Dave's First LED Grow Using Area 51

PetFlora said:

RO puts the grower in control of what (and how much) to add to the water base. There is so much crap in tap water, as well as the fact that the percentage of Ca + Mg is not dialed in either, and of questionable quality.

I use Hydroponic- Research VEG+BLOOM RO formula, which includes the correct amount of each for mj.

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I know the reasoning behind using RO. If you have decent water from the tap there really isn't a need for using RO. If you use benificials just make sure you let the water sit for a day before adding them because the chlorine will kill them. I use house and garden which also has mag+cal added and I still ran into deficencys from time to time. Seemed to be strain Dependant. When using tap, I never see this, ever. My bottle of calmag has been collecting dust since switching back.


Im just wondering if its really the LEDs that need added cal/mag or if its just unbalenced nutes.

Its really great how far LEDs have come. Nice tight node spacing on the critcals !!
I've never run critical but the LSD you have on backup is a little beast. Crazy trichome production and overall yeild is great. Its also nice that it finishes in about 60 days

dude9000 said:

Its really great how far LEDs have come. Nice tight node spacing on the critcals !!
I've never run critical but the LSD you have on backup is a little beast. Crazy trichome production and overall yeild is great. Its also nice that it finishes in about 60 days

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Hey Dude, Critical Kush is supposed to be about as strong as the LSD, but I only grew it once and am a little disappointed with the potency. But that could have been caused by problems in my last grow. I DEFINITELY have better lights this time. I had been using all fluorescents until now. Stay tuned and I'll let you know how this batch turns out. I really love the tightness of the nodes too. Much tighter than any other strain I've grown. And the leaves are huge. You'll see after this plant grows another week or so. But the first time I grew LSD it turned out awesome. Everyone who tried it said it was some outstanding shit. The high I got from it was so intense and different from what I was used to that it practically made me feel like I was on another planet.

About tap water, I'm pretty sure mine is full of crap that I don't want. You must be one of the lucky ones who has decent water. Come to think of it, mine tastes like shit, so I haven't drank it without filtering it for years. Even my cat refuses to drink it. That's why I use RO water. It's cheap in bulk at Cub Foods.

Regarding the Cal/mag issue, I think I simply didn't add enough base nutes to my water last time. This time I put in about 3/4 of what Advanced Nutrients recommends (which still seems high to me). And I've seen the same leaf damage numerous times before while using fluorescent lights, so I don't think it's an LED issue. (I always mistakenly thought it was from too much nute, so I kept the concentration low. ) Let's see how it goes now...

There's a very sensitive relationship that hangs in the balance. Cal and Mag are the macros of micros.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/505993-interesting-read-cal-mag-check.html

Out of the faucet my water is ~450ppm (.7 CF), I run a DynaGro (supposed to fill all plant needs=one part), and Cal/Mag, and STILL mix RO and Tap. Too much of anything is a bad thing, but in moderation...

Iron, sulphur, zinc, etc... are all micros that are in our tap and are readily available. Now, not all are and you do need to consider some things (nitrates, nitrites....) but diluting to the desired ppm could save you buying a Micro additive, or a deficiency.

My issue was yellowing centers, im doing 5:1 (from 450ppm to 93ppm of "tap") and 2.5ml Cal/Mag in late veg to keep things green. Give em some micros, wabam.

and a little extra buffer.

Edit: Dave, on page 5 the close up of the brown spots in your talk witih chroni, you can see the tips of your margins are yellowing, brother. You might dillute your solution down <500ppm, for now. Ive heard some shit of being up in 1800's by harvest... but never 700 for a lil tyke.

Scotch089 said:

... Iron, sulphur, zinc, etc... are all micros that are in our tap and are readily available. Now, not all are and you do need to consider some things (nitrates, nitrites....) but diluting to the desired ppm could save you buying a Micro additive, or a deficiency...

... Give em some micros, wabam.

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I think that Advanced Nutrients contains the micros in their Sensi-Grow formula. And like I wrote above, my tap water is nasty, so I'm not giving it to my plant, sorry. If you lived in my town, you'd know.

Scotch089 said:

Edit: Dave, on page 5 the close up of the brown spots in your talk witih chroni, you can see the tips of your margins are yellowing, brother. You might dillute your solution down <500ppm, for now. Ive heard some shit of being up in 1800's by harvest... but never 700 for a lil tyke.

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What does the yellowing mean, too much nute? So is it possible that I have too much base nute causing that yellowing, but not enough Cal/Mag which caused the brown spots? That concentration I mixed today seemed awfully high for a small plant. I might be starting to understand what's going on if you're right. Let me know if I'm following you or not. Thanks for your insights, Scotch.

Good Morning Brother Roller.I See You Are In The Process Of Dialing In Your Grow=Reps.The Mag Deficinicey We Are All Experiencing I Belive Is Cause By The Breeders Ramping Up The Mag In Flower Trying To Win Cups With Big Ass Buds.The Reason I Say This Im Noticing In Many Of The Breeders Descriptions It Says To Up The Cal/Mag.Heres The Description Of The Emerald Triange Jack https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/emerald-triangle-seeds-emerald-jack/prod_607.html.

