Congresswoman on Palin's "Hit List" shot

Johnnyorganic said:

It's not ALWAYS the radical Right. Unless you number Weather Underground as Right Wing.

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Oh, please. The Weather Underground has been inactive for 40 years. The Earth Liberation Front, which you mentioned as some sort of equivalent to all of the right-wing militias which now exist in the U.S. has set a few fires, which potentially could have killed someone, but they haven't gone out and MURDERED people and, to date, NOBODY has died due to their actions. In fact, even with the Weather Underground, the only person who died was A WEATHER UNDERGROUND MEMBER.

There hasn't been radical left wing terrorism in this country since the Vietnam War. To state otherwise is to expose your own shocking ignorance on the subject of domestic terrorism.

To ignore that domestic terrorism is a Right-wing phenomenon is not only counter-factual and ignorant, it's downright dangerous. Name ONE person who has been killed in the past 20 years in this country as a result of "left-wing terrorism." 168 were killed by anti-government, right-wing crazy Timothy McVeigh in the Oklahoma City Bombings ALONE. 19 of which were children under the age of 6. This guy who shot the Congresswoman also killed a baby under the age of 1.

While I agree that this person was probably just crazy, and it's far too early to read into any political motivations, it is abundantly clear to ANYONE paying attention that the right-wing media is stoking violent, anti-government, anti-immigrant sentiments amongst their base for their own political purposes and doesn't really give a damn what the end result is.

As I've already said, it's too early to tell what this specific individual's motivations are, but eventually someone out there is going to take Sarah Palin saying, "Don't retreat- reload," seriously. Someone MIGHT take a LITERAL target on elected officials seriously (in fact, someone may have already done so... it's too early to tell). There are more than 300 million people in this country, many of them are unhinged. When right-wing politicians are using this language, they need to be very cognizant of how their speeches may be interpreted by psychologically unstable people.

And Palin isn't an isolated incident. I'm from Nevada. Here's what the woman, Sharron Angle, who ran against Harry Reid, the United States Senate Majority Leader from our state, said:

You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said it's good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years.

I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.

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Isolated incident?

Well, here's another prominent conservative, this one a radio host in Florida, talking about the same crap during a rally from the 2010 elections.

She says, in the event her party loses the election:

"I'm going to go up into the hills of Kentucky, I'm going to go out to the Midwest, I'm going to go up into the Vermont and New Hampshire outreaches and I'm going to gather men and women who understand that some things are worth fightiing for and some things are worth dying for."

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After she says (about 6 minutes in),

"If ballots don't work, bullets will!"

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB7g3y597fs

Isolated crazy? Well... she's got a radio show, where she presumably feeds this shit to her conservative listeners. And after the election she was offered a job as the CHIEF OF STAFF (as in... the highest-ranking staffer) of Congressman-elect Allen West, who was swept in on the 2010 Republican Wave. So, clearly not only are Republicans NOT telling their frothing-at-the-mouth crackpots to tone it down a bit, they are ACTIVELY REWARDING their insanity. Show me ONE prominent left-winger who has stated that their supporters should go on killing sprees if they LOST A FUCKING ELECTION.

There was a federal judge killed in the shooting, as well, and in fact, he may have been the target.

What did he do? He allowed a 30+ million dollar lawsuit to go forth filed by immigrants against an Arizona rancher, causing an outrage amongst local right-wing radio personalities in the area.

He had death threats and even needed a security detail for a month (or... I guess he needed it permanently and only got it for a month), as had this congresswoman. (who had also had her office vandalized after she had voted for health care reform)

The sad truth is that the radical right has been, for years, actively subverting the United States Government and Constitution. For you to gloss over these treasonous and PURPOSEFUL actions is not only factually incorrect, it's disgusting and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

As I'll state for the THIRD time... we don't know what sent this guy over the edge, but to ignore that there has been a purposeful and concerted effort by the American Right, and SOLELY by the American Right to undermine the legitimacy of our President and our nation, is not only false, it's dangerous. Even if this event wasn't the result of those activities, eventually someone on the right IS going to take this shit seriously and try their, "Second amendment remedies." And then you folks won't be able to hide from your own hideousness anymore. And you sure won't be able to hide from the fact that it was your faults for not keeping your crazies in check.

