DWC and Plastic ! A Hydroponic Growers Nightmare or Dream ?

Discussion in 'DWC/ Bubbleponics' started by Flo Grow, Oct 26, 2010.

  1.  
    Flo Grow

    Flo Grow Well-Known Member

    Lots of us DWC growers use regular, non-food grade 5 gallon buckets from Lowes/Home Depot and the hydro shops.
    FDA approved food grade buckets ARE NOT BLACK because of the paint/plastic used to make buckets of that color.
    Is the plastic these regular buckets are made from, harmful to us and possibly our plants ? YES
    Do they have chemical reactions with certain nutrient solutions ? YES
    Non-food grade buckets DO and WILL leech their plastic into your nute solution and marijuana plants !
    Maybe nothing noticeably taking place right away to cause alarm, but using those buckets for an extended period can't be good either.
    There are even food grade 5gal buckets to store certain types of food and liquid.
    Like those that are highly acidic.

    I, myself, use an Igloo Marine cooler.
    Coolers ARE FDA food grade approved, and cause no harm to humans or the environment like regular 5gal buckets !
    Therefore they cause no chemical reactions or leeching !

    This should be a very interesting read and learning experience !
    Please keep comments and posts adult-like !
    We will have different opinions from others, so remember and respect that please.
    If this turns into a troll-a-thon, then you will be removed from this thread !
    Only I possess absolute power, since this is MY THREAD ! lmao



