Congresswoman on Palin's "Hit List" shot

Hudsonvalley82 said:

The only 1 I could find is a beautifully constructed guillotine beheading bush outside of a campaign stop for Obama in '08. Needless to say, the president has denounced such behavior on both the campaign trail and while in office.

The tea party have not, it has encouraged it.

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You seem to think the Tea Party is monolithic when it is nothing of the sort. No one person speaks for the Tea Party. It is not a top down organization.

Here's a group of moderates burning Bush in effigy the day after he was re-elected.

Democrats love protests when they are not in power. That is not anti-American. Think otherwise and Hillary Clinton will screech at you.

Once the Democrats are in power, all of a sudden free speech is dangerous, even un-American.



Here's the link to other photos of that rally.

http://zombietime.com/sf_rally_november_3_2004/

So all you Proggies can spare us all the indignation.

Anjinsan said:

Seriously you know who is fucked up? All of you douchebags who want to blame anyone but who actually pulled the fucking trigger.

All of you who blame Palin or whomever...you are just like Al Gore's bitch ass wife Tipper Gore. Music must be censored because it'll
make people worship the devil and cause mass suicides.

You and Tipper Gore...same brain...one of you has a shit load less money.

Fucking pathetic. You get yourselves all whipped up into a fury talking to other douchebags like yourselves on messageboards until
you become exactly what you hate. A radical.

The d00d was 22 years old and waaaaaaaay into conspiracy theories. End of story.

But noooooooo. This HAS to be the fault of a political party...right?

Newsflash...the politicians do not like you...do not know you...but if they did...they probably look down upon you.

You want to rally behind one of them?

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Really though, some of us try to keep it at intelligent discourse, but some people love trolling / being ignorant / whatever (on both sides). People that get mad about it aren't trying to discuss issues, they preach mantras that they've been programmed with.

BTW, your raving about how everyone else besides you is teh suck isn't helping with the whole intelligent discourse thing. Sport.

I am going to give you VERY clear direction here, cuz you seem just to do whatever you want...

I want to see pics from a POLITICAL CAMPAIGN, not some anti-bush rally.

I am not talking about political groups, or organizations, of course they are filled with crazies Both left and right, one for one.
The anomaly i am referring to is a nation level, corporate funded, well broad casted, and widely accepted behavior.
I am talking about a political party as a whole backing such behavior and not talking it down.
Al Gore, Howard Dean, John Kerry, all didn't invite, and support such behavior as part of their campaign spectacle as the tea party did, and displayed well of over and over and over and over.

So please, try again, and try to keep it inside the lines

Johnnyorganic said:

You seem to think the Tea Party is monolithic when it is nothing of the sort. No one person speaks for the Tea Party. It is not a top down organization.

Here's a group of moderates burning Bush in effigy the day after he was re-elected.

Democrats love protests when they are not in power. That is not anti-American. Think otherwise and Hillary Clinton will screech at you.

Once the Democrats are in power, all of a sudden free speech is dangerous, even un-American.

Here's the link to other photos of that rally.

http://zombietime.com/sf_rally_november_3_2004/

So all you Proggies can spare us all the indignation.

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whatever.

you clearly want to assign blame to someone or some group other than Jared Loughner.

that is pathetic.

there are plenty of other pathetic individuals who agree with you...whip yourselves into a frenzy all you want.

the worse this country gets...the more often shit like this will happen.

the unemployment rate for 20 somethings is OUTRAGEOUS. This crackpot figured he had nothing to lose in trading his life
for his perceived enemies' life. THAT is the issue.

Hope. He had none.

Hudsonvalley82 said:

I am going to give you VERY clear direction here, cuz you seem just to do whatever you want...

I want to see pics from a POLITICAL CAMPAIGN, not some anti-bush rally.

I am not talking about political groups, or organizations, of course they are filled with crazies Both left and right, one for one.
The anomaly i am referring to is a nation level, corporate funded, well broad casted, and widely accepted behavior.
I am talking about a political party as a whole backing such behavior and not talking it down.
Al Gore, Howard Dean, John Kerry, all didn't invite, and support such behavior as part of their campaign spectacle as the tea party did, and displayed well of over and over and over and over.

So please, try again, and try to keep it inside the lines

Click to expand...