We'll see you right wing TeaTards in 2012. Ballots WILL work then.

That's what I wanted to say

Krang said:

Oh, please. The Weather Underground has been inactive for 40 years. The Earth Liberation Front, which you mentioned as some sort of equivalent to all of the right-wing militias which now exist in the U.S. has set a few fires, which potentially could have killed someone, but they haven't gone out and MURDERED people and, to date, NOBODY has died due to their actions. In fact, even with the Weather Underground, the only person who died was A WEATHER UNDERGROUND MEMBER.

There hasn't been radical left wing terrorism in this country since the Vietnam War. To state otherwise is to expose your own shocking ignorance on the subject of domestic terrorism.

To ignore that domestic terrorism is a Right-wing phenomenon is not only counter-factual and ignorant, it's downright dangerous. Name ONE person who has been killed in the past 20 years in this country as a result of "left-wing terrorism." 168 were killed by anti-government, right-wing crazy Timothy McVeigh in the Oklahoma City Bombings ALONE. 19 of which were children under the age of 6. This guy who shot the Congresswoman also killed a baby under the age of 1.

While I agree that this person was probably just crazy, and it's far too early to read into any political motivations, it is abundantly clear to ANYONE paying attention that the right-wing media is stoking violent, anti-government, anti-immigrant sentiments amongst their base for their own political purposes and doesn't really give a damn what the end result is.

As I've already said, it's too early to tell what this specific individual's motivations are, but eventually someone out there is going to take Sarah Palin saying, "Don't retreat- reload," seriously. Someone MIGHT take a LITERAL target on elected officials seriously (in fact, someone may have already done so... it's too early to tell). There are more than 300 million people in this country, many of them are unhinged. When right-wing politicians are using this language, they need to be very cognizant of how their speeches may be interpreted by psychologically unstable people.

And Palin isn't an isolated incident. I'm from Nevada. Here's what the woman, Sharron Angle, who ran against Harry Reid, the United States Senate Majority Leader from our state, said:

Isolated incident?

Well, here's another prominent conservative, this one a radio host in Florida, talking about the same crap during a rally from the 2010 elections.

She says, in the event her party loses the election:

After she says (about 6 minutes in),

Isolated crazy? Well... she's got a radio show, where she presumably feeds this shit to her conservative listeners. And after the election she was offered a job as the CHIEF OF STAFF (as in... the highest-ranking staffer) of Congressman-elect Allen West, who was swept in on the 2010 Republican Wave. So, clearly not only are Republicans NOT telling their frothing-at-the-mouth crackpots to tone it down a bit, they are ACTIVELY REWARDING their insanity. Show me ONE prominent left-winger who has stated that their supporters should go on killing sprees if they LOST A FUCKING ELECTION.

There was a federal judge killed in the shooting, as well, and in fact, he may have been the target.

What did he do? He allowed a 30+ million dollar lawsuit to go forth filed by immigrants against an Arizona rancher, causing an outrage amongst local right-wing radio personalities in the area.

He had death threats and even needed a security detail for a month (or... I guess he needed it permanently and only got it for a month), as had this congresswoman. (who had also had her office vandalized after she had voted for health care reform)

The sad truth is that the radical right has been, for years, actively subverting the United States Government and Constitution. For you to gloss over these treasonous and PURPOSEFUL actions is not only factually incorrect, it's disgusting and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

As I'll state for the THIRD time... we don't know what sent this guy over the edge, but to ignore that there has been a purposeful and concerted effort by the American Right, and SOLELY by the American Right to undermine the legitimacy of our President and our nation, is not only false, it's dangerous. Even if this event wasn't the result of those activities, eventually someone on the right IS going to take this shit seriously and try their, "Second amendment remedies." And then you folks won't be able to hide from your own hideousness anymore. And you sure won't be able to hide from the fact that it was your faults for not keeping your crazies in check.

We'll see you right wing TeaTards in 2012. Ballots WILL work then.

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TeaTARDS? Nice. Not very P.C., but nice!

