DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Did some more reading today...

Thanks to matt in the organics forum for posting a link to this information about molasses neutralizing chlorine and chloramine.

"Chloramine in municipal water for brewing compost/vermicompost tea
Easy Peasy, ascorbic acid will solve the problem. 3 grams in 100 gallons will treat up to 3PPM."


Tom Jasewski


"I decided to do the same to put my arguement that reducing sugars in the molasses would handle the
chlorine and chloramine.

I found my city water to have 0.5ppm free and 1.5 ppm of
free and total chlorine,respectively. Testing 1 gal and 5 gal of city water, I added 1/4 teaspoon of molasses to each. The reaction was not instantaneous but the kinetics were faster than I would have guessed.
The one gallon reaction showed no dectable chlorine of either type withing 3 minutes. At 5 gallons, I obtained the same result within 20 minutes."

Ron C (retired lab technician)

"Chlorine levels are regulated a 4 ppm maximum
4 ppm = 4mg/l
Chloramine concentrations are expressed as chlorine equivalents, so one uses the molecular weight of chlorine for calculations.
One molecule of reducing sugar will react with one molecule of chlorine.
Therefore, on a weight basis, one needs 4mg/l *(the molecular weight of the reducing sugar/the molecular weight of chlorine)/ (the decimal fraction of reducing sugar in your molasses)
I’ve seen numbers ranging from 15% to 50% for the percent reducing sugar in molasses
The reducing sugars are going to be a mixture of mono and disaccharides. Molecular weights = 180 and 342, respectively
Chlorine molecular weight =70
Therefore, worst case, one needs 4*(342/70)/.15 =130mg/L molasses
I saw a recipe by Elaine that calls for 1 oz molasses in 5 gallons. That’s 1 part in 640 or 1563 ppm .
So, worse case you have a 12 fold excess.

When i need dilution water for spraying, I use a 20-30 ppm glucose and let it sit overnight.


I continue to be perplexed by the amount of hand wringing that goes on over chlorine and chloramine. These both function as oxidizing agents and, as such, are destroyed by reducing agents."
Click to expand...
Also found this information from vintagerosery.com on teas.

Throughout the U.S., chloramine (a combination of chlorine and ammonia) has been added to the public water systems as a disinfectant. Chloramine will kill the beneficial forms of bacteria in the compost tea. Unlike chlorine, it remains in the water through an aeration process or letting it stand overnight. It must be neutralized by adding a water conditioner.

Since chloramine can be deadly to fish, most fish and pet stores carry water conditioners. One brand is Tetra's AquaSafe. It is labeled to neutralize chlorine, chloramine, ammonia and various other chemicals. Apply per the label, which should say 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons.
Click to expand...
So it seems using this conditioner will not harm bennies.

And an answer to this old chestnut

Once the tea is ready, will continued aeration keep the organisms alive? Yes, but only for a short while. Research has shown that at the end of three days, a ten-fold reduction in organism numbers and 90% reduction in activity occurred. One study attempting to extend the shelf life of compost tea continued to add food along with constant aeration. At the end of five days, a serious reduction in diversity of the organisms was found. Adding food resources tends to out-strip the ability of aeration to maintain aerobic conditions. These teas would be less likely to benefit plants than younger, more diverse teas.

The process of brewing compost tea must stay aerobic. Non-beneficial organisms can grow more rapidly in reduced oxygen conditions. Anaerobic teas can result in the growth of some particularly harmful bacteria and is not recommended. Aerobic compost tea does not contain human pathogens.
Click to expand...
And over at soilfoodweb.com there is always something more to be learned.

Mycorrhizal fungi – need roots to germinate and grow successfully. Humic acids can improve germination, but then the germinated fungus has to rapidly find a root to colonize or it will die. Spore inocula exist for all kinds of mycorrhizal fungi. Make sure you have the kind needed for your plant. Make certain to get the spores into the root system of the plant.
Click to expand...
Remember that most sources make a clear distinction between soil fungus and mycorrhizal fungi. For our purposes of fighting slime we only really care about the mycos, but you do get other soil fungi from the ancient forest. We don't really care too much about which organisms are present in the tea, as long as it is diverse enough to beat the slime, but for the sake of information I found the following interesting.

