giving defoliation during flower a try

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Who cares about anthocyanins? I guess if you're selling to sucker bets with the hype that purple = potency or smooth taste or whatever....then that's what you do.

Regarding nutrition, you provide the plant with what it needs, which means, that a plant that is not bulking up much aka juvenile stage and later flowering, will need very little nutrition. You must adjust. Learn to read your plants.

If "flushing" (which is more bullshit started by the Dutch back in the 80's to atone for their fertilizer abuse in the first place) works for you, makes ya feel good, then go for it. It has no real world value. The plant is not like a radiator. What it uptakes, stays until used. If pissin' people off (the herd) because you go against some mis-given operational paradigm....so be it.

I'll tell ya what is a "given", the fact that most don't think. They connect stuff that should never be connected. Most times "it" has no relationship or cause/effect to what they want to believe. For example, any of you flushers ever thought that your caustic lung busting weed might be due to the terpenes, cannabanoids, flavanoids makeup in the plant tissue you're smoking? When I grow pot I treat it all the same. Some smokes smooth, some is so caustic you can only take light tokes.

So what do folks do? They follow the herd based on some god given forum script equating taste to nutes because "everyone does it". :) Every new crop of noobs will walk the same old road....it becomes their comfort zone because they're afraid, apprehensive, stepping off into new territory. If they have 15 years of regular gardening experience, they most likely won't....they know better.

Uncle Ben
 
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pandorasboxg

pandorasboxg

Active Member
that purple plant was royal kush btw. extremely low yeilder by genetics in my opinion. i continued to grow it for 2 years before giving up the smell/visual appeal/ quality kept me keeping a plant around. that strain always purpled under my led lights people got a kick out of it got tired of stinking up the neighborhood for low yeild smoking the last batch now mothers are already dead, wishing i didnt kill them but i think the summer got the best of them anyways
 
pandorasboxg

pandorasboxg

Active Member
first like i said growing is fine craft just like been and wine... ben when you enter your beer and wine into a competition one of the first things a judge does is look at the color and smells it, same with weed. i could spend my time getting the most for my dollar and get a basic crop that is well "basic" or i could put some time into my craft and trade to make sure quality is first. im not here emdorsing anybody in fact i didnt even disagree with ben. i just feel it can even be taken further than just simply staying green until harvest. would like to try is some of bens stuff and be proved wrong the right way...you here in wa man? i'[ll trade you?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Texas. Appreciate the offer, but I'm good.

My interests are broad too, have quite a few batches of new wines aging from my vineyard - merlot and whites, fino sherry too. Am also doing red and white wine vinegar and recently got into roasting my own coffee beans. Conical burr grinder should be in this week. That's as broad and complex as brewing the hundreds of style of beer. Get an original West Bend Poppery off ebay, some estate green beans, and learn the EASY art of making your own rich coffee. http://ineedcoffee.com/roasting-coffee-in-a-popcorn-popper/ I giggle like a little kid every time I fire this thing up and come out with perfect roasts.
 
DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
I installed a 12 bulb t5 ho with a mix of ati bulbs that should really show the colors real well. homemade coffee Now i am interested do tell more UB you can post on my thread how you do it if you have time bro.
 
pandorasboxg

pandorasboxg

Active Member
here is a strain a close buddy gave me/ pretty basic stuff subcool pollen of big bud & a female og kush/ the mother plant put out 8 oz under six hundred watt bulb. the first round i lollipoped and only got 2oz off a plant under 600w hps with 5 others.. this time i didnt and the results speak for themselves. im a month out from harvesting the branches have already started to break under their own weight. on the very bottom of the plant!!! high hopes for this strain. from start to finish its an easy one almost no trimming at harvest buds are rather naked before trim saving time at havest!!! point being this strain leaves no room for defoliation period and will give you a decent yeild. stuff is really on the fruity side of things with low resin content. very smooth smoke. its still in my "test" tent before it goes into full production in the 4kw room upstairs what im most excited about in the tent isn't even weed actually its that car boy full of a roselare blend from wyeast oud bruin and a starter from dregs of 2 one year old bottles of the tart of darkness. i have been fermenting beer in my grow rooms for co2 for the last year and have found it was to hot for most yeast and had to big of a temp swing from lights on lights off. tasty stuff from all grain regardless. the microbes in primary fermentation of sour beers prefer 75 -85 f during primary fermentation and i think i have hit the golden ticket but to bad the roselare takes 18 months to fully ferment to maturation before find out if its a good idea or a waste of 12 gallons of beer, labor and shit ton of research...no pun intended but my hobbies blend together.
 