The sentence you excerpted was refuting the mistaken notion that ALL domestic terrorism is associated with the Right Wing. Timing is irrelevant.

Are you saying there are no Left wing terrorist organizations?

Are you further saying that there are no headcases on the Left who make threats?

Even on this site there is an active thread calling for the public lynching of both Bush the Elder and Bush the Younger.

I suppose to you, those actually ARE isolated incidents. Progressive are all about peace, love, and dope. Unicorn farts and rainbows.

La Raza is a warm and fuzzy Leftist Organization.

Armed New Black Panthers intimidate voters at the polls on election day. No problemo.

So step down off your high horse, Mister.

The ballot box worked just fine in 2010. And I am confident it will work again in 2012.

Johnnyorganic said:

Armed New Black Panthers intimidate voters at the polls on election day. No problemo.

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if only we had one actual substantiation of this in the form of a voter who actually claims they were intimidated, it might lend some credence to the millions of times this claim has been made.

too bad neither the bush nor obama doj could find ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of intimidation.

you know what's funny, johnny? you don't own a tv so i can't accuse you of cuddling up with a bowl of popcorn and apple pie to watch hannity every day but you somehow manage to hit most of their talking points nonetheless.

I am sickened that our country has become so polarized as to having cross hair ads, violence and threats, and now, mass murder, for political causes.

Our worst enemy is within.....

We must all learn to chose our words carefully..We might disagree in what we believe in, but to take innocent life is sad..Somebody hit the pause button.

UncleBuck said:

if only we had one actual substantiation of this in the form of a voter who actually claims they were intimidated, it might lend some credence to the millions of times this claim has been made.

too bad neither the bush nor obama doj could find ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of intimidation.

you know what's funny, johnny? you don't own a tv so i can't accuse you of cuddling up with a bowl of popcorn and apple pie to watch hannity every day but you somehow manage to hit most of their talking points nonetheless.

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So you are saying a victim needs to come forward in order for a crime to be committed?

I'll remember that the next time I get a traffic ticket. <Knock on wood>

Not a big Hannity fan. He has a radio show, but I don't listen.

Neal Boortz calls him the Baby Jesus.

I do listen to Boortz. Herman Cain is good, too.

[youtube]wTeOBBxmkvg[/youtube]
What happened to this guy? seems pretty weird.

Johnnyorganic said:

So you are saying a victim needs to come forward in order for a crime to be committed?

I'll remember that the next time I get a traffic ticket. <Knock on wood>

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i would say that to prove voter intimidation, you have to find at least one voter that was intimidated. that is just me though.

TeaTARDS? Nice. Not very P.C., but nice!

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Thanks, I was rather proud of that one. I actually thought I came up with it myself (and may have, independently) but a search of the term on google finds that it has already been entered into the Urban dictionary. DAMN! Anyway, right-wingers aren't the only ones who can hurl childish insults. I'm immature enough to duke it out with the best RepubliCONS.

La Raza and the New Black Panther Party? Well, the New Black Panther Party is basically the black KKK. What's their membership like, though? Is it in the millions like the Tea Party? I'll concede that the New Black Panther Party is some huge problem, however, when you show me a video of Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson actively supporting those loons. It is NOT a top-down political movement like those Tea Party nutjobs. And, as someone has stated, has anybody come forth and said that they were prevented from voting or almost prevented from voting due to the actions of the New Black Panther Party? No. NOT ONE. That said, whoever was sitting in front of that polling place with a weapon ought to have been arrested, OBVIOUSLY. It's also probably the ONLY case of black-on-white case of voter intimidation or attempted voter intimidation that your or anyone else can name. Whereas blacks have been kept away from the polls by force and often MURDER since Reconstruction to present. A period of almost 150 years. Obviously, it isn't right when anyone does it, but to pretend like white voter intimidation is some HUGE national problem either now, or historically speaking is, again, entirely ignorant. If anything, it's an entirely isolated incident, unlike the... ya know... century and a half of repression blacks have had to endure. But please, continue to tell us how hard it is to be white in America-- as a fellow white American man, I'll listen, I swear.