Fungi – add fungal foods, such as complex sugars, amino sugars, complex proteins, soy bean meal, fish hydrolysate, fish oils, cellulose, lignin, cutins, humic acids, fulvic acids, wood, paper or cardboard. The more kinds of fungal foods that are present, the greater the diversity of fungal species will grow. There are no fungal inocula on the market. Yeasts are rarely useful fungal species in soil, or at least there is little data to support their usefulness.
Click to expand...
 
T

tman420

Member
Well I was looking in to the aqua safe ( makes tap water safe for fish) It says that neutralizes chlorine,chlormines,and heavy metals harmful to fish. How aquasafe works substances in tap water that are dangerous to fish are removed or neutralizes : chlorine is eliminated and heavy metals such as copper zinc and iron neutralizes. Slime coating is provided : unique colloid ingredients protect gills and delicate membranes , helps wounds heal and protect from abrasion. Bio extract formula works to enhance bacteriological bed which promotes cleaner water. The principal ingredients are sodium hydroxymethane sulfate, chelating compounds, polyvinyl pyrolldones, seaweed biopolymers ,organic hydrocolloids. So I guess the only thing that would concern me would be the sulfate. So with this brew I just used the hydro logic filter and slowed the gph rate way down to hopefully remove all of the chloramines. Or should I add a drop of the aqua safe to the tea now? Or is it to late is this batch junk? This is another question for you My hydro logic filter did not seen to remove any ppm form the tap water is that normal? Is there something wrong with the filter I just bought?
 
T

tman420

Member
Man I am sorry for all the question but it is finally nice to be able to talk to people about my growing. Here is my question I have snow storm ultra. I remember reading you use it as a spray. Why? And when do you start to use it at what mix ratio ? Also do ever have a cal mag problem and if so what do you use to fix I am currently using cal mag by botanicare and was wondering if I can use it as a spray to fix the problem faster? what are the benefits of spraying the plant rather then adding nuts to Rez.
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
tman420 said:
Man I am sorry for all the question but it is finally nice to be able to talk to people about my growing. Here is my question I have snow storm ultra. I remember reading you use it as a spray. Why? And when do you start to use it at what mix ratio ? Also do ever have a cal mag problem and if so what do you use to fix I am currently using cal mag by botanicare and was wondering if I can use it as a spray to fix the problem faster? what are the benefits of spraying the plant rather then adding nuts to Rez.
Click to expand...
Snow Storm Ultra helps with trichome production and gives a slight boost to K. I have used it both as a foilar spray and as a rez additive. The foilar certainly works better I feel and requires less. Mix no more than 5ml/gallon with water and a surfactant and spray every 3-4 days. I start to use it just at the end of the veg/flower transition, when it is going full force into flower. Not necessary to use it in veg. You can use it throughout flower as long as you have proper airflow to prevent moisture pockets in your dense buds. This is really only a concern about half way through flower and on.

As for your calmag question, if you are experiencing deficiencies due to your RO filter or strain requirements, the botanicare cal/mag should be fine. I don't believe it would be effective as a foilar spray since calcium and magnesium are not primary elements and have limited mobility. Plus after a while you would likely have a residue or powder all over your plant. If you were thinking of using cal/mag as a foilar because you are seeing some leaf damage, it's too late for those leaves. Best you can do is correct your system and try to give your grow a stress-free environment from hereon out.

cheers and good luck
mr.bond
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
Did some more reading today... Thanks to matt in the organics forum for posting a link to this information about molasses neutralizing chlorine and chloramine.
Click to expand...
Great find Heisenberg, and thanks Matt Rize for dropping this info. So if I'm understanding this correctly, I suppose I could make the tea with normal tap water -- add the tap water and molasses to the bucket and bubble for 20 minutes... thus negating the chlorine/chloramine, then add the bennies and start the 48hr. brew. I'll give it a shot on my next tea brew.

cheers
mr.bond
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
tman420 said:
Well I was looking in to the aqua safe ( makes tap water safe for fish) It says that neutralizes chlorine,chlormines,and heavy metals harmful to fish. How aquasafe works substances in tap water that are dangerous to fish are removed or neutralizes : chlorine is eliminated and heavy metals such as copper zinc and iron neutralizes. Slime coating is provided : unique colloid ingredients protect gills and delicate membranes , helps wounds heal and protect from abrasion. Bio extract formula works to enhance bacteriological bed which promotes cleaner water. The principal ingredients are sodium hydroxymethane sulfate, chelating compounds, polyvinyl pyrolldones, seaweed biopolymers ,organic hydrocolloids. So I guess the only thing that would concern me would be the sulfate. So with this brew I just used the hydro logic filter and slowed the gph rate way down to hopefully remove all of the chloramines. Or should I add a drop of the aqua safe to the tea now? Or is it to late is this batch junk? This is another question for you My hydro logic filter did not seen to remove any ppm form the tap water is that normal? Is there something wrong with the filter I just bought?
Click to expand...
Good research. It seems although a conditioner may be safe for the bennies, we do not really know what effect it would have on the nutes. I am guessing that it would be so diluted and inert by then that it wouldn't matter. Anyway it looks like our regular dose of molasses is enough to neutralize the water, so no real need for a conditioner, and in the end, pure water is still the best choice.
 