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DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
If i am ever in the seattle area I will contact you. beer and buds oh yeah. love the way you are fermenting it in the tent. great idea. looks like you can grow some great weed, experimenting is fun.
To clarify i only defoliate plants that are gonna finish over 4'6" or taller. Cause there is no way the light will get down to the bottom parts. But this time i have the new t5 hanging next to 6' tall ladies and they are getting light from it down low so i will only do it to the 3 that are not getting side light. check out my thread in sig round 2 multi. 2nd from last page.
 
pandorasboxg

pandorasboxg

Active Member
i don't know about you but i would smoke that larf anyday...another lesson learned the hard way put a little"flag" at the top of your damn bamboo steaks so your dont poke your eye out. after a day of smoking and drinking its easy to miss the bamboo both the gf and i have done it more than once while watering and shit. you think i would see something coming right at my eye but apparently not sometimes!!! woke up one morning and saw the girlfriend had put flags on the steaks and i was like great idea im guessing you lost an eye too!!! since then no accidents on the job site. ben how well do your grapes really grow in texas? temp seems right but the soil isn't rocky enough(at least i thought) in most areas and higher humidity than most normal wine growing regions of the world. has this effected the thickness of your skins on the grapes? when i was a kid my parents forced me to take care of a giant ass grape abor(straight up child labor status) in arizona. they are Mormons so they unfortunatelty did not ferment even though they had lots of fruit trees too. the apple does not fall from the tree though and my Mormon ass dad grew a shit ton for a living. found this out from family but never had the discussion yet . hes older now and all im going to drop the bomb on him and be like your brother sold you out while we were smoking a bowl one day. but its okay cause i grow it too.
 

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pandorasboxg

pandorasboxg

Active Member
word. grapes look pretty good but i can't taste the berries. one thing i have learned in wa is that grapes love dry, hot and rocky. well at least humans like it our growing enviorment anyways because our top growers here in wa all agree stressed grape plants with little water over the summer with produce smaller fruits with less water in the berries themselves and the berries as a result had thicker skins to protect themselves from the harsh conditions, also this drops yeild too... the plus side since most of your flavor is coming from the skins you have really upped the complexity of the limited juice & and added a lot more tannins for aging. all these top vineyards out here all agree on this as well as acidemics. leonetti slings their bottles for about 150-300 dollars per bottle to restaurants only and they only sell to restaurants because the demand is so high. in 1977 students from eastern Washington university revived and almost dead old vineyard from the turn of the century. those almost dead plants have still produced the highest rated wine in Washington state ever period(their first year in business). i have tried several vintage that are ten years plus in age. shit completely changed how i think about wine, shitty over watered commercial wine is now undrinkable to me entirely. nataure in not taking the flavor of your smoke into consideration as the plant develops and you have to learn to "read" your plants to coax flavor you want out of them by guiding their environment. one thing i have learned is that to much nitrogen in late flower causes leafier bud as well as a significant change in flavor profile. ben is right you cant just rinse the bad flavors out of you herb. garbage in garbage out. those plants spent their whole life developing their flavor and can't just be pushed out of the plant over night. that being said i have found that nutrients leaving smells and flavors behind is most pronounced towards the end of the grow. so just like making wine you have to decide early on if im going for yield or flavor keeping that plant healthy at the end will have less resin production and less terpines as a percentage. on the other end have also found all it takes is quiting (hydro nutes in cocoa) few days early an you might end up with not enough green in your bud which also is a negative. one flaw i have to point out in ben's "kool aid theory" is if nute companies are simply just trying to get your money by getting to use as much nutes as possible they probably wouldn't recommend stopping the use of nutes a week before harvest. that advice of using less overall would simply go against their motive to sell you more nutes. i have accidentally ran nutes up until the day before harvest and yeah my plants were green as fuck & purple (in fact that purple ass plant was one of them) but i noticed reduced aromatics and flavor. this difference was small and is often overstated by people here but none the less the difference was there and not worth the trade off. so point being nature has one thing in mind as successful which doesn't include smoking and our taste buds may consider something else better and the art of growing good weed the comes in when we balance this decrepansy and we learn to coax the flavors we like out of our favorite plants...that being said im not recommending the same techs a vinter uses to get good flavor but the ideology is there. quality before quantity and if you happen to produce a shit ton of it after that has been applied...even better.
 