I Also Use R/O Water And When I Plop My Seed Into My WaterFarms I Add 2ml Of Cal/Mag From The Get Go.Then In Week 3 I Up It To 5ml,Week 4 8ml Till The End Of My Veg Time.Then In Week 1 Of Flower I Lower It Back To 5ml Because I Add 1/4 Teaspoon Of Kool Bloom Its High In The Mag Dept.I Do This Because I Belive That Too Much Cal Locks Out The Mag And It The Mag Deficincey Thats Causing Our Problem.

The Dawg said:

Good Morning Brother Roller.I See You Are In The Process Of Dialing In Your Grow=Reps.The Mag Deficinicey We Are All Experiencing I Belive Is Cause By The Breeders Ramping Up The Mag In Flower Trying To Win Cups With Big Ass Buds.The Reason I Say This Im Noticing In Many Of The Breeders Descriptions It Says To Up The Cal/Mag.Heres The Description Of The Emerald Triange Jack https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/emerald-triangle-seeds-emerald-jack/prod_607.html.

I Also Use R/O Water And When I Plop My Seed Into My WaterFarms I Add 2ml Of Cal/Mag From The Get Go.Then In Week 3 I Up It To 5ml,Week 4 8ml Till The End Of My Veg Time.Then In Week 1 Of Flower I Lower It Back To 5ml Because I Add 1/4 Teaspoon Of Kool Bloom Its High In The Mag Dept.I Do This Because I Belive That Too Much Cal Locks Out The Mag And It The Mag Deficincey Thats Causing Our Problem.

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That is GOLDEN advice, Mr Dawg! Your insights are a real eye-opener. I appreciate your sharing your secrets that you learned through trial and error. I hope that I can repay the favor someday.

I changed the nutes last night with about 2/3 of what Advanced Nutrients recommends for its Sensi-Grow formula and adjuncts.
In about 17 liters of water I added:

• 48 ml of Sensi-Grow A & B (each)
• 24 ml of Voodoo Juice root growth promoter
• 24 ml of B-52 vitamin B supplement

The high tds makes me nervous, but so far I'm seeing nothing but much improved growth. This is how much she grew in about a day and a half, most of it since last night:



After a few days I'll probably add a little Cal/Mag based on The Dawg's observations, but so far she's doing ok now. Then starting next water change I'll add a little every time and during flower I'll use it with Kool Bloom the way that Brother Dawg recommends.

Edit: The SGS-160 light panel is now only 20" above the top of the plant, so I'm giving her almost full-strength light.

If you don't see any new yellowing or other distress after a day your usually good. Yellowing tips is usually over feeding. As Scotch said I'd be hesitant on upping your nuts too much this early.. If she's growing fast and green you don't want to over do it!

You really have to keep in mind that people use different meters and some meters use different conversion factors to get ppm.

dude9000 said:

If you don't see any new yellowing or other distress after a day your usually good. Yellowing tips is usually over feeding. As Scotch said I'd be hesitant on upping your nuts too much this early.. If she's growing fast and green you don't want to over do it!

You really have to keep in mind that people use different meters and some meters use different conversion factors to get ppm.

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Don't you hate that?! My Hanna pen can be set to 3 different conversion factors: .50, .666 or one other value. Mine's set to .666 meaning that ppm = .666 micoSiemens. So for example if the EC is 1000 microSiemens, then the tds reads 666 ppm.


Is that the conversion factor you guys use? I wish there were a standard or people just used EC.

I wish I could up my nuts a little... they hang down pretty far at my age. {Ha ha, jk}

Good looking grow!
you are doing exactly what I have planned out. Good to see that it works even if you are a bit of a noob.

Keep the info coming!

Does your feed tube run 24/7 or is it on a timer? I'm thinking of implementing something similar on my next setup.

I noticed that over feeding doesn't always show immediate signs of burn, it can also slow growth without the obvious visual signs of stress. When my girls are dialed in right they usually need 5 gallons of water added each day mid flower and the pH drops in my 2 lady setup. Once I add 5 gallons of h2o, if everything is dialed in properly my pH jumps back to 5.8-6 without having to adjust. If my ppm is too high or not adjusted properly they dont eat nearly as much and still look pretty good. Something is obviously off because they didn't eat!
It's just something to keep in mind and to watch for. Sometimes less is more. Over time you will tune in your system and notice things like this.
She looks great so far!

I forget what setting my meter is on? I've had some bad luck with meters and have gone through many of them. Not so much my ppm but my pH! If your in a hurry and forget to put the cap on its usually ruined and like a dumbass I've done this many times..

BCJohn said:

Good looking grow!
you are doing exactly what I have planned out. Good to see that it works even if you are a bit of a noob.

Keep the info coming!