    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]When the subject of brining comes up, people ask what kinds of containers can be used to hold the brining solution and meat. The usual answer is a non-reactive container made from plastic, ceramic, glass, stainless steel, or anodized aluminum (not regular aluminum). Plastic containers are most popular because they are widely available in sizes large enough to hold a whole turkey, a commonly brined meat.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]But are all plastic containers appropriate for contact with your food during brining?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]What Is Plastic?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Plastic is made from hydrocarbons derived from petroleum or natural gas. The hydrocarbons are formed into chains called polymers, or plastic resins. By combining hydrocarbon molecules in different ways, different types of plastic can be created.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]What Is Food Grade Plastic?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) requires that plastics used in food packaging be of greater purity than plastics used for non-food packaging. This is commonly referred to as food grade plastic. Plastics used to package pharmaceuticals are held to an even higher standard than food grade.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Food grade plastic does not contain dyes or recycled plastic deemed harmful to humans. However, this does not mean that food grade plastic cannot contain recycled plastic. The FDA has detailed regulations concerning recycled plastics in food packaging.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Another aspect of food grade plastic is matching the appropriate type of plastic to the food in question. Foods that are highly acidic or that contain alcohol or fats can leach plastic additives from the packaging or container into the food. As a result, you should only use plastic containers that are FDA approved for the particular type of food the plastic will come into contact with.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Finally, it should be noted that a plastic container can no longer be considered food grade if it has been used to store non-food items like chemicals, paint, or detergent.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Types Of Plastic[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]In the United States, the following codes represent the seven categories of plastic used in nearly all plastic containers and product packaging:[/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]PET or PETE (polyethylene terephthalate) is a clear, tough polymer with exceptional gas and moisture barrier properties. PET's ability to contain carbon dioxide (carbonation) makes it ideal for use in soft drink bottles.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Examples: Soft drink bottles, detergent bottles
    [/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]HDPE (high density polyethylene) is used in milk, juice and water containers in order to take advantage of its excellent protective barrier properties. Its chemical resistance properties also make it well suited for items such as containers for household chemicals and detergents. Most five gallon food buckets are made from HDPE.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Examples: Milk bottles, shopping bags
    [/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Vinyl (polyvinyl chloride, or PVC) provides excellent clarity, puncture resistance and cling. As a film, vinyl can breathe just the right amount, making it ideal for packaging fresh meats that require oxygen to ensure a bright red surface while maintaining an acceptable shelf life.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Examples: Plastic food wrap, shrink wrap, garden hoses, shoe soles
    [/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]LDPE (low density polyethylene) offers clarity and flexibility. It is used to make bottles that require flexibility. To take advantage of its strength and toughness in film form, it is used to produce grocery bags and garbage bags, shrink and stretch film, and coating for milk cartons.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Examples: Squeeze bottles, dry cleaning bags
    [/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]PP (polypropylene) has high tensile strength, making it ideal for use in caps and lids that have to hold tightly on to threaded openings. Because of its high melting point, polypropylene can be hot-filled with products designed to cool in bottles, including ketchup and syrup. It is also used for products that need to be incubated, such as yogurt. Many Cambo, Tupperware and Rubbermaid food storage containers are made from PP.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]E[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]xamples: Bottle caps, take-out food containers, drinking straws
    [/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]PS (polystyrene), in its crystalline form, is a colorless plastic that can be clear and hard. It can also be foamed to provide exceptional insulation properties. Foamed or expanded polystyrene (EPS) is used for products such as meat trays, egg cartons and coffee cups. It is also used for packaging and protecting appliances, electronics and other sensitive products.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Examples: Plastic foam, packing peanuts, coat hangers
    [/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Other[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica] denotes plastics made from other types of resin or from several resins mixed together. These usually cannot be recycled.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Another important type of plastic is polycarbonate, a clear shatter-resistant material used in restaurant food storage containers and recently in the Rubbermaid Stain Shield line of home food storage containers.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Why do we need different types of plastics, anyway? This excerpt from the American Plastics Council website explains it well.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]"Copper, silver and aluminum are all metals, yet each has unique properties. You wouldn't make a car out of silver or a beer can out of copper because the properties of these metals are not chemically or physically able to create the most effective final product. Likewise, while plastics are all related, each resin has attributes that make it best suited to a particular application. Plastics make this possible because as a material family they are so versatile."[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Not All HDPE Containers Are Food Grade[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]There is a common misconception that all containers made of white plastic or HDPE plastic bearing the [​IMG] symbol are food grade containers. This is not true.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]If you are considering the purchase of a container from some place other than a kitchen or restaurant supply store, and the container is not clearly labeled as "food safe" or being made of food grade plastic, then you should assume that it is not food grade and you should not brine in it—unless you line it with a food grade plastic bag.[/FONT]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Plastic Containers For Brining[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Any food grade HDPE, PP, or polycarbonate container is appropriate for brining. These materials can withstand the salt, acids (e.g. orange juice, Coca-Cola), and alcohol (e.g. beer, booze) used in flavor brines.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]As a general rule:[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Food storage containers sold at restaurant supply stores are made of food grade HDPE, PP, or polycarbonate.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The interior of ice chests are made of food grade HDPE.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Any white, opaque plastic bucket that contains food for human consumption is made of food grade HDPE.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]When in doubt, ask the seller or manufacturer if the container is made of food grade plastic.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Here are a few examples of plastic brining containers I've acquired over the years:[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Picture 1 shows a 4-gallon white HDPE bucket that originally contained barbecue sauce. A local restaurant gives these buckets away free to customers. I removed any lingering odors and stains using the procedure described at the end of this article.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Picture 2 shows a Rubbermaid 48-quart ice chest. The interior of ice chests are made of food grade HDPE and are safe for brining.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Picture 3 shows a Cambro brand 8-quart PP food storage container. I bought it for $8 at a restaurant supply store.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Picture 4 shows a Cambro brand 18-quart polycarbonate food storage container. I bought it for $19 at a restaurant supply store.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]You can often get food grade HDPE buckets at restaurants, delis, and bakeries free for the asking. Think pickles, barbecue sauce, soy sauce, chocolate syrup, strawberry puree, shortening--all these things come in food grade plastic buckets.[/FONT]
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    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Plastic Bags For Brining[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Sometimes brining in a food grade plastic bag is more convenient and takes less space in the refrigerator than using a bulky plastic container.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Regular Ziploc bags can be used safely for brining. The one-gallon size can be used for small cuts of meat like pork chops, chicken pieces, while the two-gallon size will accommodate a whole or butterflied chicken. Just put the meat in the bag, add the brine, zip the top, and place in a mixing bowl in the fridge for support and to catch any leaks (Picture 1).[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]For items like a whole turkey, large food grade plastic bags will do the trick (Picture 2). One such product is the Reynolds Oven Bag for Turkey. This bag can be used as a liner inside any non-food grade plastic container. In fact, you can add plain water outside the bag to displace some of the volume of the container, thus reducing the amount of brine needed inside the bag.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Another product is Ziploc Big Bags XL. These thick, sturdy bags are designed to store anything, including food, and are made of the same food grade plastic as regular Ziploc bags. They measure 2' x 1.7' and hold up to 10 gallons. They include built-in handles and a pleated bottom that allows the bag stand up on its own.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Both Reynolds Oven Bag for Turkey and Ziploc Big Bags XL are available at supermarkets and discount stores on the aisle where you find regular Ziploc bags.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Some kitchen supply stores and catalogs sell disposable plastic bags designed for turkey brining. They are made of food grade plastic, but tend to be very expensive compared to the bags shown above.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Plastics To Avoid[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]If you know that a plastic container or bag is not made of food grade material, you should not use it for brining. If you cannot determine the food grade status of a container or bag, you should assume it is not food grade and not use it for brining.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Examples include:[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]HDPE white plastic containers of unknown food grade status[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Garbage cans or pails[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Mop buckets[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Laundry detergent or kitty litter buckets[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Dry pet food buckets[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]5-gallon utility buckets from the home center[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Household storage containers[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Garbage bags[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Any container—even if made of food grade plastic—that has been used to store non-food items like chemicals, paint, or detergent[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Removing Odors And Stains From HDPE Buckets[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Since HDPE buckets are somewhat porous, they can hold odors and stains from foods like pickles or barbecue sauce. If you score a free bucket from a restaurant, try this cleaning routine suggested by USA Emergency Supply. It has worked pretty well for me.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Wash the bucket inside and out with warm, soapy water, then rinse.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Place the bucket outside in a sunny location.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Pour 1 cup of baking soda into the bucket and fill with warm water all the way to the top. Stir to dissolve, then put on the lid, or cover with aluminum foil.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Let the bucket sit in the sun for several days, then empty and rinse out.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Pour 1 cup of bleach into the bucket and fill with warm water all the way to the top. Stir to mix, then put on the lid, or cover with aluminum foil.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Let the bucket sit in the sun for several days, then empty.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Wash again inside and out with warm water and dishwashing liquid, then let dry with the lid off.[/FONT]

