Dark Side Of The Moon.....

canndo

Well-Known Member
Ok, starting to understand the process better. So basically it just spreads. :??: Such as any other fungus's. On the temps I just have been trying to keep them warm, but not to warm. And you asked me about " am I going to case my grain IE' WBS" :??: If you dont mind explain your version of casing. I have read on casing, but just didnt fully grasp it the 1st go round. :??: Thanks again bro.
OK, I am going to do this again. I have posted this explaination a number of times but I do realize that it is tough to search this site and the word "case" might not yield reasonable results.

Firstly, you will likely see someone chime in saying "cubensis doesn't need to be cased", or "I never cased them and look how MY grow turned out", or "Roger Rabit says you don't have to case.

You don't have to case, but many mushroom species, and many that are psychoactive DO need to be cased. You don't have to case, but you don't have to shake your jars either.

When the mycelium grows through very nutrient rich material it will "run", or grow very fast, as if it were attempting to take stock of the extent of possible growth. It will attempt to surround that high density material and only after that will it begin to send out more and more hyphae. Watch your corn grow. At first you will see each kernel surrounded by mycelium but after a while you will see the corn actually encased in something akin to cheese, a very dense, thick, pliable rubbery matrix will surround the kernels.

When the mycelium senses that it has come to the outer extents of that rich source of food it triggers a response. You may notice that the mycelium, where before it was always white, may blush blue, it will certainly bruise blue where before it likely would not.

What you are doing with a casing is demonstrating to the mushroom that it has reached the ;extent of its food supply. You are also providing the mushroom with a buffer zone, a way to pick the mushroom without violating the substrate, a reserve of water that can be kept at a constant - no dunking and rolling, a habitat for beneificial microorganisms, a ph sink, and a microenvironment that is conducive to primordia formation - little nooks and cranies so to speak.

The idea is to create a new substrate that has just the barest of nutrients, that is as basic as possible in PH (7.5 or even 8.0). The more basic you can make it and still have your mycelium heallthy the better. The mushroom will produce acids as it consumes it's food and the more acidic the substrate the more it is prone to be contaminated, so the more basic, the longer you have before it does so.

anyway, you create a substrate that will hold water, has a little food in it and is neutral or basic, then you cover your fully colonized substrate with this material and allow the mycelium to grow through it to just below the surface, at that point you initiate fruiting, you drop the temperature if you can, you expose the top to light, you mist - bringing the casing up to maxiumum capacity, and you provide those air exchanges.

you should see primordia only a few days after you have done so.

25 75 coir/vermiculte with a sprinkling of gypsum is mixed. Bring that to field capacity (a handful of it when squeezed tightly will yield a few drops of water). Then put it in a turkey bag and put that in the oven at 170 degrees for several hours. use a thermometer so you know the temperature in the middle. You are pasteruizing the casing.


Let that cool and put it on the top of your growing surface to a depth of an inch or so. Pack it down very lightly, so there is full contact between the casing and your growing substrate.

Then put the jars or whatever in your fruiting chamber and wait.
 

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
Ok, that part is understandable. The part where I am kinda lost on is when the "grain" jars are fully colonized, and ready to fruit, their not like the other cakes with BRF +V. Seems like they(grain jars) would just pour out and the grain go everywhere. :??: After the grain jars are finished, would one take the grain jars and place the grain into a sterile bulk medium, instead of just letting the grain go all over the inside of the fruiting chamber :??: Thats what has me stumped.



OK, I am going to do this again. I have posted this explanation a number of times but I do realize that it is tough to search this site and the word "case" might not yield reasonable results.

Firstly, you will likely see someone chime in saying "cubensis doesn't need to be cased", or "I never cased them and look how MY grow turned out", or "Roger Rabit says you don't have to case.

You don't have to case, but many mushroom species, and many that are psychoactive DO need to be cased. You don't have to case, but you don't have to shake your jars either.

When the mycelium grows through very nutrient rich material it will "run", or grow very fast, as if it were attempting to take stock of the extent of possible growth. It will attempt to surround that high density material and only after that will it begin to send out more and more hyphae. Watch your corn grow. At first you will see each kernel surrounded by mycelium but after a while you will see the corn actually encased in something akin to cheese, a very dense, thick, pliable rubbery matrix will surround the kernels.

When the mycelium senses that it has come to the outer extents of that rich source of food it triggers a response. You may notice that the mycelium, where before it was always white, may blush blue, it will certainly bruise blue where before it likely would not.