So you asked for something from a rally and I gave it to you.

You keep insisting the Tea Party encouraged this. This is simply not true.

There is no one group that represents the Tea Party. Got it? It consists of thousands of smaller groups scattered across the country. The goal is lower taxes and smaller government.

The guy is a nut. That's all we really need to know.

But if the government tries to use this tragedy as an excuse to restrict free speech or restrict gun ownership, then you will see some genuine Teabagger fury.

Listen to this all or just start @ 6:00..Now ask yourself why do you think some of these nuts are doing what they do...Words are very powerful..Choose them wisely...When you choose the bullet over the ballot you may have a dead 9 year old innocent baby...[youtube]VB7g3y597fs&NR[/youtube]

Wow, so its all him huh?

This whole machismo political climate, that yields no fruit other than discontent is no setting for the event of such a man?
He is to blame, he is the nut job. Yes, very good, we can all agree on that.

What the contention is focusing on is the effect, if any, that such a political environment may have played leading up to this.
My stance in that yes, Jared was a time bomb in many respects, but his anger and discontent were coupled with a greater purpose right or wrong (just look at suicide attackers in the middle east). My supposition is that without such rhetoric and campaigning, it may very well be these people may be alive or uninjured right now. Jared, may very well have done something else horrible instead, or he might have gone to a counselor where he would learn how to vent properly. But he didn't. He shot a politician, and a crowd of people instead.

He did, not the tea party.
BUT...afterwards a hole slew of politicians rush to the cameras, dems: we must repudiate actions in our past (liberal extremism) and present (jared). reps: there is no place for violence in american democracy and we must repudiate such actions of violence. Tea Party: This is a tragedy, and goes on to talk about the problems in the country that led up to this.

Everyone knows and saw the 2010 elections. Be it irony or what have you that this occurred, now IS the time to look at such actions and call for tolerance and brotherhood among disagreement, instead more fiery anger-mongering, as all the 2 larger parties did.

Anjinsan said:

whatever.

you clearly want to assign blame to someone or some group other than Jared Loughner.

that is pathetic.

there are plenty of other pathetic individuals who agree with you...whip yourselves into a frenzy all you want.

the worse this country gets...the more often shit like this will happen.

the unemployment rate for 20 somethings is OUTRAGEOUS. This crackpot figured he had nothing to lose in trading his life
for his perceived enemies' life. THAT is the issue.

Hope. He had none.

Click to expand...

Anjinsan said:

you clearly want to assign blame to someone or some group other than Jared Loughner.

that is pathetic.

Click to expand...

you may be mad as a hatter and derided by every partisan hack on the board, but you at least understand the difference between the reality of the situation and what some people want this whole thing to mean. of course it will make no difference to the loons here that inflammatory rhetoric is and always has been a mainstay of political gamesmanship. of course those same loons will claim that their side would never stoop so low and demand exacting proof of such accusations, along with a confession signed by the president and every past head of the democratic party. they have already implied several times that this is just what tea party activists expected to happen and their conspiracy addled minds will only continue along that same vein. i imagine this is the same sort of logic that would lead one to blame jodie foster for the attempted assassination of reagan.

I hadn't expected this thread to turn into such a discussion, but in hindsight I should have expected it. As these type of threads go though, i think this one has been very civil for the most part. Way to go!

I have to apologize that I changed rally to campaign as I thought that rally would bring up small organizations and not a political party.

Hudsonvalley82 said:

Show me pictures of them in a democratically funded campaign

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Johnnyorganic said:

So you asked for something from a rally and I gave it to you.

You keep insisting the Tea Party encouraged this. This is simply not true.

There is no one group that represents the Tea Party. Got it? It consists of thousands of smaller groups scattered across the country. The goal is lower taxes and smaller government.

The guy is a nut. That's all we really need to know.

But if the government tries to use this tragedy as an excuse to restrict free speech or restrict gun ownership, then you will see some genuine Teabagger fury.

Click to expand...

people still saying that others words had nothing to do with this...WTF
..again look at it all or just start at 6:00
comments welcomed

[youtube]VB7g3y597fs&NR[/youtube]

Gorgeous example...All I am saying is that you have to own your words, even when shit happens that you never would have dreamed, that doesn't take away from the fact that you have a loud speak, condoning that very activity to a group of very suggestive individuals...The reason everyone in politics watches what they say goes beyond just being wrong or misinformed. It is because people look to politicians and voices within politics for validation and guidance, especially when you aren't well put together. This is 1 example of a rally to help Allen West (whom she served on the staff of until it got out) get elected.

