Ethyl methanesulfonate (EMS) - Mutagen

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I'm just starting C99 and GG#3 for crossing with multiple other strains, my first breeding. While reading up on it I got curious about mutagens, I see I can actually buy EMS online in two places. I'm going to hold off for a while until after some success with the normal breeding process, but I'm curious if anyone has used it or another process to induce mutations?
 

bf80255

Well-Known Member
no its really frowned upon because its just creating random ass mutations and the few that make it through and survive them arent much better off because of it.
what would you be trying to find by mutating plants?
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
no its really frowned upon because its just creating random ass mutations and the few that make it through and survive them arent much better off because of it.
what would you be trying to find by mutating plants?
Mutation is a way to produce new variations, entirely new genetic variations that could not be found by breeding existing strains. If we want to see something new and different we are much more likely to find it here than by breeding the old school way over and over. Mutation is what separated indica, sativa, and ruderalis who knows how long ago. Could make a new species could make a new strain, could make absolute crap, will for sure make a bunch of dead plants.

Just putting evolution into overdrive and seeing what happens.

Common breeding is about finding the plants that have desirable natural mutations, this would be about making new desirable mutations, once you have them you can go back to normal breeding to try to find a favorable combination with existing genetics.
 
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bryleetch

Well-Known Member
I've had the same idea, thought about trying just microwaving seeds and then some googling led me to a bunch of info on EMS, the much more professional way to mutate genes. I dont really have the set up to play scientist at the moment so I quickly scrapped the idea but maybe someday. Definitely would be interested in seeing someone actually make use of it on here for the name of science, but itd be a lot of work and no guarantee of any results.. You could germ 100 seeds hundreds of times and only get death and deformities in return
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I've had the same idea, thought about trying just microwaving seeds and then some googling led me to a bunch of info on EMS, the much more professional way to mutate genes. I dont really have the set up to play scientist at the moment so I quickly scrapped the idea but maybe someday. Definitely would be interested in seeing someone actually make use of it on here for the name of science, but itd be a lot of work and no guarantee of any results.. You could germ 100 seeds hundreds of times and only get death and deformities in return
From what I read it sounded like death wasn't the majority of the outcome if using proper dose. Real question is how many would you realistically need to go through to find anything worthwhile. 10's? I'm in. 100's I might be in, but going to likely take years to get good results. 1000's I might be in after it becomes legal here. More, only if I became a commercial breeder.

I would love to have a huge greenhouse, field, and lab so I could play mad scientist all day and make you all love me with the results.
 

bryleetch

Well-Known Member
Same here, I've been seriously considering pursuing a botany degree because theres so much to be done with this plant that researches either can't be bothered with or get funding for. I think further genome sequencing needs to be done and more funding should go to people aspiring to play mad scientist... I know this eventually leads to controversial gmo weed.. Monsanto... evil doers... end of world debate but as a man of science its too exciting to pass up
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Same here, I've been seriously considering pursuing a botany degree because theres so much to be done with this plant that researches either can't be bothered with or get funding for. I think further genome sequencing needs to be done and more funding should go to people aspiring to play mad scientist... I know this eventually leads to controversial gmo weed.. Monsanto... evil doers... end of world debate but as a man of science its too exciting to pass up
Agreed, but if much time passes I don't think we will need mutagens. A DNA printer, a special virus, and a database full of genome data (once actually understood) would let us program and bring to life our own custom DNA strands. A modified virus is tricked into injecting the DNA into a living cell where it replaces the existing DNA and if written correctly will continue to live and grow.

That is the real scary territory and we actually have everything we need to do it except the full understanding of the programming language used in DNA. That knowledge and a few tools and you have the power to create amazing things, including amazing wonderful things and amazing horrible to the point of Armageddon things. I would very much like to learn that programming language.

