Frosty the snowman

I am an organic rols grower and I use green sand but it still takes awhile for greem sand to breakdown. Many books says that many other growers I talk with a lot say that on here.

a senile fungus said:

Do you have a source for that info?

I only ask because in the organic forums its essentially an established fact that greensand takes a while to break down, and I presume they'd have a healthier microbial community in their soil than you being as they are the organic growers.

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I do grow organic, do you not read my posts at all? Lol. I dont use synthetics, maybe 1 product of my entire lineup is synthetics maybe less than 5% of anything I use.

And just google glauconite green sand and how to break it down using microbes and benes. Theres plenty of information regarding the properties and benefits of using green sand. Its been used for centuries. Theres alot of information about it online.

It has alot of different purposes which is why I like it. I dont add alot of amendments to my mediums only 3 things: castings, humus and green sand. I think it helps me but idk how to absuletly say without a doubt. Guess its just another thing to argue about. Lol

anzohaze said:

I am an organic rols grower and I use green sand but it still takes awhile for greem sand to breakdown. Many books says that many other growers I talk with a lot say that on here.

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It does take awhile its not fast acting as I said. Thats why I add it in veg when I pot up into my larger containers. So its usually in there for 3 weeks before I even hit bloom. by then so long as your medium is innoculated and colonized with good amounts of benes and microbes they will be breaking that down and turning it into useable sources of food. I would say it you are using it in recycled soils than it will last a long time since it is slow release. Thats why its so good. Has alot of beneficial properties to using it.

Also people top dress with that stuff too, if it took that long to break down i dont think people would even do that it would be a waste. The key is the microbes breaking it down for yah. You sound like thats what yoh are doing so it would def be good for you. I got ppl I work with who swear by it. I use it and I havent looked back. Its cheap to so fcuk it whatever works. Just a preference thing at this point. It definetely wont hurt anything so why not

Well if you use it then you obviously think it works and aids something correct? So why ask me why im using it lol. Same reason. This is why I feel like people come on here and want and look to start problems with other people. You ask me why Im using it and then say you use it. Then why ask? Smh. Moving on.

Cannabil said:

Well if you use it then you obviously think it works and aids something correct? So why ask me why im using it lol. Same reason. This is why I feel like people come on here and want and look to start problems with other people. You ask me why Im using it and then say you use it. Then why ask? Smh. Moving on.

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Please prove that green sand can and will break down in a matter of weeks. Everything I have seen and read says way longer then weeks

I think the big misconception of growing organic is that you can only grow organic if you build your own soil and amend it. This is simply not true. Just one type of organic growing maybe considered true organic growing.

I just prefer liquid organics myself, but I am currently in the process of trying out my own soil recipe. Its a combination of lumperdawgz and the Rev's mix (and soil spikes). I just avoid using the guanos and bone/blood meal. Replacing them for veganic and fish sources instead. Its still cooking right now so I wont have any information or results for quite awhile.

I get good results using liquid organics now but I just want to try out something new and go straight amendments and just water and occasional teas. Ive seen some really good quality meds growing this way and I am very interested in learning more about it

anzohaze said:

Please prove that green sand can and will break down in a matter of weeks. Everything I have seen and read says way longer then weeks

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I dont need to prove anything i dont care that much about it. I use it and dont know why that bothers you. Never told anyone u needed it at all. I just said i add it in my mix. Thats all. Idk why you are so adament about finding out exactly how long it take to break down. I think it depends on how its used and applied. Could be anywhere from a month to a few months or a year. I have no idea my friend and dont really care. And I never said "weeks". I said i add it during veg, so it has 3 weeks roughly to break down before i even hit flowering. Im basing the breakdown and it being useful by mid flowering. I dont know for sure, nor do I care to argue any further about it.

If you dont think it works in a couple months and it take years then you are wasting your time using it as well. People top dress with green sand so obviously it doesnt take months and years to break down. I think after a month or so in your medium it will become useful. And will last a long time before it is depleted. Good day. Im done, go google it or ask around.

My soil get reused time and time again I have been with same soil for a few years now

I just am tired of arguing with people on here. No matter what you or I say or think should matter to anyone else. All we have is our experience and opinions. Noone will ever completely agree on anything. I just find people take things so personally and human nature pokes in and bravado strikes and noone likes being "wrong". If ou think something works and is the way things should be then you are right. If it works for you it works. Something i do may not work for you and vice versa. Theres more than one way to shoot a cat you know.