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DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
I think lights have a big effect so does amount of sulfur and nute types. also running closer to 80 will give more resign.
 
budman111

budman111

Well-Known Member
pandorasboxg said:
word. grapes look pretty good but i can't taste the berries. one thing i have learned in wa is that grapes love dry, hot and rocky. well at least humans like it our growing enviorment anyways because our top growers here in wa all agree stressed grape plants with little water over the summer with produce smaller fruits with less water in the berries themselves and the berries as a result had thicker skins to protect themselves from the harsh conditions, also this drops yeild too... the plus side since most of your flavor is coming from the skins you have really upped the complexity of the limited juice & and added a lot more tannins for aging. all these top vineyards out here all agree on this as well as acidemics. leonetti slings their bottles for about 150-300 dollars per bottle to restaurants only and they only sell to restaurants because the demand is so high. in 1977 students from eastern Washington university revived and almost dead old vineyard from the turn of the century. those almost dead plants have still produced the highest rated wine in Washington state ever period(their first year in business). i have tried several vintage that are ten years plus in age. shit completely changed how i think about wine, shitty over watered commercial wine is now undrinkable to me entirely. nataure in not taking the flavor of your smoke into consideration as the plant develops and you have to learn to "read" your plants to coax flavor you want out of them by guiding their environment. one thing i have learned is that to much nitrogen in late flower causes leafier bud as well as a significant change in flavor profile. ben is right you cant just rinse the bad flavors out of you herb. garbage in garbage out. those plants spent their whole life developing their flavor and can't just be pushed out of the plant over night. that being said i have found that nutrients leaving smells and flavors behind is most pronounced towards the end of the grow. so just like making wine you have to decide early on if im going for yield or flavor keeping that plant healthy at the end will have less resin production and less terpines as a percentage. on the other end have also found all it takes is quiting (hydro nutes in cocoa) few days early an you might end up with not enough green in your bud which also is a negative. one flaw i have to point out in ben's "kool aid theory" is if nute companies are simply just trying to get your money by getting to use as much nutes as possible they probably wouldn't recommend stopping the use of nutes a week before harvest. that advice of using less overall would simply go against their motive to sell you more nutes. i have accidentally ran nutes up until the day before harvest and yeah my plants were green as fuck & purple (in fact that purple ass plant was one of them) but i noticed reduced aromatics and flavor. this difference was small and is often overstated by people here but none the less the difference was there and not worth the trade off. so point being nature has one thing in mind as successful which doesn't include smoking and our taste buds may consider something else better and the art of growing good weed the comes in when we balance this decrepansy and we learn to coax the flavors we like out of our favorite plants...that being said im not recommending the same techs a vinter uses to get good flavor but the ideology is there. quality before quantity and if you happen to produce a shit ton of it after that has been applied...even better.
Click to expand...
 
DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
yes he can type fast i hope or took him an hr. Wheni am high i do the same thing and have to delete most of it.
 
pandorasboxg

pandorasboxg

Active Member
i was on acid this morning from seeing the new mastersounds last night up here in seattle. a friend gifted me some hits that were a lot stronger than i have seen in a long time....it did take me like an hour to type that but i couldn't sleep for the obvious reason and felt inspired to get online and check on some posts and reply.....my bad....all back to normal now. kinda
 
Pepe le skunk

Pepe le skunk

Well-Known Member
Hydroburn said:
2 weeks into flower, indoor lighting.... sounds like maybe it has something to do with 12/12 stretch and somehow using dim light to stretch lower nodes up to the canopy. thats my only real guess... some training technique to produce more dominant and bigger bud sites.
Click to expand...
It is a training technique to produce bigger bud sites. Think of it as lollypop to an extreme with sucker branch removal. Exactly opposite of what you would think to do at this stage.. Try it on one and see if it doesn't produce bigger pieces with great bag appeal and weight.