My first 3 projects:
Superweed
Mosquito (only) Killing virus
Replacement for Mosquito so all the frogs, bats, ... don't die.
 

bryleetch

Well-Known Member
yea seriously fuck mosquitos lol so dangerous though because a way more harmful pest could fill in that niche before you implemented a replacement. Probably the smoothest way would be for the replacement species to be the demise of the mosquito, whether that by predatory or carrying disease/virus to the mosquito. Some sort of virus that acted as a dna bomb would just be too unpredictable so it'd need to be gradual. Ecology is my second option to get my degree in haha
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
yea seriously fuck mosquitos lol so dangerous though because a way more harmful pest could fill in that niche before you implemented a replacement. Probably the smoothest way would be for the replacement species to be the demise of the mosquito, whether that by predatory or carrying disease/virus to the mosquito. Some sort of virus that acted as a dna bomb would just be too unpredictable so it'd need to be gradual. Ecology is my second option to get my degree in haha
Yep, smoothest way would be to change one gene, food source, and make that a dominant gene so it would always be passed down. Problem in the end is, what do you have them eat instead that won't cause problems with other populations?
 

Lysemith, Lowkey

Well-Known Member
When you are changing things on that scale certain collateral damage is going to happen like it or not. I hate to use the analogy but: to make an omelete, you have to break a few eggs.
 

bryleetch

Well-Known Member
Yep, smoothest way would be to change one gene, food source, and make that a dominant gene so it would always be passed down. Problem in the end is, what do you have them eat instead that won't cause problems with other populations?
Yea the food web would be completely manipulated and turned on its head. Each event would set off a chain reaction it'd be quite difficult to take into account how the removal of such a populous species would affect just a community let alone the biosphere as a whole. Easiest way would be let natural selection take its course, the fittest would find new food sources on their own and compete with any other species that they needed to in order to survive. Rapid population declines are pretty much inevitable at first
 

Lysemith, Lowkey

Well-Known Member
There is a gene printer in existence that allows you to print your own DNA, that coupled with the *relatively* simple process of using a bacterium or virus to insert that DNA into a living tissue culture, then growing that tissue culture out to see if the gene took or not. It is a tedious but very worthwhile process :) Imagine cannabis, the most efficient drug producing plant making DMT or Aspirin, or even antibiotics in crazy quantities!
 

bryleetch

Well-Known Member
There is a gene printer in existence that allows you to print your own DNA, that coupled with the *relatively* simple process of using a bacterium or virus to insert that DNA into a living tissue culture, then growing that tissue culture out to see if the gene took or not. It is a tedious but very worthwhile process :) Imagine cannabis, the most efficient drug producing plant making DMT or Aspirin, or even antibiotics in crazy quantities!
Get some good ol salicylic acid production going... be great for rooting clones!
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
There is a gene printer in existence that allows you to print your own DNA, that coupled with the *relatively* simple process of using a bacterium or virus to insert that DNA into a living tissue culture, then growing that tissue culture out to see if the gene took or not. It is a tedious but very worthwhile process :) Imagine cannabis, the most efficient drug producing plant making DMT or Aspirin, or even antibiotics in crazy quantities!
Most of that was just restating what I said. Is cannabis "the most efficient drug producing plant"? How do they exactly compare a opium poppy and a cannabis plant? Hell even tobacco is insanely potent when uncured.
 
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Lysemith, Lowkey

Well-Known Member
Poppies produce about 20% raw alkaloid, cannabis can produce more for a lot less input of resources.

Tobacco is insanely potent because raw nicotine is insanely potent. I don't know what ratios for drug production tobacco has, but I would bet it's about 5% raw yield in the leaf tissue.

It is a matter of conjecture and opinion. My opinion is that cannabis is our most efficient drug producing plant.
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Poppies produce about 20% raw alkaloid, cannabis can produce more for a lot less input of resources.

Tobacco is insanely potent because raw nicotine is insanely potent. I don't know what ratios for drug production tobacco has, but I would bet it's about 5% raw yield in the leaf tissue.

It is a matter of conjecture and opinion. My opinion is that cannabis is our most efficient drug producing plant.
One point I would argue, I doubt that you can get 20% cannaibinoid production when you weigh the whole plant, not just buds.
 

Lysemith, Lowkey

Well-Known Member
But it doesn't really matter because with genetic engineering we can have algae produce Botulism or even synthetic drugs like Fentanyl! There are no limitations!
 
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