GrowUrOwnDank
Well-Known Member
WHATEVA!
Dinafem is BOMB!
Dinafem is BOMB!
Ethics & Seeds
- Thread starter King Arthur
- Start date
thenotsoesoteric
Well-Known Member
WTF are you talking about? I'm talking about taking credit for other people's work as it is your own. All it takes is "Hey here's a white widow cross we made using so and so's workings of x plants." Like that shit is hard to do. I never said I didn't like any company, in fact I'm fucking smoking dinafem's power kush. Derrrp.
greenghost420
Well-Known Member
its piracy. sometimes you get the movies with dudes laughing or coughing thru the movie, thats basically the equivalent of tangerine dream from barneys farm being dreamy. everyone knows serious seeds ak47 is theirs, but theres a bunch of pirated ak47 to be had. think they took 2 new parents n made their version or made f2s/s1?
GrowUrOwnDank
Well-Known Member
Get over youself. The strains you thought were so great in your 20's and 30's are obsolete now. Your time has come and gone. So.. Embrace a new of breed of breeder. It's not you or those obsolete memories you cherish.
GrowUrOwnDank
Well-Known Member
If we all thought like you did we would all still be using Nokia Flip Phones. Get over it. That crap is obsolete. Your glory days are long gone pal.
see4
Well-Known Member
and where do you think those 'old school' breeders got their start? you think they magically farted out a seed and exclaimed, "I hereby call this strain AK47"?
more often than not, breeders get cuts and cross them or get a seed and a cut and cross. usually the seeds are not bag seed.. once in a rare while do you see that. i believe chemdawg was a bag seed, and so was ATF, and im sure there are others.
but without pollen chuckers, we wouldn't have some of the great strains we have today.
high horse. get off it.
DonPetro
Well-Known Member
Buy from a less expensive breeder who used original genetics
Often times much cheaper price wise and usually top genetics from top breeders are used. Like someone mentioned, there are often more desirable traits to be found in the crosses.
Beanhoarder is a good example.
Often times much cheaper price wise and usually top genetics from top breeders are used. Like someone mentioned, there are often more desirable traits to be found in the crosses.
Beanhoarder is a good example.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
It has nothing to do with high horse or holier than thou or w/e.
Pollen chuckers do not create strains, they create pheno hunt packs, which yes often contain much better phenos than the classic IBLs.
Supporting charlatans obviously doesn't lead to a better market with more and better strains.
Without actual breeders willing to put in the time and work and take the risk, those pollen chuckers would obviously have nothing to chuck either...
Pollen chuckers do not create strains, they create pheno hunt packs, which yes often contain much better phenos than the classic IBLs.
Supporting charlatans obviously doesn't lead to a better market with more and better strains.
Without actual breeders willing to put in the time and work and take the risk, those pollen chuckers would obviously have nothing to chuck either...
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
I see a lot of talk about what is "Good for the market" and "Good for the breeders" but not much talk about what is "Good for the average grower". What I consider "Good for the average grower" is choice. Are "Original" genetics better than "Pollen chucked" genetics? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, both options should be out there. If I want to gamble on cheap seeds, that should be my right as a consumer. Both options have been available for a while, and it seems that, as we would expect, people who want very specific verified genetics can and do still do the work necessary to get them, as evidenced by some of the more mind blowing clone only strains floating around, as well as the availability of beans directly from breeders. I'm always going to be on the side of the little guy who maybe can't afford $100+ for 5 seeds, and who maybe doesn't have a whole year to grow out two strains and cross them for his own f1's, before I'm on the side of two very successful businessmen who don't want someone selling a derivative of their products for cheap.
SeedHo
Well-Known Member
just admit it you don`t wont to do the breeders research and development, and you don`t care if they did use sissy bobs mother cut and grizzly bear jane`s cut for the dad. i hear ya!
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
Chemdawg and Chem Sis were both bagseed from a greadful dead show, Princess (Precursor to cindy99) was Jack Herer bagseed, Gorilla Glue #4 is herm pollen bagseed from Sour Dubb and Chem Sis (So kinda second generation bagseed). Bagseed (Often because of f1 hybrid vigor) can turn out stunning for sure.
greenghost420
Well-Known Member
i didnt offer my opinion, this is how the seed game works. people ripping others' work. im not in it for glory either...
ak47 was just an example of one thats been reproduced alot.we havent touched on the renaming of others "work". but i refuse to get off my HIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH horse...
Buy from a less expensive breeder who used original genetics was my vote.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Variety and competition is typically good for the consumer. I wouldn't mind one bit, considering the extra work that is put in, if a company charges more for a strain that has been worked and desirable traits locked down. At the other end of the spectrum, cheaper seeds that are more of the F1 pollen chuck variety. Those should generally be less expensive.
