Foxfarm or general organics?

Nullis said:

Which was never remotely the topic of this thread.

So why the hell even bring them up then? To distract from the fact that you're a pompous ass (moreso than me...I mean shit)? And yeah, I tried to tone down the language, you said it was too late. Do you have any point to make here? Because I don't wear panties. Not like the ones yo momma had on last night.

What you're really saying is... you got nothin.

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Nullis said:

Not of this forum.

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Pattahabi said:

Nullis said:

One of the grow shops in my area actually stopped selling the more local worm castings they briefly had, because they were infested with pests.

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I just had to laugh at this. If there are not bugs in my soil I get worried. Bugs are part of soil.

Yup, I'm going to bash buying nutes off the hydrostore shelf. I'm going to tell people FFOF is garbage. I'm not going to sugar coat it when people are using no pest strips and superthrive in their organic grows. And I sure as hell am going to tell people reconstituted kelp is not as good as fresh.

I know this is a new word for the wanna be chemist, SUSTAINABILITY....

To some of us, growing organic is more then an omri logo.

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Nullis said:

But my point from post #12 was that, some others don't exactly think that way really is any simpler, or much better, or even cheaper in many cases. In many cases it really isn't depending on where you live and what else you have going on in your life. Can you appreciate that without calling me a jerk? I'll be sure not to use foul language in your direction.
It's just, you act as if I was telling people to go out and buy the whole Advanced Nutrient line or something. And does it really matter if someone buys a bag of compost at a "hydro store" as opposed to a farm supply? How is shopping at your local "grow shop" as opposed to online not supporting your local economy?

I mean hyroot even admits at one point in response to my snarky city compost bit that "of course some places are going to have shitty compost", but neither of you will concede to such a sentiment as far as bottled products or bagged compost/earthworm castings from the "hydro store" go? Do you even realize how much the product selections at these places vary from region to region? One of the grow shops in my area actually stopped selling the more local worm castings they briefly had, because they were infested with pests.

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Nullis said:

Not all bugs are pests. No all pests are bugs. I this case it was root eating nematodes. Plenty of bugs in my soil, so I must be doing something right.

Show me some research that says "reconstituted kelp" (I think you mean extracts) is not as good as fresh kelp, or is "worse" than fresh kelp. I already provided material that substantiates what I say. Now it's your turn. Why did you run away for a while there just to come back and spout the same pretentious all or nothing, know it all, put words in people mouth bullshit anyways?

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Nullis said:

And that is the best you have?

You don't even know me quite honestly, how I grow or a damned thing for that matter. Not to mention any of the posts I've made here in the past or people who I've helped, regardless of how they choose to do things. I don't just tell them -oh well that's not right you need to start from scratch again. Excuse me for not being on here every day. Sometimes weeks go by and I'm not around because despite that some money grows on trees, I still have a kid to raise and mouths to feed. Ain't nothing in this world for free.

I've merely tried to say I advocate for people thinking for themselves and making their own decisions, even where products are concerned. If only your mind wasn't quite as narrow as your ass you might see exactly how much of a shmuck you're being.

Rave about enjoying being a douche. Bring up stuff we're not even talking about (after quoting me). Talk about more stuff I'm not sure I ever implied... pretend you're special because your soil ingredients and amendments all come in separate boxes or bags or bales or whatever. Ignore facts in the face of research in favor of conspiracy theories.

You know that coco coir is arguably significantly more sustainable than sphagnum peat moss, right? You have your own worm bins too right? I'm sure you do I just wanna make sure. I gotta make sure you're being sustainable. Where does your kelp come from, exactly, anyways? Molasses?


You know, other bottled products come from such places as, the garden center at the hardware store (fish fertilizer).

Nothing there, right?

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Nullis said:

So instead of you getting me the info I was asking if you could elaborate on, or pointing me to something which did, in words I could understand, I went and found it my damned self. http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRD3456145

Describes the synthetic process, some common non-synthetic processes and why alkali extracts may be preferred, in good detail without a piss-fest. Guess why the alkali-extracts are preferred? For more complete extraction of the plant growth substances (that you figured would destroy them). Now I wonder why the evil seaweed companies would lobby for such a horrendous measure.

One thing I can do at least is admit I was wrong about something (unlike either of you), like how I assumed either KOH\NaOH might be mined, when more typically it turns out to be from electrolysis of muriate of potash (KCl, which is from ore). It can also be a byproduct of making hydrochloric acid. However, lye has been used in a wide variety of processes from foodstuffs to soap making for a very long time. Hundreds of years ago it was derived from wood ashes.

Still, just because the 'NOP\OMRI regulations' allow SWC's to be made with processes that use KOH\NaOH, simply doesn't mean:

1. That they're all made this way (because there are "NON SYNTHETIC EXTRACTS", which are allowed and why wouldn't they be)
   
2. That any significant quantity of KOH\NaOH even remains in the finished product (for products that actually ARE made that way)
3. That doing so chemically alters the compounds in the kelp, in fact such extracts are specifically not allowed, nor are KOH extracts to be blended "with synthetically extracted humic acid derivatives" (but who cares?)
   