What happened shortly after that speech?
Oh a local school and police station were put on lock down due to shooting threats called in.

londonfog said:

Listen to this all or just start @ 6:00..Now ask yourself why do you think some of these nuts are doing what they do...Words are very powerful..Choose them wisely...When you choose the bullet over the ballot you may have a dead 9 year old innocent baby...[youtube]VB7g3y597fs&NR[/youtube]

Click to expand...

undertheice said:

you may be mad as a hatter and derided by every partisan hack on the board, but you at least understand the difference between the reality of the situation and what some people want this whole thing to mean. of course it will make no difference to the loons here that inflammatory rhetoric is and always has been a mainstay of political gamesmanship. of course those same loons will claim that their side would never stoop so low and demand exacting proof of such accusations, along with a confession signed by the president and every past head of the democratic party. they have already implied several times that this is just what tea party activists expected to happen and their conspiracy addled minds will only continue along that same vein. i imagine this is the same sort of logic that would lead one to blame jodie foster for the attempted assassination of reagan.

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no it hasn't. believe it or not there was a time in our history when we acted like gentlemen. the thing is that we get so obsessed with the the fact we can say something, we don't take the time to think if we should.

and i personally believe this is some sort of attempt to censore alarmists in the media. i don't think they should be censored, but like stewart said, take it down a notch......

Your right LondonFog, Words can kill and do,,,All ya gotta say is "GOD BLESS AMERICA",,,and you will be doing the work of a Higher power,,,you will be saved. People bitching about free speech huh,,,where were they when they booted Howard Stern? Now the only damn thing you hear on the Radio is this "Massive" opperessive hatred against the Left,,,guess you can do that when the owner's are one sided. It's called "Propaganda",,,and it control's feeble mind's.
Undocumented illegal democrat's "Priceless",,,She clearly incited using bullet's,,,Sick bitch.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/foxs-geraldo-on-arizona-shooting-this-event-effects-sarah-palins-political-future/

Go to that link, and as much as I hate Geraldo, his point is mine.
The link is unfair, however it is there, and the tea party has to do some serious publicity to counter act this connection.
I mean shit, look at Palins picture again, look at the video provided...Is it more insane to say "this is all irony that this event happened in this state, in this district, at this time, in this point in our nation" or do rational people have some vestment in exploring the fact that comments and publications, like the ones we have seen, do have a consequence, and although they don't actually condone violence on anyone (anymore), they sure look like they did when those things happened. They sure talked like they did, they sure put out SarahPAC documents like they did. They sure set up well funded and publicized campaign rallies in which they called for arms (on more than 1 occasion). So this has to be explored.

If this were a liberal agenda of promoting violence, then we would be exploring that, it makes not difference.
The difference here is everyone defending and denying that the actions of those tea party "patriot" candidates and members are benign. Words aren't benign.

Put yourself in the situation for a second.

Your a Tea Party candidate, your whole platform is anti-government. Your only way to get elected this year is to get as many people in your hardcore base as angry as possible. You advocate using guns to your constituents should the election fall to one of your political rivals. You are part of a nation wide campaign in the same situation, saying varying degrees of the same message. The leader of your movement to one extent or another, advocates "regroup and reload" (or something) as the big slogan. You hold town halls in which you get yor electorate screaming, red in the face mad.

You get elected.

Now, someone gets shot. None the less it is a politician of the opposing party and a group of people. Exactly as you were talking about during your campaign.
You never meant for that to happen, you have no connection to the killer at all.
What should you do??

yup would have to agree Hudson that "don't retreat reload" is about to bit her azz. Don't get me wrong...I myself I'm a gun(s) owner and truly believe that a we have rights to own a gun..but hate talk and gunplay don't mix. Bad things go on when they do.