As for La Raza-- that's actually a legitimate Hispanic Civil Rights organization in the vain of the NAACP... though I'm guessing you probably have a problem with them too, right? DAMN BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION! DAMN THURGOOD MARSHALL! Resegregate the schools!

I also find it convenient that your two left-wing boogiemen consist of two minority organizations. That's the great thing about the Tea Party... they can't just come out and SAY that they don't like non-whites, they have to beat around the bush and speak in not-so-subtle code. Not that I'm calling YOU a racist, just the guy who wrote your predictable talking points. (which, having a conservative family, I've heard ad naseum)

Anyway, sorry if I contributed to the deterioration of dialogue. I actually woke up late today to this awful story. Then I come here and see someone trying to draw equivalencies between some 40-year-old long-gone left wing "terrorist organization" that never actually killed an innocent bystander and this guy, who murdered 6 people and injured a dozen others, and... well... it pissed me off in a pretty visceral way.

The NBPP and La Raza jabs didn't help, either. Anti-immigrant, anti-minority sentiment very well may have had something to do with these murders.

But, anyway, congratulations... your base is now OFFICIALLY so debased and so brainwashed that they'll murder innocent people for political motives. What's your guys' next brilliant trick? Who else will Queen Sarah, the Alaskan sensation target? And can't we just elect her President NOW and give her the nuclear codes?

I always thought it would be cool to see Armageddon...

Meanwhile, this picture best summarizes the entire Tea Party movement:

UncleBuck said:

"We need to realize that the rhetoric, and the firing people up and ... for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, the way she has it depicted, we're in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize that there are consequences to that action..." - Gabrielle Giffords, Spring 2010

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Yeah... I shuddered when I saw that interview on TV after the shooting. It was filmed shortly after her office got vandalized.

Then to see that goober Chuck Todd try and argue and say (paraphrasing), "Well... war and campaign terminologies have intermingled for a long time."

Which is true. But we haven't dealt with a situation wherein Congresspeople got death threats for casting votes for a long time. We haven't had to deal with nutty Sarah Palin and Sharron Angle and "Second Amendment remedies," being openly suggested by our political figures for a long time.

Krang said:

Thanks, I was rather proud of that one. I actually thought I came up with it myself (and may have, independently) but a search of the term on google finds that it has already been entered into the Urban dictionary. DAMN! Anyway, right-wingers aren't the only ones who can hurl childish insults. I'm immature enough to duke it out with the best RepubliCONS.

La Raza and the New Black Panther Party? Well, the New Black Panther Party is basically the black KKK. What's their membership like, though? Is it in the millions like the Tea Party? I'll concede that the New Black Panther Party is some huge problem, however, when you show me a video of Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson actively supporting those loons. It is NOT a top-down political movement like those Tea Party nutjobs. And, as someone has stated, has anybody come forth and said that they were prevented from voting or almost prevented from voting due to the actions of the New Black Panther Party? No. NOT ONE. That said, whoever was sitting in front of that polling place with a weapon ought to have been arrested, OBVIOUSLY. It's also probably the ONLY case of black-on-white case of voter intimidation or attempted voter intimidation that your or anyone else can name. Whereas blacks have been kept away from the polls by force and often MURDER since Reconstruction to present. A period of almost 150 years. Obviously, it isn't right when anyone does it, but to pretend like white voter intimidation is some HUGE national problem either now, or historically speaking is, again, entirely ignorant. If anything, it's an entirely isolated incident, unlike the... ya know... century and a half of repression blacks have had to endure. But please, continue to tell us how hard it is to be white in America-- as a fellow white American man, I'll listen, I swear.

As for La Raza-- that's actually a legitimate Hispanic Civil Rights organization in the vain of the NAACP... though I'm guessing you probably have a problem with them too, right? DAMN BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION! DAMN THURGOOD MARSHALL! Resegregate the schools!

I also find it convenient that your two left-wing boogiemen consist of two minority organizations. That's the great thing about the Tea Party... they can't just come out and SAY that they don't like non-whites, they have to beat around the bush and speak in not-so-subtle code. Not that I'm calling YOU a racist, just the guy who wrote your predictable talking points. (which, having a conservative family, I've heard ad naseum)

Anyway, sorry if I contributed to the deterioration of dialogue. I actually woke up late today to this awful story. Then I come here and see someone trying to draw equivalencies between some 40-year-old long-gone left wing "terrorist organization" that never actually killed an innocent bystander and this guy, who murdered 6 people and injured a dozen others, and... well... it pissed me off in a pretty visceral way.

