Fox farm nutes, What could be wrong?

I have 3 plants. 1 female 2 unknown and they are in the second week of flowering. They are growing in a dwc with netpots, hydroton, and rockwool. CFL lighting (my one female is about 3ft. Its taller than the other two plants). I used a different nute brand during veg and switched over to FF trio beginning of the 12/12 cycle.


I am using FF trio for my DWC grow and the plants looked like they were nute burned after I followed FF suggested serving size for the first week of flower. Now I have the res filled with 6 gal of water and 25% of the serving.

So more info:
FF Big Bloom NPK is .01-.3-.7
FF Grow Big NPK is 3-2-6
FF Tiger Bloom NPK is 2-8-4


FF suggests 3 tsp/gal big bloom, 1 grow big tsp/gal, and 1 tiger bloom tsp/gal for 12/12 week 5 with a ppm range of 1120-1260. They say feed twice/week. Each serving is about 600 ppm in 6 gal of water. I did that and ended up with what I believe is nute burn but there are clearly some leaves with mg deficiency signs. I ordered botanicare's cal-mg plus and it should be here by next week. I believe they are in a lockout and are not eating anymore based off the ppm rising and constant ph (but its only been two days).



My question is if they were nute burned or over-fertilized how long does it usually take for them to start eating again? My ppm after feeding the 25% serving was a 340 at a .5 conversion factor and my tap water has a ppm of 140. So I have noticed in the last few days that the ppm is rising (now at a 420) but the PH has been a stable 5.8-6.0. So it seems as if water is evaporating or they are drinking water and not eating any food. My temps are 77 f for the room and the res is 68-73 f sometimes cooler.


The growth seems to have slowed but the newest growth seems healthy. The fan leaves immediately below the new growth have brown tips/saw blade edges. Some of the tips have curled upward while others downward and a few others are twisted as well as curled.

I am not using any of their additives just the FF trio. I am in week 1 of flowering. I noticed they drank a gallon in the past two days so I added 1.5 tsp tiger bloom, .5 big bloom, and .5 grow big to 1 gal of water. It brought the res ph to a 5.6 and a ppm of (443-140=) 303 I figured adding a little more tiger bloom for the P since I wasn't using their additional products like open sesame.

Here are some pics: THE YELLOW IS FROM THE CFLS if i turned them off it was way to dark to see.

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I appreciate your time and help. Ill pay it forward!

could be over ferted OR a P-K issue...

1st- flush the system- dump the rez and go with plain water for 12 hours....then add back your nutes--- their official chart is below...

You ARE dumping the rez then adding fresh water & nutes when you feed- not just adding more nutes-- right? Otherwise- to keep using the rez solution and just top off the water as needed and keep adding to it- you need their "Phasic" schedule-- completely different...


Good Luck!


FOX FARMS SCHEDULE

Product list:

Grow Big--$16
Tiger Bloom--$16
Big Bloom --$16
Open Seseme--$23 (suggested)
ChaChing--$23 (suggested)
Beastie Bloom --$23 (suggested)
And the Optional : Bush Doctor Sledgehammer--$26 (suggested)

There is a 3-pack available for $65 of Open Sesame, Cha Ching and Beastie Bloom IF you can find it!

The last 4 Products are used in small quantities and only at specific times during the grow -- so if you know someone who wanted to go in on the 3-pack with ya, it would be worth it!

Here's the FoxFarms Feeding Schedule for Soil... Hydro is MUCH more complex, unless you use bubblersthen you can follow a Phasic feeding schedule (At end of weekly schedule!)


FOX FARMS FEEDING SCHEDULES


WEEKLY FEEDING- per Gallon
Sprouting and week 1--BigBloom 2TBS
week 2-- 2tsp Grow Big + 2TBS Big Bloom
Week 3--3tsp Grow Big + 2TBS Big Bloom
Week 4--JUST 3 tspGrow Big + 1/4 tsp Open Sesame
Week 5 same as week 4 unless going 12/12--

Week 5- OR--day 1 of 12/12-- 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/2 tsp Open Sesame
Week 6--same as above
Week 7-- 2 Tsp Grow Big + 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/4 tsp Beastie Bloom
Week 8-- 2Tsp Grow Big + 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/2 tsp Beastie Bloom
Week 9-- 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/4 tsp Cha Ching
week 10-- Same as above
Week 11--2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/2 tsp Cha Ching


At beginning of week 11--Check Trichomes-- Flush if ready.. otherwise, continue as with week 11 every week until you flush!


Also recomended--but not a nessesity--
Bush Doctor Sledgehammer (prevents lock-out)
use 2 drops per gallon of water between feedings starting in week 4 of 12/12

LadyZandra said:

could be over ferted OR a P-K issue...

