Dutchmasters Reverse,a study of hermie's.

Thanks heaps for all the work you put into this, I'm gonna try to use this to feminise some autos I got going. Just to be clear, I should spray when I see the first pre flowers or do you think that would be to late? Being autos they it's alittle harder to guess when they are about to start budding.

if you have had trouble with hermies from this plant I would say spray once about 1-2 weeks out from flower than again right as she goes in. if no trouble, than spray once she gets in and again in 10 days. But I would think u r safe spraying when you see preflowers. just dont dilute the stuff and make sure you use the penetrator.

smokeybandit22 said:

if you have had trouble with hermies from this plant I would say spray once about 1-2 weeks out from flower than again right as she goes in. if no trouble, than spray once she gets in and again in 10 days. But I would think u r safe spraying when you see preflowers. just dont dilute the stuff and make sure you use the penetrator.

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Thanks heaps, I have high hopes for this stuff, I'm only starting with 3 plants, and having them all turn out to be males would be kinda like having 3 gay sons (not that there is anything wrong with that )...............

did you actually read all this thread, or jump in on the last page ?

DaveTheNewbie said:

did you actually read all this thread, or jump in on the last page ?

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Yeah, I read the whole thing, except maybe the last page. I been hanging around the forums for a few months now, just trying to take in all the info. Only just started my grow though.

hey there all just spent the last two hours reading entire thread and thought that i might be able to shed some light , the actice ingredient in the reverse is derived from a product called floral we have been using the product commercial in the production of seedless watermelon ect. The product floral used at the right time will stop/knockdown male pollen and then used again when seed production starts it will stop seed production the product does work but sometimes not to full that is why you will see some small with seeds in seedless watermelon the products listed in title use the same idea but from what i read on bottles it is in very low doses compared to what we use so these products could be hit and miss depending on time of use also our product florel is also used in waterings aswell as a foliar feed i have used florel on mj and it works well but must be used in very small doses otherwise is give leaf curl and some buning even when used in lights off this may be why it is in such small doses hope this has helped in some way

I was about to buy some of this stuff because I just saw 3 banannas on my GreenHouse White Widow feminized. I am in week 4 of flower and this is one of 12 feminized green house plants, plus one fem g-13 pure power and a white widow fem from g-13. All I did was spray the nannas with water and pluck them off. My last grow I had a similar problem when a sour d female started to show intersex. I pulled her out at week 7 of flower instead of week 9 like the rest of them. She still produced good smoke with no seeds, just the ocasional nanna. This time though it seems to be happening 2-3 weeks sooner than my last encounter with an intersexed female. Thanks for all your research and info guys. + Rep

hey panhead how can i pm you i have you added as a friend but i cant pm and i do have a few question for you since you seen to really know what you talk about . thx in advance

The ingredients as stated on the label in DM reverse is more of a distraction to the chemical that is doing all the work. Its name is ethephon (chloroethylphosphonic acid). Ethephon used in the correct dosage causes ethelene stored in plants to be released. I am guessing that the vagueness of DM to put the real contents on its labels is more to do with the history of how some of its other products were ripped off in the past (Superbud) rather than snake oil sales. In fact this type of method of hiding the contents has become somewhat the norm amongst these types of suppliers. The list of K based ingredients is related to the 'other' stuff, the phosphonic acid side of chloroethylphosphonic acid (ethephon).

The secret to ethephon is the pH range it works in. Which is why DM now sells Reverse in a ready to use state, no water added, so that the pH is set exactly where it is supposed to be.

Ethephon endogenously releases the natural stores of chloride, phosphates and ethylene gas in plants. Ethylene is a female hormone so when used in correct doses it will in a sense 'feminize' a plant.

Ethephon is found in a lot of products used by commercial growers, it seems that DM has repackaged it as DM Reverse.