Hudsonvalley82 said:

As a result of the investigation into a threat that lead to the lockdown of all schools in Broward County, Wednesday, Joyce Kaufman announced on her WFTL radio show, the following day, that she will step down as Chief of Staff to Republican U.S. Rep.-elect Allen West. “Last night, I called congressman-elect Allen West, and I told him I would not be able to accept the position of chief of staff for Congressional District 22,” she said.

According to sources, something Kaufman had said at a tea party rally, set someone off to write a threatening email to that station, early Wednesday morning. During that rally Kaufman said, “If ballots don’t work, bullets will.” MSNBC aired the clip on Rachel Maddow’s TV show, where Maddow offered to introduce viewers to the new crop of conservatives entering office as a result of the Nov. 2 elections….

Police said that soon after MSNBC aired the clip featuring Kaufman, WFTL received an email that stated, in part: “I’m planning something big around the government building here in Broward County, maybe a post office, maybe even a school.”

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Wow... hadn't even heard that.

So, for those of you keeping track... this woman Kaufman, a right-wing radio personality in Florida, said "If ballots don't work, bullets will," in the leadup to the 2010 elections. After the elections were decisively won by the Republicans she accepted a job as CHIEF OF STAFF to a new Congressman. Once news of this hit, she was skewered in the media for her radical statements in the past, including the one calling for violence in the event that Republicans lost an election. That wasn't really much of an issue UNTIL someone threatened a McVeigh-style attack and sent word of it in to HER RADIO STATION. Why? Maybe because they expected her to by sympathetic given her past extremist statements?

We're talking about someone who was going to be CHIEF OF STAFF to a Republican (who else?) Congressman.

If you think that that sort of extremism is superfluous throughout the Democratic Party, then, frankly, you're just as fucking crazy as Joyce Kaufman. Which is REALLY fucking crazy.

Londonfog has it right as rain

Paul Krugman:
"You know that Republicans will yell about the evils of partisanship whenever anyone tries to make a connection between the rhetoric of Beck, Limbaugh, etc. and the violence I fear we’re going to see in the months and years ahead. But violent acts are what happen when you create a climate of hate. And it’s long past time for the GOP’s leaders to take a stand against the hate-mongers."

I'm a gun owner too, I do understand that it is an instrument of death. Much more deadly in certain hands. I would NEVER mention taking arms to anyone. I certainty would never use gun violence advocacy as a campaign tool. Firearms deserve respect, and are not toys, should you be reckless with your respect to it, you are directly responsible for its actions, even in the hands of another. It is still your gun.

Just the same that speech about using firearms necessitates the same respect as the firearm itself. Speaking of your right to own a gun is simple and safe discourse. Speaking of using your gun on another human is a threat. Joking about putting gun sights ons congressional districts is irresponsible and shameful. Both of which are protected rights, (owning and speaking of) but just the same, your therefore own the follow through of its consequences.

That fact that this happened draws anyone speaking of such malice into the conversation and brings the eye of scrutiny from the whole nation upon them to explain what they were thinking when they said such things and condoned (directly) these behaviors.

It takes no blame off of Jared, but in my eyes, as well as many other of your "fellow" Americans, there is a more divisive back story to this horrific situation. A story whose lesson has the ability to stop hate-speak for decades to come.

If anyone sees this as trying to blame the tea-party then fine. You are just part of the static. What is actually being done here is a widespread addressing of hate speak, and why it is a bad thing (other than being politically useless). If you want hate speak to disappear, now is the time to push your ideals.

Both sides engage in heinous hate speak, one side has made a profession of it, perfected it and made it sound to convincing and palatable that they campaign upon it. That is a problem that needs to be addressed. This is the event that will spark its addressing.

One side has a habitual behavior of relying on hate speak every two years or so. The other has a habitual behavior of validating the hate speak by rebuking it. Real topics never get discussed, real problems never get solved. High school. Over and over and over.

Along comes a new movement, that tries to solve this vicious cycle with even more hate-speak. A much louder, angrier, once taboo hate speak that can only exist because the general public is so responsive to emotion instead of reason.

All of the above situation hinders on hate speak, please address it now, so this won't happen again.

londonfog said:

yup would have to agree Hudson that "don't retreat reload" is about to bit her azz. Don't get me wrong...I myself I'm a gun(s) owner and truly believe that a we have rights to own a gun..but hate talk and gunplay don't mix. Bad things go on when they do.

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Hudson that was very well put+rep