If there was one way to grow and only one nutrient that worked the best. Then their would only be one book and one nutrient company and nothing to argue anout ever. But as we all know this just isnt true nor the case. Im not an expert i dont know everything. Shit i dont know half the terminology and shit people even say on here. I dont know anything about breeding ive never tried it and dont know anyone personally who does. All i do is talk and soeak about what I know and use. Im just over the belittling and arguing and napoleon complexes certain ppl have on here thats needs to stop cuz it is petty and ridiculous. The know it alls are the worse. Anyone who cant admit to being wrong or not knowing everything is a fool and an idiot. Im first to admit i dont know. So regarding this green sand and break down i have no idea at all. As said my giy eho taught me during my journey and growing used and implemented it in his gardens so I have taken that on and done the same. I dont think it hurts or negatively effects anything so I continue to use it. If i took it out who knows maybe nothing would change I have no clue.

anzohaze said:

My soil get reused time and time again I have been with same soil for a few years now

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Yeah so you proly gettin the full benefit of it then. I did see somewhere people say it can be used for 5-7 years before needing any additional amounts. But who knows what type of medium they have how well its innoculated, how big the garden is or containers or beds. Its sooo many limiting factors im sure there no definitive way to even calculate it to be truthful. I dont know if anyone could definetely answer the question but i could be wrong maybe someone does I just dont know myself. Maybe someone can chime in

I
My origin.post was a question as I learned it takes forever you said it doesn't so If you were able to.prove it then he'll yeah. I was not trying to be a dick. You never learn without asking questioms

anzohaze said:

I
My origin.post was a question as I learned it takes forever you said it doesn't so If you were able to.prove it then he'll yeah. I was not trying to be a dick. You never learn without asking questioms

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Gotcha. Yah idk how long it take to be completely broken down. I just use it and the guy who put me onto it has been using it for 20.+ years so Idk to be exact. Id assume it breaks down much more quickly when your medium is heavily innoculated and teaming with benes and microbes. And if your using enzymes (everyone should be and fulvic acids). I would assume it takes much less time to break down into useable forms. I think when they say it take years for it to break down means that if left un adultered or composted it would take X amount of time to break down.


*** Kind of like metal takes 30 years to break down, but if you add acids and special chemicals it can be broken down in a few months. Thats the purpose of using all the tools we have in our gardens to speed up processes and aid plants. Which is why indoor gardening is better tha outdoors because you can directly control all the inputs and outputs to speed up the time, quality, control growth/height everything you know.
It may take along while in nature but in your living garden and soil i dont think thats the case at all and a month or so should be enoguh to start making it into useable forms of nutrients and minerals to some benefit for your plants.

Cannabil said:

I do grow organic, do you not read my posts at all? Lol. I dont use synthetics, maybe 1 product of my entire lineup is synthetics maybe less than 5% of anything I use.

And just google glauconite green sand and how to break it down using microbes and benes. Theres plenty of information regarding the properties and benefits of using green sand. Its been used for centuries. Theres alot of information about it online.

It has alot of different purposes which is why I like it. I dont add alot of amendments to my mediums only 3 things: castings, humus and green sand. I think it helps me but idk how to absuletly say without a doubt. Guess its just another thing to argue about. Lol

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Here you said in an earlier post in this very thread!
Greenhouse;save said: ↑Yea VERY nice.......what kind of nuetes do you give here in here cycles cannibal.....

"Botanicare Bases, CalMg+, Silica Blast, Liquid Karma, Hydroplex, Advanced Bud Ignitor, Advanced Nirvana and B52, Bio-Ag Fulvex, Great White, Hygrozyme, GH Subculture M&B, Terpinator, Vegamatrix Hard n Quik (veg and first 2 weeks bloom, foliar spray).

I usually use Canna PK 13/14 (store didnt have any when I went so I just got a bottle of Atami Bloombastic (I only use it for 2 feedings once per week 6/7). And continue the hydroplex from week 3-7/8 depending on variety. Just cut it out when using the pk so I dont over do it!

Some are sunshine #4 coco mix, some are in straight coco w coco chips. 7 gallon containers. Only thing I add to mix is worm castings about 15-20% and some Green Sand 5-10%

Thats pretty much everything in a nut shell."

So then;
Botanicare base's: Every liquid Base, Not organic and does not have the OMARI label.
Only the powdered Organicare line is Organic certified!

CalMag+: Not organic and does not have the OMARI label.

Silica Blast : Not Organic and does not have the OMARI label

Liquid Karma: From the Botanicare website says it's not 100% organic and does not have the OMARI label.

Hydroplex: Not organic and does not have the OMARI label.
This a a 0-50-30 Bloom booster....They say on their site for this product. "It is best never to use more than one PK Booster, or flower enhancer at the same time."

AN Bud Ignitor: Not organic, does not have the OMARI label.
You did say you changed to Bud Blood. So,,
Bud Blood : Not organic and does not have the OMARI label. (another 0-50-30 supplement - Cannabil states he use's these boosters at different times and in limited quantities).

AN Nirvana: Maker states it to BE organic! (No OMARI certification) I'll accept it as organic here.

AN B-52: Not organic, does not have the OMARI label.

Bio Ag Fulvex: Organic! OMARI listed.

Great White: Myco's, Organic.

Hygrozyme: Organic.

G&H subculture M&B: Organic. M is myco's and B is bacteria

Terpinator: Not organic, does not have the OMARI label.

Vegamatrix Hard and Quick: A Foliar, (ungodly expensive) Maker states it is "VEGANIC, no animal derived ingr."
NOT organic, does not have the OMARI label

Canna PK 13/14: Not organic, does not have the OMARI label. (Bloom Booster)

Atami Bloombastic: Not organic, does not have the OMARI label...(Bloom Booster - 0-14-15[by weight] and 0-20-21[by volume]).