1st- flush the system- dump the rez and go with plain water for 12 hours....then add back your nutes--- their official chart is below...

You ARE dumping the rez then adding fresh water & nutes when you feed- not just adding more nutes-- right? Otherwise- to keep using the rez solution and just top off the water as needed and keep adding to it- you need their "Phasic" schedule-- completely different...

Good Luck!.......

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It was overfertilized because I used FF feeding chart. The chart you posted is for soil right? I am growing in hydro. I usually change the res every week and add fresh nute solution. For the last three days I did flush already with about 15 hours of plain water and then I added 1/4 a serving of FF chart. I think it was a P-K issue as well as mg issue. I made adjustments to the solution as I mention above to add more P.

I am not using the other FF products just the base trio; therefore, I am trying to learn how to measure how much nutes they need weekly. The FF chart seems to be to much for my plants. Right now I am not sure how I should continue forward?

Also the chart you posted is different then the one that came with the trio.

I use FF and its best to keep the ppm on the low ends for each stage. I have caused that before myself. My problems were overfeeding and my ph was on the low end. Any experts out there who can help with this?

looks like deficiency more than anything. might be ca/mg but im not sure to be honest. if your PPM are in the 1200 range thats pretty high imo. i just brought my hydro (DWC) PPM up to 900 and im in week 2 of flower.

hope you get it sorted man, carefull taking peoples advice on here cuz 1/2 these guys aint got a clue (not directing that at anyone who has already commented)

what i would do is get that CA/MG into the and bring the PPM down to 800 (definatly enough nutrient to make a happy plant, but not enough to burn them)

make sure your PH meter is calibrated correctly as well, if its off you could be reading correct PH but it could be off. calibration solutions of 7.0 and 4.01 are about 20 bucks. you can also test the PH of a alkaline and acid household item with a known PH kike bleach and lemon juice. google them to find out the PH.

makke sure your PPM arent too high, i know i said deficient but 1200 seems a bit high to me, but again im not a hydro expert.

temp swings will cause PH swings.

anyways, first step i would take would be to make sure your meter is properly calibrated, if you have done that then i would get the cal mag + in there and see where that takes you, if all that seems to be in order and your not seeing any better results at a lower PPM then bump it up. some strains are definatly known to be nitrient lovers and will be most content with a solution of around 1800 PPM.....BUT its better to try starving them a bit first than it is to burn the shit out of them.

my 2¢ take it with a grain of salt

GandalfdaGreen said:

I use FF and its best to keep the ppm on the low ends for each stage. I have caused that before myself. My problems were overfeeding and my ph was on the low end. Any experts out there who can help with this?

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Did you use their whole line? I am just using the Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom. I just want to know what to do if their over-ferted? I have flushed already for >12hr and added 1/4 of serving. Do I just wait and see now? I am hoping I don't need to buy Sesame, Beast Bloom, or chaching because of budget constraints.

RetiredMatthebrute said:

looks like deficiency more than anything. might be ca/mg but im not sure to be honest. if your PPM are in the 1200 range thats pretty high imo. i just brought my hydro (DWC) PPM up to 900 and im in week 2 of flower.

hope you get it sorted man, carefull taking peoples advice on here cuz 1/2 these guys aint got a clue (not directing that at anyone who has already commented)

what i would do is get that CA/MG into the and bring the PPM down to 800 (definatly enough nutrient to make a happy plant, but not enough to burn them)

make sure your PH meter is calibrated correctly as well, if its off you could be reading correct PH but it could be off. calibration solutions of 7.0 and 4.01 are about 20 bucks. you can also test the PH of a alkaline and acid household item with a known PH kike bleach and lemon juice. google them to find out the PH.

makke sure your PPM arent too high, i know i said deficient but 1200 seems a bit high to me, but again im not a hydro expert.

temp swings will cause PH swings.

anyways, first step i would take would be to make sure your meter is properly calibrated, if you have done that then i would get the cal mag + in there and see where that takes you, if all that seems to be in order and your not seeing any better results at a lower PPM then bump it up. some strains are definatly known to be nitrient lovers and will be most content with a solution of around 1800 PPM.....BUT its better to try starving them a bit first than it is to burn the shit out of them.

my 2¢ take it with a grain of salt

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Yes there are cal-mg deficiencies and I have ordered botanicare's cal-mg plus- just waiting for it to arrive. The problem is that they were deficient at a point in the veg while I was using Stealthhydroponic Nutes (google that). But I noticed the deficiencies so I switched over to FF and followed their feeding chart which was wayyy to much for my plants. They became over-ferted and showed nute burn signs; thus, I flushed them for >12 and add 1/4 nutes. The PH pen is adjusted with a 7.0 calibration solution. Right now the ppm is at 443 with 140 being from my tap water so 303 ppm. How do I address the cal mg issue while they have already been nute burned? If the ppm doesn't decrease tomorrow does that mean lockout?