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Thanks for the compliment... I guess? Go ahead and copy my idea and you'll do just fine, son.

dude9000 said:

Does your feed tube run 24/7 or is it on a timer? I'm thinking of implementing something similar on my next setup.

I noticed that over feeding doesn't always show immediate signs of burn, it can also slow growth without the obvious visual signs of stress. When my girls are dialed in right they usually need 5 gallons of water added each day mid flower and the pH drops in my 2 lady setup. Once I add 5 gallons of h2o, if everything is dialed in properly my pH jumps back to 5.8-6 without having to adjust. If my ppm is too high or not adjusted properly they dont eat nearly as much and still look pretty good. Something is obviously off because they didn't eat!
It's just something to keep in mind and to watch for. Sometimes less is more. Over time you will tune in your system and notice things like this.
She looks great so far!

I forget what setting my meter is on? I've had some bad luck with meters and have gone through many of them. Not so much my ppm but my pH! If your in a hurry and forget to put the cap on its usually ruined and like a dumbass I've done this many times..

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5 gallons is a hell of a lot of water for 2 plants to drink in one day! Impressive! I've noticed the same thing in the past after over feeding other plants, that they stop drinking first. That's when I usually panic and water down my res. For this plant I think that the nute level must be ok right now. Maybe there's something different about Advanced Nutrients products that requires them to be added in amounts that raise the tds way up high -- higher than what you'd normally make it.

In fact, AN's nutrient calculator says that it's supposed to be around 1100 ppm right now:



but it's hard to believe it could be right, based on everything we've learned elsewhere. But now that my plant is growing good, I won't question it too much.

I forgot to mention... I'm running my drip ring for just 5 minutes every 2 hours right now. If the leaves droop, she's got too much water so I reset the timer to feed less often. Other times I feed once every hour.

I also have 2 airstones in the water making bubbles.

daveroller said:

5 gallons is a hell of a lot of water for 2 plants to drink in one day! Impressive! I've noticed the same thing in the past after over feeding other plants, that they stop drinking first. That's when I usually panic and water down my res. For this plant I think that the nute level must be ok right now. Maybe there's something different about Advanced Nutrients products that requires them to be added in amounts that raise the tds way up high -- higher than what you'd normally make it.

In fact, AN's nutrient calculator says that it's supposed to be around 1100 ppm right now:

but it's hard to believe it could be right, based on everything we've learned elsewhere. But now that my plant is growing good, I won't question it too much.

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Say Your Course Young Man.Your Doing Exactly As You Should.Your Ppms Are Not Off The Chart As They Appear To Be And The Reason Is Your Running Your Meter On (TDS)EC X 700.While Most Of Us Are Running The EC X 500 Setting.So My Meter Would Read About 1/2 Of What Yours Does

LMAO No You Dont Gots Ta Mold Lmao.Sorry Brother I Usally See This kind Of Post When,I Mean A Totaly Noobie See's Trichomes For The 1st Time Lmao.

What We Have Hear Is Late Stage Mag Definciney Or Its Nute Burn From The DripRing.It Is Laying On Top Of It.Totaly Normal Brother However You Did Have A Mag Def And You Will See The After Effects In Your Older Affect Leaves.Heres A Pic Of My Late Stage Mag Def.

The Dawg said:

Say Your Course Young Man.Your Doing Exactly As You Should.Your Ppms Are Not Off The Chart As They Appear To Be And The Reason Is Your Running Your Meter On (TDS)EC X 700.While Most Of Us Are Running The EC X 500 Setting.So My Meter Would Read About 1/2 Of What Yours Does

LMAO No You Dont Gots Ta Mold Lmao.Sorry Brother I Usally See This kind Of Post When,I Mean A Totaly Noobie See's Trichomes For The 1st Time Lmao.

What We Have Hear Is Late Stage Mag Definciney Or Its Nute Burn From The DripRing.It Is Laying On Top Of It.Totaly Normal Brother However You Did Have A Mag Def And You Will See The After Effects In Your Older Affect Leaves.Heres A Pic Of My Late Stage Mag Def.

View attachment 2922471

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Those look more like the spots I saw before on my plant. The ones I thought could be mold aren't so clear cut, at least not to my lousy eyes. You're most probably right, brother Dawg, but hey a little neem oil can't hurt. I started adding a little Cal/mag to the res, so hopefully that won't happen again thanks to your advice.

Yes, my pen is set to convert EC to ppm using 700 as the conversion factor. (I previously said 666, which was wrong.) So an EC of 1.42 would read as 1000 ppm for me, but would read as 710 ppm on your pen. That clears up some confusion. I wish there were a standard conversion factor that everyone used. Advanced Nutrients uses 700 like I do.

Lots of new growth overnight again. I'll take some pics later this afternoon...

Big totes=big root zone
Big root zone=Big trees
Big trees = Big yeilds
They drink a lot!
There is no need for a large numbers of plants in a space that can fit just two big ones

Your ppm makes sense now. I figured it was something with your meter settings. I know if I had that high of a ppm on a girl that young she would be toast, literally Burt to a crisp.