With all the politeness I can muster.
I have to ask you.

How can you say your growing organic?

You seem to have contradicted yourself in this thread..

An amused
Doc

Bitanicare is primarily all organic so are the an additives i use. Just because its not omri listed doesnt mean anything.

Bio canna isnt omri certified thats all organic so whats ur point? Because a company doesnt want to pay to get their products approved by omri doesnt mean anything. Some omri products arent even all organic.

I said I use a small amount of synthetics you just dont like to read my entire posts u pick and chose what u want like usual. Some of the shit i use is synethic maybe 5% of it.

Botanicare bases and additives are organic look at the ingredients: rock phophate, bat guano, fish emulsion, kelp etc

AN nutrients are all organic as well, b52 is primarily all organic and nirvana is def 100% organic, and both of these products are derived from organic sources. B52 has sall amount of concentrate synethics so what? AN nutrients are all made primarily organics mostly worm castings , kelps, guanos etc.

All you spew is bs and non sense.

Hydroplex is made primarily of plant extracts, organically derived sources including kelp extracts and humic/fulvic acids

You dont know what you are talking about! You dont use AN you know nothing about BOTANICARE so just stfu. I asked u before to get off my dick. i know u love me but im not gay so leave me alone ur more annoying then a fuckin mosquito.

You can still grow organic and use some synthetic additives. Thats how you get the yields without sacrificing quality. Vegamatrix is considered all organic and veganic and contains 10% synthetics so whats your point? So is bio h&g and so is bio canna including many other organic liquid ferts. They all contain some synthetic amendments so you can get the yields and the quality. Some things your plants need for optimal growth come from synthetic sources doesnt mean its not organic if you use 1-2 things. You dumb mther fcker

On the use of Greensand.

I use Greensand because I reuse my soils over and over again.

Greensand is a good choice for No-till growers!

This is taken from Build a soil.com

"Greensand takes Years to become available, if this is part of your really long term plan, that’s fine. This could be an initial amendment for starting a No-Till. There are other mineral amendments that will make themselves available to the plants faster. My goal when building a soil is not to waste money, and I would cut this out for sure.... but really see no harm in using it."

I agree!

I have NO problem with you using greensand......It's a l-o-n-g term amendment though..

I use Azomite in my mineral mix....Better for the run your building the soil for - available to the primary run!

Only saying!

Doc

Cannabil said:

AN nutrients are all organic as well.

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Eh?!?!?!? What the Bases?

Cannabil said:

You can still grow organic and use some synthetic additives. Thats how you get the yields without sacrificing quality. Vegamatrix is considered all organic and veganic and contains 10% synthetics so whats your point? So is bio h&g and so is bio canna including many other organic liquid ferts. They all contain some synthetic amendments so you can get the yields and the quality. Some things your plants need for optimal growth come from synthetic sources doesnt mean its not organic if you use 1-2 things. You dumb mther fcker

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I did not attack you Cannabil!
I only gave out and posted a list of fact(s).

I suggest (politely) you read up on just what makes organic - organic!
You are NOT growing organic....MOST of those products are NOT organic. The listings I gave are from the makers information available ON their web sites!

The OMARI certification is awarded, not bought. The money spent is to cover the operational costs of the testing, OMARI is non-profit...I run a 3 farm organic OMARI certified (for using only organic products) farm co-op. It took over 6 years to get all 3 organic and certified! I get invited to college Ag programs across the country to speak on Old world farming technique/sustainability and on organic and alternative farming practice's.

I am not twisting any facts to my advantage....I gave and stated,,,the truth!
I suggest (with all politeness) that you don't come back and say that you are. You will only be making a fool of yourself.

The pics of your plants are very nice. You can grow....I'll give you that and not accuse you of being anybody but who you are. OK?
No "if's", "and's" or "but's"....about the pics!

I don't "hate" you....I did not stoop to calling you names.

I just supply truth and science fact where it should be..

A restrained and calm

Doc

If anything used on my farm or the one's I manage are in ANY percentage "synthetic". I (we) will LOOSE our certification. Both OMARI and Federal!

If any amount of synthetic is in anything used for growing. It is NOT organic.....If there is any animal byproduct used, it is NOT Veganic....Veganic, does not mean organic!

Blood meal, Bone meal and feather meal have been deemed organic.....I don't use those for what they may contain, not because they are animal byproducts.....

This posting is informational only.....
NOT meant to be an "in your face comeback."

Doc

Cannabil said:

Some omri products arent even all organic.

I said I use a small amount of synthetics you just dont like to read my entire posts u pick and chose what u want like usual. Some of the shit i use is synethic maybe 5% of it.

I asked u before to get off my dick. i know u love me but im not gay so leave me alone ur more annoying then a fuckin mosquito.

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1: ????? Ok, sure.

2: Not only did I read all of the post. I quoted the entire post...in my retort on your "organic" growing.

3: That's my boot on your NECK! I can understand your confusion by reading your posts....

I have still, not called you names!

Doc