4. That products which ARE made that way are necessarily bad- a Draino MSDS doesn't demonstrate that, and why the hell not just provide the actual MSDS for lye itself? Were you not keen enough to, or did you just figure it looked worse as a component of big, bad 'drain cleaner'? ...Bokashi?
5. If these extracts have more PGRs, are more complete extractions, why isn't that a "good" thing?
6. What benefit is it to the evil seaweed companies to taint their products with caustic chemicals they have to buy, which actually destroy their product and make it less effective?

To recap, I sorta feel as if I am being attacked for basically saying there are different ways to grow (and I have a potty mouth). Then you run with this particular bit about the seaweed extract with horrible caustic chemicals and the phosphoric acid like I am supposed to know wth you are talking about, just to rant about this particular class of seaweed extracts that could be made employing KOH\NaOH (stuff made in labs), which you suppose must destroy all the PGRs, or whatever...

Flipping out because KOH\NaOH apparently are the ONLY synthetic substances allowed [to be used in the extraction process]. I have to go find the information myself and go figure, it might actually facilitate the extraction to help remove more of the plant-derived plant growth hormones and substances unique to kelp. The only thing stopping the biological activity in the product is pH, and it really would be best if those compounds not decay before they reach the consumer. It's a cluster fuck. But for aforementioned points, I digress.

I dunno. I don't give a fuck about conspiracy theories, or delusional people (other than myself) who fly off the handle over differing perspectives.

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Nullis said:

Aside from the fact that General Organics kelp extract isn't made that way....

Bokashi. Also drain cleaner. But whatever your friend says must be true.



Keep repeating the same bullshit, though. Round and round we go. Nice worms.

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Nullis said:

The kelp is going to be "biologically dead" not matter what by the time it gets to you.

And prove it. Prove they add sulfate of potash to the Bio-Weed. Prove that they add phosphoric acid to it. And potash to bump up the K? Of a 0.2-0-0.3?

Do you even know what happens when you mix something like potassium hydroxide with phosphoric acid. Hint: water is a major product.

Prove that the PGRs are sufficiently extracted via bubbling and that they aren't destroyed.
Potassium hydroxide does not destroy the growth substances, which were your original assumption... and it was wrong.

Quit having a hissy fit about it. Or don't, I'm done.

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Nullis said:

So instead of you getting me the info I was asking if you could elaborate on, or pointing me to something which did, in words I could understand, I went and found it my damned self. http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRD3456145

Describes the synthetic process, some common non-synthetic processes and why alkali extracts may be preferred, in good detail without a piss-fest. Guess why the alkali-extracts are preferred? For more complete extraction of the plant growth substances (that you figured would destroy them). Now I wonder why the evil seaweed companies would lobby for such a horrendous measure.

One thing I can do at least is admit I was wrong about something (unlike either of you), like how I assumed either KOH\NaOH might be mined, when more typically it turns out to be from electrolysis of muriate of potash (KCl, which is from ore). It can also be a byproduct of making hydrochloric acid. However, lye has been used in a wide variety of processes from foodstuffs to soap making for a very long time. Hundreds of years ago it was derived from wood ashes.

Still, just because the 'NOP\OMRI regulations' allow SWC's to be made with processes that use KOH\NaOH, simply doesn't mean:

1. That they're all made this way (because there are "NON SYNTHETIC EXTRACTS", which are allowed and why wouldn't they be)
   
2. That any significant quantity of KOH\NaOH even remains in the finished product (for products that actually ARE made that way)
3. That doing so chemically alters the compounds in the kelp, in fact such extracts are specifically not allowed, nor are KOH extracts to be blended "with synthetically extracted humic acid derivatives" (but who cares?)
   
4. That products which ARE made that way are necessarily bad- a Draino MSDS doesn't demonstrate that, and why the hell not just provide the actual MSDS for lye itself? Were you not keen enough to, or did you just figure it looked worse as a component of big, bad 'drain cleaner'? ...Bokashi?
5. If these extracts have more PGRs, are more complete extractions, why isn't that a "good" thing?
6. What benefit is it to the evil seaweed companies to taint their products with caustic chemicals they have to buy, which actually destroy their product and make it less effective?

To recap, I sorta feel as if I am being attacked for basically saying there are different ways to grow (and I have a potty mouth). Then you run with this particular bit about the seaweed extract with horrible caustic chemicals and the phosphoric acid like I am supposed to know wth you are talking about, just to rant about this particular class of seaweed extracts that could be made employing KOH\NaOH (stuff made in labs), which you suppose must destroy all the PGRs, or whatever...

Flipping out because KOH\NaOH apparently are the ONLY synthetic substances allowed [to be used in the extraction process]. I have to go find the information myself and go figure, it might actually facilitate the extraction to help remove more of the plant-derived plant growth hormones and substances unique to kelp. The only thing stopping the biological activity in the product is pH, and it really would be best if those compounds not decay before they reach the consumer. It's a cluster fuck. But for aforementioned points, I digress.

I dunno. I don't give a fuck about conspiracy theories, or delusional people (other than myself) who fly off the handle over differing perspectives.

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Pattahabi said:

So that says they don't use sulfate of potash? They don't use phosphoric acid? And you're telling me to learn to read?

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anzohaze said:

Hyroot tell your monkey to play nice or he wont play at all

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greasemonkeymann said:

a bad monkey need to be disciplined... I recommend spanking him.

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greasemonkeymann said:

a bad monkey need to be disciplined... I recommend spanking him.

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