Many people here include times that aren't acurate because of other time not accounted for. I get seed germination in 2 to 7 days. I've done many different ways. Like soil. Not always the fastest. But after 2 weeks you can see the difference. And when I'm talking about someone in particular I use their name, the name I refer to them as, or responded to, like this..... Don't get so jumpy.
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
Hold back your tears and your ego for 1 second you narrow minded dipshit.
Don't be so upset that I get faster germ rates then you.
Real men can admit when they're wrong. Not just get angry and act like a teenage girl.

The only seeds I haven't had germ quite that quick is some garbage aurora indica seeds that I regret purchasing.
Never understood why *faster germ rates* Is anything but a moot point. Efficiency is all I want.
 

furnz

Well-Known Member
Never understood why *faster germ rates* Is anything but a moot point. Efficiency is all I want.
ef·fi·cien·cy
noun \i-ˈfi-shən-sē\
: the ability to do something or produce something without wasting materials, TIME, or energy : the quality or degree of being efficient ( technical )

Time and efficiency go hand and hand.
But my point was that I CAN germ and have seeds out of the soil that quick and uncle ben is just to narrow minded and has too much ego to admit when he's wrong.
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
ef·fi·cien·cy
oun \i-ˈfi-shən-sē\
: the ability to do something or produce something without wasting materials, TIME, or energy : the quality or degree of being efficient ( technical )

Time and efficiency go hand and hand.
But my point was that I CAN germ and have seeds out of the soil that quick and uncle ben is just to narrow minded and has too much ego to admit when he's wrong.
Let me be more clear. I only care about germ rate. If a seed is good it will germinate and tap in about 4 days give or take a day.

If the extra couple days is a big deal, efficiency might not be your problem; possibly crop rotation management.

I drop seeds in a cup of water and forget about them for a week. Even if they sprout in 24 I let them sit for a few days submerged.... not because its a superior method, but because Im lazy. I can pop seeds a week before you, wait til they have all popped and keep them somewhat dormant submerged...and still plant the same day as you... so is germing faster necessarily more eeffeciency? No.

Are you really good at giving seeds optimum conditions? Yes.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Does any of this really fucking matter!!! Paper towel, soil, it still grows, jeez!!! Never lost a seed in two years so why would I change? It seems to work very well for me and I've done it many different ways. And yes UB your wasting your time here with all these silly newbs! Time to move on before a stroke happens lol.
 
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