The central shoot is the key and you remove almost everything else including all the sucker shoots that are not the main. You also remove almost all the leaves(90%) because you want the plant to devote all of it's energy to the forming of bud sites in the 18 inch space directly below the light source. About 10-14 days into flower most plants will start to produce bud and stretch is at its max. The main shoots will swell to a massive size directly under the light source and will form 1-2 oz buds on each branch. Anything on the lower branches are larf and pull energy and food from the top mains colas. That's why they have to go. Their weight (loss) is made up for by the extra weight on the main branches.(Usually 6 or more main branches) You prune off all the new leaf sites up to the last two on each keeper branch. All the lowest branches are removed as well. It's that extreme and the branches look like shit for a few days before they rebound. You end up with all tops. So before the hords decend, this is indoor growing specific. However could be used on outdoor plants as well the pruning of each branch..

Will say there are many other conditions involved and benefits to this method. And you wouldn't know to do it unless told or shown.
So there it is. Best thing you'll learn today.
 
Hot Diggity Sog

Hot Diggity Sog

Well-Known Member
Pepe le skunk said:
It is a training technique to produce bigger bud sites. Think of it as lollypop to an extreme with sucker branch removal. Exactly opposite of what you would think to do at this stage.. Try it on one and see if it doesn't produce bigger pieces with great bag appeal and weight.

The central shoot is the key and you remove almost everything else including all the sucker shoots that are not the main. You also remove almost all the leaves(90%) because you want the plant to devote all of it's energy to the forming of bud sites in the 18 inch space directly below the light source. About 10-14 days into flower most plants will start to produce bud and stretch is at its max. The main shoots will swell to a massive size directly under the light source and will form 1-2 oz buds on each branch. Anything on the lower branches are larf and pull energy and food from the top mains colas. That's why they have to go. Their weight (loss) is made up for by the extra weight on the main branches.(Usually 6 or more main branches) You prune off all the new leaf sites up to the last two on each keeper branch. All the lowest branches are removed as well. It's that extreme and the branches look like shit for a few days before they rebound. You end up with all tops. So before the hords decend, this is indoor growing specific. However could be used on outdoor plants as well the pruning of each branch..

Will say there are many other conditions involved and benefits to this method. And you wouldn't know to do it unless told or shown.
So there it is. Best thing you'll learn today.
Click to expand...
I'm going to be trying this but I'm not sure when I start. I'm doing 12/12 from seed and am entering 5th day of flower. I have several plants that are creating the lower shoots already. Should I remove now?
 
DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
pandorasboxg said:
i was on acid this morning from seeing the new mastersounds last night up here in seattle. a friend gifted me some hits that were a lot stronger than i have seen in a long time....it did take me like an hour to type that but i couldn't sleep for the obvious reason and felt inspired to get online and check on some posts and reply.....my bad....all back to normal now. kinda
Click to expand...
Its all good bro. that is so funny we are talking about acid on another thread. I used to be the trip man.
 
DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
Hot Diggity Sog said:
I'm going to be trying this but I'm not sure when I start. I'm doing 12/12 from seed and am entering 5th day of flower. I have several plants that are creating the lower shoots already. Should I remove now?
Click to expand...
no. leave them. the only time i every remove them if they will get no light then i remove 60% of the ones that don't get light the plant will eat the the others. Small plants should have as many leaves on them as possible. I am only removing some cause my big plants are now over 6' tall i had to super crop alike 12-14 tops last night so they hopefully wont get into the cook zone of my hps/cmh lights.
 
Pepe le skunk

Pepe le skunk

Well-Known Member
Hot Diggity Sog said:
I'm going to be trying this but I'm not sure when I start. I'm doing 12/12 from seed and am entering 5th day of flower. I have several plants that are creating the lower shoots already. Should I remove now?
Click to expand...
If they are more than 3 ft from light source and will receive little light get rid of them. Only the main branches near the ends will produce if you did the rest correctly.
 
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