Thanks I try to judge everyone's recommendations the best I can. But my goal is learn how much nutes the plant needs and when. Even with a ppm pen (.5) its hard to do because 3 plants in the same res seem to eat at different rates.

Nitrogen deficiency, without a doubt.

you can always try epsom salts for a quick cal/mag fix. not sure how they work in hydro but im sure theres info out there on that. The epsom salts are more a MG fix though not sure what they contain in terms of CA so you may want to add something with CA as well...possibly a disolved tums would work though im not posotive.

best of luck, 3 strains in the same rez can definatly be a difficult task. keep us updated we are all here to help

and i dont mean to be an ass when i say carefull whos recomendations you follow but theres alot of mis information out there and people may be sincere in thier wanting to help but may have gotten bad info in the past.

if the plants are all in different recepticles (i.e DWC buckets) maybe seperating them and going with seperate rezzes would be an option? only takes a couple min to rig up a reg DWC bucket with its own rez and you could run them all off of one air pump. this way you could cater to each plant. then next run keep them all the same strain. your going to want to be taking clones anyways and on the hunt for the best pheno. once you find that you can clone like crazy and keep everything the same (if thats what you want to do)

anyways babbling here and havent even had my coffee, again best of luck. ill lurk around to see how you make out and offer you my advice. but like i said before take it with a grain of salt because im no hydro pro, im doing my first hydro run right now in a single 5 gal DWC and it is going well.

I do use their entire line but I honestly think that the 3 you currently have is plenty. Many times I have not used the powders because things looked so awesome I didn't want to screw it all up. Don't worry about them.

RetiredMatthebrute said:

you can always try epsom salts for a quick cal/mag fix. not sure how they work in hydro but im sure theres info out there on that. The epsom salts are more a MG fix though not sure what they contain in terms of CA so you may want to add something with CA as well...possibly a disolved tums would work though im not posotive.

best of luck, 3 strains in the same rez can definatly be a difficult task. keep us updated we are all here to help

and i dont mean to be an ass when i say carefull whos recomendations you follow but theres alot of mis information out there and people may be sincere in thier wanting to help but may have gotten bad info in the past.

if the plants are all in different recepticles (i.e DWC buckets) maybe seperating them and going with seperate rezzes would be an option? only takes a couple min to rig up a reg DWC bucket with its own rez and you could run them all off of one air pump. this way you could cater to each plant. then next run keep them all the same strain. your going to want to be taking clones anyways and on the hunt for the best pheno. once you find that you can clone like crazy and keep everything the same (if thats what you want to do)

anyways babbling here and havent even had my coffee, again best of luck. ill lurk around to see how you make out and offer you my advice. but like i said before take it with a grain of salt because im no hydro pro, im doing my first hydro run right now in a single 5 gal DWC and it is going well.

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That is another problem I have. They are not in separate receptacles. Currently all three are sharing a res and the roots have formed into a ball. I was wondering if it was possible to cut the roots where the ball starts and then separate each plant into their own bucket? I have two air pumps now and I could split the lines so that both air pumps supply for three. BUT I am worried about stressing them further...

Tried a tsp of epsom salt already before during veg but I didn't add enough. I also have chlorinated water via my tap water. Even tho I let it air out before adding the plants back, I think that might be interfering with the mg uptake. Cal-mg + should be here tomorrow so hopefully that will help.

I checked the PPM this morning and it was up 7 compared to yesterday's 303 (so 450-140=310) while the ph remained the same 5.6. The tips of the plant are curling upward into a circle so isn't that one sign of being under-feed? It looks as if two of the small plants have started to grow again but the tallest-plant (female) has brown tips-upward curling tips. Both small plants have new growth sticking out from the top. Could it be possible that the smaller plants require less of ppm/nutes while the bigger one requires more?

This is the type of res I am currently using.

I feel as if the start of my problem is stemming from them being in the same res.

GandalfdaGreen said:

I do use their entire line but I honestly think that the 3 you currently have is plenty. Many times I have not used the powders because things looked so awesome I didn't want to screw it all up. Don't worry about them.

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Thanks, I figure using more Tiger Bloom for the P would suffice instead of open sesame...