The NBPP and La Raza jabs didn't help, either. Anti-immigrant, anti-minority sentiment very well may have had something to do with these murders.

But, anyway, congratulations... your base is now OFFICIALLY so debased and so brainwashed that they'll murder innocent people for political motives. What's your guys' next brilliant trick? Who else will Queen Sarah, the Alaskan sensation target? And can't we just elect her President NOW and give her the nuclear codes?

I always thought it would be cool to see Armageddon...

Meanwhile, this picture best summarizes the entire Tea Party movement:

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Whatever, Dude.

The Tea Party is not top-down. Quite the opposite. Anybody who has examined it beyond what The Huffington Post, the Daily Kos, or MSNBC has to say about it would know that.

So you're implying I'm racist for calling out two RACIST Left-wing organizations. Or are you?

I call a spade a spade and suddenly I'm a racist. Wait, is SPADE racist, too?

Jesse Jackson? LOL! One word: Irrelevant.

Al Sharpton? Oh my head. Two words: Tawana Brawley.

La Raza believes the Southwest was stolen and they want it back, through violence if necessary. They call illegal aliens RECONQUISTADORES. WOW! What kind of CIVIL RIGHTS organization advocates that?

You're new here so I'll tell you now I don't think much of Sarah Palin in the first place.

And I'm not a Republican.

It is a sad day...

Violence never solved anything.

A 60 year old judge died because he wanted to support a friend and political candidate.

A state representative died.

I heard a 9 year old girl died.

It is simply pointless violence.

Someone got shot. Leave the politics out of it and hope for a good outcome you inhuman fucks! It's a human life for fuck sakes and I never even heard of her until this. What, how, and why doesn't mean shit right now for her and her family.
If this is what humanity has become, I hope this fucking rock explodes in 2012 because humanity is lost.
I expected better from the enlightened pot smokers.

Johnnyorganic said:

Whatever, Dude.

The Tea Party is not top-down. Quite the opposite. Anybody who has examined it beyond what The Huffington Post, the Daily Kos, or MSNBC has to say about it would know that.

So you're implying I'm racist for calling out two RACIST Left-wing organizations. Or are you?

I call a spade a spade and suddenly I'm a racist. Wait, is SPADE racist, too?

Jesse Jackson? LOL! One word: Irrelevant.

Al Sharpton? Oh my head. Two words: Tawana Brawley.

La Raza believes the Southwest was stolen and they want it back, through violence if necessary. They call illegal aliens RECONQUISTADORES. WOW! What kind of CIVIL RIGHTS organization advocates that?

You're new here so I'll tell you now I don't think much of Sarah Palin in the first place.

And I'm not a Republican.

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The Tea Party is so a top-down political organization, although they may not be called that on FoxNews. They have their own idiot base of politicians who support and contribute to the various tea party organizations. Idiots like Sarah Palin. Who else do you think funds these organizations, like the Tea Party Express which sent a bus around the country to campaign?

Look up FreedomWorks, Tea Party Patriots, Dick Armey and the tea party on Google. Armey was the second-highest ranking congressman on Capitol hill for about 8 years. He was the Republican Majority leader. That's pretty top-down and his involvement with the movement is well-known. Hell, he wrote a fucking manifesto for them.

Can you say Astroturf? Looks like grass from afar, but sure it ain't organic.

Meanwhile you didn't call out TWO racist left-wing organizations. You called out ONE racist organization, that, to my knowledge, doesn't even have a left wing platform, (although they might) and a civil rights organization which isn't racist at all. A simple look at their wikipedia page will show that the whole "reconquistador" point is patently FALSE and used by people to create lies and distortions about the purpose of the organization.