What you are doing with a casing is demonstrating to the mushroom that it has reached the ;extent of its food supply. You are also providing the mushroom with a buffer zone, a way to pick the mushroom without violating the substrate, a reserve of water that can be kept at a constant - no dunking and rolling, a habitat for beneificial microorganisms, a ph sink, and a microenvironment that is conducive to primordia formation - little nooks and cranies so to speak.

The idea is to create a new substrate that has just the barest of nutrients, that is as basic as possible in PH (7.5 or even 8.0). The more basic you can make it and still have your mycelium heallthy the better. The mushroom will produce acids as it consumes it's food and the more acidic the substrate the more it is prone to be contaminated, so the more basic, the longer you have before it does so.

anyway, you create a substrate that will hold water, has a little food in it and is neutral or basic, then you cover your fully colonized substrate with this material and allow the mycelium to grow through it to just below the surface, at that point you initiate fruiting, you drop the temperature if you can, you expose the top to light, you mist - bringing the casing up to maxiumum capacity, and you provide those air exchanges.

you should see primordia only a few days after you have done so.

25 75 coir/vermiculte with a sprinkling of gypsum is mixed. Bring that to field capacity (a handful of it when squeezed tightly will yield a few drops of water). Then put it in a turkey bag and put that in the oven at 170 degrees for several hours. use a thermometer so you know the temperature in the middle. You are pasteruizing the casing.


Let that cool and put it on the top of your growing surface to a depth of an inch or so. Pack it down very lightly, so there is full contact between the casing and your growing substrate.

Then put the jars or whatever in your fruiting chamber and wait.
 

technical dan

Active Member
you could spawn to bulk or take the lid off the jar and put your casing layer right onto the colonized grains and fruit out of the jar. Or pour a tray if you want to pour the grains still. What kind of FC do you have/ planning on?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
What Dan says, or you can case with the grain in the jar, or you can wait for the mycelium to "knit" and dump it out, casing the top. In a very short while you will see the grains fully encompassed and then the whole thing solidify into a "cheese".The kernels at that point will not separate even if you want them to.
 

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
you could spawn to bulk or take the lid off the jar and put your casing layer right onto the colonized grains and fruit out of the jar. Or pour a tray if you want to pour the grains still. What kind of FC do you have/ planning on?
OK cool, that's what I was thinking but wasn't to sure. Thanks. Couldn't I just pour the contents of the jar in one of the corners of the fruiting chamber I have instead of having to have two or three chamber :??: And have my other "cakes" with the BRF+V in the middle :??: I mean I will do whatever I need to to get this to work right, however I was just wondering if I could do the latter.. :??:

What Dan says, or you can case with the grain in the jar, or you can wait for the mycelium to "knit" and dump it out, casing the top. In a very short while you will see the grains fully encompassed and then the whole thing solidify into a "cheese".The kernels at that point will not separate even if you want them to.
Ok cool. The Popcorn is looking as if it's already doing this after I shook it... It's kinda looking like hard cheese. lol And stuck together in places... But there's still white in places here & there..
 

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the more I think about it, its sounds as if it would just be easier to "crumble & case". I was reading that you can just crumble the cakes once fully colonized :??: Is this accurate Canado :??:

 

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
sorry I missed your :??: I was/am planning on using a tote box, one inside the other with a humidity (reptile fogger) hooked up, plus an air pump ran for air exchange, and also submersible water heaters to keep the temps a tad higher where its still colder here. Been trying to keep them in the fruiting chamber (dry) and warm while they colonize. Just been turning the light on long enough to see if there's new growth, and or to shake the grain & popcorn jars.
you could spawn to bulk or take the lid off the jar and put your casing layer right onto the colonized grains and fruit out of the jar. Or pour a tray if you want to pour the grains still. What kind of FC do you have/ planning on?
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
im gonna buy the 2 dvd set on how to do it. later this year. first i have to finish my test grow. nice site dank.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the more I think about it, its sounds as if it would just be easier to "crumble & case". I was reading that you can just crumble the cakes once fully colonized :??: Is this accurate Canado :??:


If you wanted to do that you would have been best doing it before the mycelium began to "knit", when each grain is coloinized but not yet tied together, you can still pour it out into a tray and make the top nice and level. That is a key in casing, the more level the top the more likely the mycelium will arrive just below the surface all at one time.
 

technical dan

Active Member
OK cool, that's what I was thinking but wasn't to sure. Thanks. Couldn't I just pour the contents of the jar in one of the corners of the fruiting chamber I have instead of having to have two or three chamber :??: And have my other "cakes" with the BRF+V in the middle :??: I mean I will do whatever I need to to get this to work right, however I was just wondering if I could do the latter.. :??:

Yeah you can do that ya just need a container to pour the grains into and case that and youll have a tray. you dont want the grains just loose in the FC
 

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
If you wanted to do that you would have been best doing it before the mycelium began to "knit", when each grain is coloinized but not yet tied together, you can still pour it out into a tray and make the top nice and level. That is a key in casing, the more level the top the more likely the mycelium will arrive just below the surface all at one time.
Ok cool thanks. Ok. You remember when I had shook the jars that have the WBS & Popcorn :??: Well now it's looking as if the growth has broken up and is in these dime size "balls" :??: Is this normal :??: You'll have to check out the pictures. lol

Yeah you can do that ya just need a container to pour the grains into and case that and youll have a tray. you dont want the grains just loose in the FC
Ok cool thanks.. So basically one needs to collect a ton of those hospital pans and a dome for humidity, or a few totes, or could more then 1 strain go into the same fruiting chamber :??: Also, do I need to keep the cakes, or grain moist :??: and when doing this do I need to pour a layer of the medium into the bottom of each chamber/pan, then my grain or corn, then layer with medium/perlite :??: Sorry about all the questions, just want to make sure I do this correct, considering all the work that is involved... Thanks again..
 

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
Here's a few pictures so you guys can get a better understanding about my questions.. Thanks again.. Fruiting chamber -> PIC_1142.jpg 2nd set of jars inoculated ->PIC_1141.jpg WBS that when I shook growth turned into these dime sized balls --> :??: PIC_1140.jpg trying to keep it moist ->PIC_1143.jpg colonization chamber (going to be fruiting chamber ) ->PIC_1137.jpg popcorn colonizing ->PIC_1138.jpg PIC_1139.jpg
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Looks to me like the popcorn is colonizing well. I'm worried about that cake you are trying to fruit though man. It said on your other thread that your keeping it over 80 in your fruiting chamber, and you need to drop that down to about 72 I think for fruiting. Its been awhile but I believe the drop in temps is part of what triggers them to fruit. I honestly have to say that I don't think that cake was completely colonized. You don't want the actual cake getting wet either, you just want the chamber to have humidity and air flow. I'm a relative mushroom noob though so I'm not trying to give less then accurate info.
 

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the 80 degree's is what I am trying to keep the "colonizing jars" in (that tote). The other "fruiting chamber" It's staying around 75 ish. Trying to keep it a tad lower, plus when the fogger is aimed on the cake it is colder to touch.. And I was misting the mister down towards the bottom of the tote, not actually on the cake itself. Which does kinda look dry to me. The reasoning behind it looking completely colonized is t isn't ;) It's where that cake had slowed down, and i figured if it had that much growth it would go ahead and fruit. lol Just trying to get a fill for it honestly.
Looks to me like the popcorn is colonizing well. I'm worried about that cake you are trying to fruit though man. It said on your other thread that your keeping it over 80 in your fruiting chamber, and you need to drop that down to about 72 I think for fruiting. Its been awhile but I believe the drop in temps is part of what triggers them to fruit. I honestly have to say that I don't think that cake was completely colonized. You don't want the actual cake getting wet either, you just want the chamber to have humidity and air flow. I'm a relative mushroom noob though so I'm not trying to give less then accurate info.
 

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
Thanks DC. ;) I'm trying.. lol Still not understanding all of it,. lol Seems kike if the fruiting chamber has moisture, the cakes would "draw" the moisture up.. But for some reason this cake I went ahead and birthed is looking a tad dry.. It's one of those NON pre sterile jars that came with he kit.. all the others are doing good with NO signs of any contaminates.. :) So far.. lol
looking good and the corn looks great.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Looks to me like the popcorn is colonizing well. I'm worried about that cake you are trying to fruit though man. It said on your other thread that your keeping it over 80 in your fruiting chamber, and you need to drop that down to about 72 I think for fruiting. Its been awhile but I believe the drop in temps is part of what triggers them to fruit. I honestly have to say that I don't think that cake was completely colonized. You don't want the actual cake getting wet either, you just want the chamber to have humidity and air flow. I'm a relative mushroom noob though so I'm not trying to give less then accurate info.

Tcat is right, it is better if you drop your temp, it is not, however, imparative that you do so. The strain you are working with is somewhat tropical, so it will fruit at any temperature short of thermal imparement (high 80's, low 90's). But if you want to control your fruiting, you want to give your substrate a little shock.
 
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