It is also important to note that the correct usage is very important when using plant growth regulators (PGRs). You hear a lot of growers over using these types of products thinking that it will, in this case, make their plants more female by applying it twice that as stipulated on the label, or sometimes three times the instructions. What a lot of growers do not realise is that these growth regulators have a dual use in the horticulture industry. In weak dosages such as DM Reverse, PGRs are used to slow plant stretch, promote larger stems, feminize plants etc etc, but at more concentrated levels many of these PGRs are used as herbicides.

An example of this are the range of auxin based products sold in cannabis stores like Nitrozyme. Sold as a PGR to stimulate cellular division, it works well. But the same auxins that work to stimulate cellular division are also used in concentrated form in herbicides, the most famous are the synthetic auxin sprays used in Vietnam. Even a quick read of the Wiki page on Agent Orange yields this information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

"The earliest form of the compound triiodobenzoic acid was studied by Arthur Galston as a plant growth hormone."

Just a quiet warning to stick to what is on the label.

Good reading. Only Superbud wasn't ripped off (pretty basic stuff anyway and Dutchmaster just used other peoples products, banged them in a bottle and then lied to the consumer telling them that the poison was based around proprietary phospholipid technology and humatic isolates - totally organic and total bullshit) - it was ripped from the market due to it being a non compliant product in 2003. A lot of hydro manufacturers just use other peoples Agricultural products and then hype them up with masses of jargon and bullshit. You can buy a good wetting agent from an Agricultural store for about $5.00 so why get ripped off with a hyped up $20 product.
http://www.integralhydro.com/plantgrowthregulators.html

Here's the formula for Superbud (I suspect this is the formula anyway) so you be the judge. This guy is writing a book on manufacturing nutrients and additives so I expect it will make very interesting reading to see just what are actually in all these products.

Yeah that recipe looks about right. There are a raft of bud enlargers being sold these days using most of that recipe. Nice link that.

Jonus said:

Yeah that recipe looks about right. There are a raft of bud enlargers being sold these days using most of that recipe. Nice link that.

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I thought so too. Can't wait for his new book so I can stop buying hoaxes and scams.

twisterbilly said:

Good reading. Only Superbud wasn't ripped off (pretty basic stuff anyway and Dutchmaster just used other peoples products, banged them in a bottle and then lied to the consumer telling them that the poison was based around proprietary phospholipid technology and humatic isolates - totally organic and total bullshit) - it was ripped from the market due to it being a non compliant product in 2003. A lot of hydro manufacturers just use other peoples Agricultural products and then hype them up with masses of jargon and bullshit. You can buy a good wetting agent from an Agricultural store for about $5.00 so why get ripped off with a hyped up $20 product.
http://www.integralhydro.com/plantgrowthregulators.html

Here's the formula for Superbud (I suspect this is the formula anyway) so you be the judge. This guy is writing a book on manufacturing nutrients and additives so I expect it will make very interesting reading to see just what are actually in all these products.

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IMO, almost the entire "cannabis specific" food industry is a rip off. I have never used such products, sticking with bonafide products accepted and used only by the nursery and horticulture trade. There is no regulation of content nor claims. I doubt if very few are manufacturers themselves.

I buy the highest quality foods for less than a dollar a pound. IOW, one of these 25 lb. bags divided between every member at RIU, would last a year. If you're not paying literally pennies per week on your feeding schedule, you're a fool.

UB

panhead said:

What has me puzzled is what the other ingerdients are though,if it was just plain looking water....

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Could very well be, with a few salts throw in "to make it work".

...... but the product they call Penetrator has an oily feel to it,it looks like anti freeze & even has a taste somewhat reminiscient of old time anti freeze with a sweet metalic taste to it.

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That is a typical surfactant/activator. I buy non-ionic surfactants for about $13/gallon.