  2.  
    rowlman

    rowlman Well-Known Member

    mmmmm...I love plastic
  3.  
    disposition84

    disposition84 Well-Known Member

    Can't be that much of a nightmare with as many people as I've seen have successful
    grows with various containers from Lowes/HD. Never had any adverse effects myself
    either. What you're saying makes sense though.
  4.  
    booort

    booort Active Member

    Sorry to bump this old thread, but this was the best info I could find here on food grade plastic containers for RDWC here on RollItUp. Let me know if I am out of line by posting these questions here in an old thread like this.

    Curious if any hydro growers out there have seen any ill effects from using non food grade containers to hold the netpots or as a reservoir(s). Had a discussion with a hydro shop guy about how bad using anything other than food grade is horrible for your buds and you inevitably ingest toxins when smoking products that were grown in Rubbermaid containers and such. Interesting that the food grade 5 gallon buckets they were selling were all black (contradicts this post saying FDA approved food grade isn't black). Maybe things have changed in the 3 years since this post was initially made.

    I am thinking any significant leaching of toxins from the plastic would take a long period of time, like over a year. Been trying to find more info on the subject, but my google skills are not so good and thought I'd just ask here after searching the forums here.

    DWC/RDWC growers - In your opinion, is food grade plastic for containers and reservoir still very important - yes/no?

    Asking because I'm going to rebuild my rdwc system and am considering using the cheap 27 gallon containers: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-27-gal-Tote-207585/202328879#.Us88DLSJ6Q4
    Buying a food grade plastic reservoir with a lid is $150-$200 depending on size. I'd need to start with food grade plastic containers to house the plants/netpots and those suckers are $100+ for a 20 gallon container. $400 for new food grade container (pair of 20 gallon w/lids and res) vs $36 at Costco for roughly the same volume. Also I'm a little intimidated to spend this kind of cash and then drill holes for pvc/tubing....This last year I screwed up so many 5 gallon buckets and wasted 2 igloo ice chests trying to fit bulkheads.
  5.  
    Bucees

    Bucees Well-Known Member

    No and it never has been. You are ingesting more PPB of toxic chemical compounds by taking a breath in a small city than your plant will absorb from a bucket. This kind of bunk is akin to not using Potassium because it's radioactive. Sure in high levels it can fucking kill you, but so can pretty much everything else. I would suggest using the cheap buckets. Don't eat the buckets after your grow is finished and you should be fine.
  6.  
    booort

    booort Active Member

    LOL...thanks Bucees, appreciate the reply - this is the response I was hoping for.
  7.  
    Ibex

    Ibex Active Member

    I didnt use food grade bucket, tubing, rez, netpots, or hydroton and I had no ill effects ;)
  8.  
    Crispy Bacon

    Crispy Bacon Member

    Thanks for taking the time to make this post but the idea the plastic is absorbed by the plants is retarded imo. Have grown and seen grown many of nice buds that smoked perfectly fine...

    Have some going now..
  9.  
    Bucees

    Bucees Well-Known Member

    After I re-read that quote it sounded like I was being a smart ass. Looks like another failed attempt at humor for me!

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