How do people grow a variety of strains in the same res and not run into feeding problems? Can anyone with experience running a 3 or more plants in one bucket help me out here? They were deficient and I added to many nutes thus causing a burn. Now I am unsure how to continue. I have flushed them with 1/4 nutes and am now waiting and monitoring their progress.

how big are they? i dont think a ppm of around 500 would hurt even smaller plants so may want to just try and find a happy medium. i dont have much experience with all this shit so i dont want to steer you in the wrong direction, but like i said before a PPM of around 800 (i would include the tap water to 660+ 140 for water) should be on the low enough side not to burn and high enough to please a heavier feeder.

cutting the roots now will cause shitloads of stress and will stunt growth for at least 2 weeks while they regrow all them roots, i dont believe it would kill them though as root pruning in soil is a commonly practiced tek. i dont recomend doing this unless its a last resort.

is it possible to get some pics up of the system so i and others can see exactly how big these plants are?

also as far as your water goes, does it have chlorine in it or chloramine (spelling, propper word?) chlorine will evaporate but some public water sources use another form of chemical that dosent evap.....using salt based nutes i dont think this would be a huge issue but if its really strong it may be causing a lockout????

just trying to brainstorm here for ya man. seems like you have done a fair share of research and have the right idea but something is hanging you up.

did you catually buy that hydro system? or did you take the concept and build your own? maybe next run get everything into seperate buckets, either that run the same strain. I have read on multiple occasions that running different strains in the same rez can become a headache due to different strains preference on nutrients, no experience here though.

remember epsom salts is a mag fortified product and has little to no Ca in it

Magnesium sulfate (or magnesium sulphate) is an inorganic salt (chemical compound)
containing magnesium, sulfur and oxygen, with the formula MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]. It is often encountered as the
heptahydrate sulfate mineral epsomite (MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]·7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O), commonly called Epsom salt

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seems it has no Ca in it, so if the plants are Ca deficient then its not going to help, which brings me to my next comment...

if your tap water PPM is around 140...Have you checked with your water company to see a full analysis of the water? the common word is that when using tap water CAMg is not needed as much as when using RO water. RO water takes all the minerals and dissolved salts out of the water (dissolved salts is your PPM or TDS or EC, basicaly all the same, its a test of positively charged ions in the water, TDS stands for Total Dissolved Salts and all 3 are the same reading. Most PPM pens actually measure the EC of the water and conver that measurement into a more user friendly reading. EC is basically a reading of TDS, and PPM (Parts Per Million) is the measurment of how many of the ions are in a specific volume of liquid)

hope im not babling on here about shit you already know and forgive me if you do.

anyways hope all this helps. Try and get a pic of the entire setup up for us so we can see the whole picture and not just the parts that look bad.

Thanks for all your help! I appreciate the brainstorming it helps me think about it as well. Sure thing, I will add a picture of the setup tomorrow. Its hard to get a clear picture of it because of the lighting. For their sizes: Two of the smaller plants are about 1 ft. They have grown a lot more horizontally instead of vertically. The tallest-female one is 2 ft and still growing. Also the main stem of the female is a wider and stronger than the other two.

LOL yes I actually bought the SH hydro system. I modified it a tiny bit and added more cfls and a extra airpump/stone. I bought it mainly because I didn't have access to a lowes, home depot, or walmart. BUT it was intended to be a starter kit and I am not a fan of the single res. Also maintenance is troublesome at times. My next grow, I will definitely use separate buckets.

I should probably clone the female I got but I don't want to cause it any extra stress. Thoughts?

Yeah, I checked online and from what I read they add chlorine/chloride to the water. It has a strong odor at times when its fresh out the pipe but the city says it safe to drink after it has been set out for a few minutes. They recommend using a brita or its equivalent. But when I fill my res I don't filter it through anything. I usually just allow it to sit and the cloudiness disappears and it becomes transparent within a minute and I set it aside for about 5 min or more. After doing some googling I came across a report done in 2011 that explains exactly what my water has in it and the amounts. The ph reported is def what I measure with my pen. Seems as if there is no cal in it.

I attached a screenshot:

cloning dosent really cause too much stress. Cloning now would be a good idea. this way you can pick wich of the 3 you want to keep and use the clone as a mother plant. then fill that rez up with 6 of the same genetics and you shouldn't have to worry about having different PPM for different strains.

Looks like a bad magnesium deficiency too me. Which would inhibit the uptake and use of some other nutrients. FF nutes contain almost zero magnesium. There was a day when Big Bloom was enough. But now a days its watered down crap. I would suggest adding cal/mag and or epsoms salts to their diet.
Next thing needed to know is does your house have a water softening system?

Foxfarm is a 0.7 conversion not a 0.5. So a reading of 500ppms is actually 700ppms.

You should be using the 442 setting on your ppm meter if available.

Also. The lower your PH the more MG becomes unavailable.

Alexander Supertramp said:

Looks like a bad magnesium deficiency too me. Which would inhibit the uptake and use of some other nutrients. FF nutes contain almost zero magnesium. There was a day when Big Bloom was enough. But now a days its watered down crap. I would suggest adding cal/mag and or epsoms salts to their diet.
Next thing needed to know is does your house have a water softening system?

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What if you have a water softening system but you dont run salt in it while you have your grow running?