More than likely, it is combination product used by folks like me (farmers) in sprays that provide for a pH buffer (down) in hard water, a penetrator and a spreader-sticker. Glycol based (antifreeze) reason for the oily feel. I use one such brand called Surf-King in 50 gallon sprays, another called "Red River". Save yourself some big bucks and buy a gallon of this stuff. Check it out:
http://www.estesinc.com/specs/surfkingspec.pdf

There is another issue, the amount of the active ingredient, it should be 88% or above. If below, you're further getting it in the hiney ho. I doubt if those cheesey bastards even divulge the content %.

There are literally hundreds of such products available. They are exercising the common practice of taking someone else's product and relabeling it, probably using someone else's bottling facilities too and then breaking it off in your ass regarding the outrageous price.

If it's got the word "dutch" in it, caveat emptor. The Dutch are notorious rip-off artists.

God bless America over and out,
UB

Make your own super dupper wet and sticky penetrated plus turbo shean-----I like to get a cheap bottle of bubble juice in your local toy section. add that to some deionized water and mix with your fav formulas-----I love a mild dose of seaweed and humic------mmmmmm mmmmmmm...

hehehe

If it's got the word "dutch" in it, caveat emptor. The Dutch are notorious rip-off artists.

God bless America over and out,
UB
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i cant really disagree with the ultimate former statement but i found dm reverse sorted my probs out, although i in no way would attempt to explain why and i wont disagree with ub's opinions(not coz i'm a sychophant but the guys explanations/experience speak for themselves) but what i would say is that when it comes to pure sales bullshit the yanks are hard to beat, and ive heard of just as many 'super power' things from the good ole us of a lads. sorry if ive offended any 1 but fuck it........

Shit stinks, eggs don't bounce and you can't buy generals in a general store.

i have found it to work well in several stages of the plant...it basicly did the trick........once i hadnt even treated em at all untill after flowering and the ball sacks were gone in 3 days.........it represses the male aspect ....i think...n that was a reasonable sized grow too....the rest were right by each other side by side and remained female.........so if anything i think it dont allow for the females to b sexed....or pollinated.....it just represses male aspects of it.....and stops any more male parts from growing..or so i think.......after u initially rip em off..(tho like i said 3 days and gone......and i had it side by side with d full females....never changed em to hermie......and full nuts fell of it..as i didnt notice on ..em till the third day......but i didnt have to remove any nuts.....they fell off......on they own and no seeds were had from the plant....none at all ...

to b exact&on point for this experiement it was 18 outdoor plants 4 got ripped b4 any reverse was added because they were either male or hermaphradites .......anyhow..second &a half week of budding we had jus grabbd the reverse to stop a single hermaphridite flowering plant(it was one of many patches so hope u guys understand u can only do so much in a day...lolz.....my other patches required attention so i caught it already flowering).....it took 3 days to work...we sprayed the entire crop..........and as i said 3 days later the seeds all dropped off.....and there were no other seeds at all.....and altho the plants were tightly put together...it still didnt affect the others the bud was fine all seeds and seed pods dropped ...(because it was supposed to b a winter grow....it wasnt sposed to grow so big..but i was showing a mate a track from this patch...i was teachin him a bit...he grows also..but anyhow as i was sayn..i was showing him a few tricks...leaving that as my omega grow....)(when u have multiple grows anyhow the winter plants turned out to b around in between 6 to 7 ft in height because of the method i was using...maybbe ill throw it up somewhere when i have tym)anyhow the females remained female and the others didnt get affected or sexed by the hemie regarding the fact they were in contact &that seriously heightens the chances of hemries and we ended up with a 100% product at th end......no seeds at all....cant argue with that now can i

i am tryn on a new grow.....because one turned hermie(dont u hate that...fuck it....i do....unless i need one..coz the clones have lost potency and i dont got no seeds&when i do u seperate them as norm quarantine em..... ...but that usually isnt a prob i have a wide catalouge of seeds in my library )anyhow like i said one has gone hermie.....ill keep u posted....but hopefully........but i also think its too diluted.....possibly.......but we'll see......