Doesn't always work this way though. The F1 dujour can often fetch $100+ per pack, and we're able to pick up well worked lines like C-99 and Killing Fields for $30 a pack.
Seems ass backwards to me. Where is the incentive for breeders to work their lines?
eastcoastmo
Well-Known Member
I'm with a lot of people in here. I try to get original breeders beans IF possible. I live in Australia so I don't have access to clone only strains so if there is a particular strain I want to try and it's only offered as a cross from another reputable breeder, I'll go with them. At the moment I'm trying to source some of the Ogs that you lucky buggers in the US have access too but my only option is to buy crosses or BX's of the originals (if they are truly the originals used) in seed form. While I'm empathetic towards people like DJ Short etc, I have to with what is available to me and is not going to cost me my house to buy!
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
Well, in one way that kinda makes sense. Once a line has been stabilized, it's very easy to make more seeds, and that plethora of seeds drives prices down. True F1s (Not S1 or F2) of the same batch will all mature at the same time (even sativa dom phenos and indica dom phenos), and have greater vigour than either of the parents (If they don't then it wasn't actually an F1), but the plants that share those characteristics will be limited to that ONE batch of F1s (By batch I means seeds from one specific male bred to one specific female, not all the seeds in a multi-plant run), and so their limited quantity would drive prices up.
EDIT: To answer your last question about incentive, the incentive is to make up for the reduced price with increased volume, if your seeds breed true WAY more people will buy them and even at $30 a pack you'll make more than the people selling unstable packs for $100. The profit margin once you have stabilized the seeds and are just mass producing them is unbelievable if you think about how many seeds a single plant can produce.
jj6077
Active Member
"Real breeders". LOL. In my personal experience, the only thing that you as a buyer should be concerned about is how much effort and work he put into making the beans. Pollen chucking and selling beans for low price is a much more efficient way of discovering new genetics rather than following an elite breeder and begging for testers. I hate how everyone believes that its a godsend for a breeder to let you test seeds. THAT IS WORK!! and basically research and development. Prices being low offers an alternative to those who do not log into such websites as this in order to ask for some freebies of topdawg. Ever since I got my hands dirty and actually became more involved in the canna community did i find out that the seed industry is a bunch of grown ass men fighting like little children on what they think is conceptually correct. Free the goddamn herb already.
GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
Personally I'll take the original breeder. I might not say this right (so go easy on me if I don't say it right) but if you take a sativa and cross it with an indica and buy those seeds from the original breeder. You will get certain number of phenos and in certain ratios. Now if another breeder wants to copy it. The best they can do is buy the same seeds you would be buying from the original breeder. Then they grow them out and by selection they use those kids to create seeds they sell you for less. NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO the results from those seeds will not yield the same number of phenos in the same ratio. There is ONLY one way to do that and that REQUIRES cuttings from the original parents. I'm not saying that the genetics aren't in there because they are. But I believe you'll find the results of the cheap seeds will give you more phenos with greater differences between the phenos. Now if they continue working the line they can narrow that down but as much as that selection breeds towards what the new company likes------ is that what you like? Or do you like the traits that they a depressing? If you don't buy the original there are expressions that you might not see without growing a greater number of plants if at all.
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What that can be good and bad.
I like that some of these companies will take the strain and work it for a few generations breeding for the traits they desire.
Some of the companies that have been mentioned have put a lot of work into the strains even if they were someone else's strains.
There are some breeders who even encourage continuing their strains and/or using them in crosses.
I enjoy both things, the pheno hunt and having consistency. My normal batches consist of 1 or 2 fems, then 4-6 regs. I like for those 1 or 2 fems to be consistent, so I know what I am getting. Then I can work with the others and pick and choose. There is room for both types of companies.
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
You are correct, but you just described F1 genetics, not a stabilized line. It is just Mendelian, F1 has a couple phenos, F2 has a TON, by the time you get to F7+ you can usually isolate traits to appear with reliability and could possibly narrow it down to a single phenotype.
GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
I hear you. I have a dinafem original amnesia that was a freebie. I still have it but one of these days I'm going to figure out who exactly they ripped off and dig into those genetics myself. But with all this talk of money let's not forget not only are the original breeders doing the hard work. But they are selling them to you fairly reasonable and once you buy a pack you could have it forever. There's only a few companies I think really want to rake you over the coals and one is dr greenthumb. I've only bought from original breeders. And I still have everyone that I liked. From those at no extra charge I can make as many crosses as I like with original genetics until I die if I choose. In reality they are giving you a gift that will keep giving to you for as long as you wish for no extra cost to you. Now if you only have a couple of fluorescent lights I would probably think differently.