T

tman420

Member
Well my tea has brewing for 24 hours now.. And has good foam build up. There is a lot of the A N of the side walls of the bucket. Should I scape back into the water? Also I gues that since the foam is there that just the hydro logic filter is suited well to filter all chlormines out of the water. If it ever comes into question again. Also tea does kinda have a good smell to it. Filled the whole room with smell.
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
tman, sounds like your tea is progressing well. if you have sediment building up on the sides of the buckets from it floating at water level, yeah just knock it back in the water. it will just collect again there later. does your tea smell like brown sugar? lol

cheers
mr.bond
 
T

tman420

Member
The one tea that I made with just great white and the brown sugar lol yes it does but the tea that I made with the molasses smells earthy so to say. That is the smell that has filled the room. But that tea also has AN in it too. Also I have a 20 gallon top off Rez that tops of the controlle bucket which in turn tops off the whole system (30 gallon system). So should I put the tea in the top off Rez?
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
No I wouldn't worry about the top-off rez. Leave it as just pure water from your RO. Technically you could inoculate your top-off rez, but you would have to add something into the rez for the bennies to colonize on, like lava rocks or hydroton, since there are no roots. You could also risk making a certain organism dominant in the top-off rez and then have it constantly overtake the diverse tea in your system. Unlikely but possible, better to keep it simple IMO.

cheers
mr.bond
 
T

tman420

Member
Thank you mr bond for the answer to that question. You settled a debet that me and the wife were having. But since I just planted the clones into the system and roots are not poking out yet. Should I wait to use the tea on that system? Another question there too should I do the 1 cup to 6 gallon ratio or 1 cup every gallon and 1 cup every 3 day ratio?
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
You're welcome. Since you are using a recirculating system, you could start with 1 cup per every 10 gallons. Add this much every 3 days. You don't really need to add the tea to your system until the roots are in the water, BUT you want to inoculate each plant as soon as possible. The easiest way to do this is to pour your tea through the netcups to inoculate each plant's root crown and mini-root-ball. That should give them a jumpstart as the myco takes hold. Obviously by doing this you will be inadvertently inoculating the whole system too, so make sure you top up with more tea after 3 days, and every 3 days after.
 
T

tman420

Member
And then when the roots hit the water do the initial cup per gallon on rez change and every three days a cup per six gallons through the net pots ?
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
1 cup per gallon is a strong dose for fighting slime and disease. If you aren't fighting slime, use less. A normal maintenance dosage for your recirculating system would be 1 cup per 5-10 gallons.

Pour your first batch (1 cup per 5-10 gallons) through the netpots, into your system. Refresh the system 3 days later with another dose (1 cup per 5-10 gallons). Repeat.
 
phxfire

phxfire

New Member
mr.bond said:
1 cup per gallon is a strong dose for fighting slime and disease. If you aren't fighting slime, use less. A normal maintenance dosage for your recirculating system would be 1 cup per 5-10 gallons.

Pour your first batch (1 cup per 5-10 gallons) through the netpots, into your system. Refresh the system 3 days later with another dose (1 cup per 5-10 gallons). Repeat.
Click to expand...
I read... What kind of tea?? Does this matter?
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
So you read it and didn't see it? The frickin' recipe is the first post on the first page of this thread! And mentioned like 20 more times throughout the thread. Either you didn't actually read the first page, or maybe just need to brush up on your second grade english... lol

heres something to get you started:

 
phxfire

phxfire

New Member
truthfully I have never heard of Compost Tea....


mr.bond said:
So you read it and didn't see it? The frickin' recipe is the first post on the first page of this thread! And mentioned like 20 more times throughout the thread. Either you didn't actually read the first page, or maybe just need to brush up on your second grade english... lol

heres something to get you started:

Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top