Meanwhile, I wasn't saying anything about Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson other than that they are leaders in the black community. I was saying that when MAINSTREAM black leaders in this country support to the New Black Panther Party, then I would be willing to concede that the organization is an ACTUAL problem and not just a group of like... three dozen inner-city blacks that ignorant people like yourself use as an example of the prevalence of black extremism. Yeah, the new Black Panthers are racist. AND? I'd bet good money that the KKK's membership list is easily TEN TIMES as large as the New Black Panther Party. So what bothers you about them that doesn't seem to bother you about the KKK? That it's blacks hating whites? That, finally, there's a little bit of balance in the racist organizations in this country?

Give me a break.

Those people don't really call themselves teabaggers do they?

Dirty Harry said:

Someone got shot. Leave the politics out of it and hope for a good outcome you inhuman fucks! It's a human life for fuck sakes and I never even heard of her until this. What, how, and why doesn't mean shit right now for her and her family.
If this is what humanity has become, I hope this fucking rock explodes in 2012 because humanity is lost.
I expected better from the enlightened pot smokers.

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And, as far as I know, it's ENTIRELY possible, neigh, PROBABLE that these people were killed BECAUSE OF POLITICS.

I agree that it's sick to use a tragedy for political purposes. But it's NOT sick to point out that POLITICS PROBABLY CAUSED THE KILLINGS. That elected officials and unelected officials on the right stoked the anger and hatred of their base in not-so-subtle ways PRECISELY so that this would happen.

Am I supposed to just say that it's fucking IRRELEVANT that right-wing websites posted the addresses of congresspeople who voted for health care, their personal information, the names of their CHILDREN in the run-up to the health care vote to intimidate them into voting against the legislation? Am I supposed to ignore that those activities were an OPEN INVITATION for people to do something EXACTLY like this?

I do hope the Congresswoman survives and has the speediest and most complete recovery possible.

But I'm not going to pull the wool over my eyes like some ninny and PRETEND as if this is just some sort of random act of violence that came out of nowhere-- it's not. The Sheriff in Tucson has called Arizona a "mecca of prejudice and bigotry."

The absolute WORST thing we can do here is to learn nothing from this and to just allow it to happen all over again and to assign blame where blame is due. I'm not "inhuman" for pointing that out.

Krang said:

The Tea Party is so a top-down political organization, although they may not be called that on FoxNews. They have their own idiot base of politicians who support and contribute to the various tea party organizations. Idiots like Sarah Palin. Who else do you think funds these organizations, like the Tea Party Express which sent a bus around the country to campaign?

Look up FreedomWorks, Tea Party Patriots, Dick Armey and the tea party on Google. Armey was the second-highest ranking congressman on Capitol hill for about 8 years. He was the Republican Majority leader. That's pretty top-down and his involvement with the movement is well-known. Hell, he wrote a fucking manifesto for them.

Can you say Astroturf? Looks like grass from afar, but sure it ain't organic.

Meanwhile you didn't call out TWO racist left-wing organizations. You called out ONE racist organization, that, to my knowledge, doesn't even have a left wing platform, (although they might) and a civil rights organization which isn't racist at all. A simple look at their wikipedia page will show that the whole "reconquistador" point is patently FALSE and used by people to create lies and distortions about the purpose of the organization.

Meanwhile, I wasn't saying anything about Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson other than that they are leaders in the black community. I was saying that when MAINSTREAM black leaders in this country support to the New Black Panther Party, then I would be willing to concede that the organization is an ACTUAL problem and not just a group of like... three dozen inner-city blacks that ignorant people like yourself use as an example of the prevalence of black extremism. Yeah, the new Black Panthers are racist. AND? I'd bet good money that the KKK's membership list is easily TEN TIMES as large as the New Black Panther Party. So what bothers you about them that doesn't seem to bother you about the KKK? That it's blacks hating whites? That, finally, there's a little bit of balance in the racist organizations in this country?

Give me a break.

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Okay, I'll give you a break.

The KKK was established as the radical arm of the DEMOCRATIC party. Is that too far out of your wishy-washy historical perspective? The Weathermen are not topically relevant, but segregation is.

And once again, if you only pay attention to the Proggie propaganda; of course you will believe the Tea Party is nothing more than Astroturf. After all, Nancy said it. It must be TRUE!

So, correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting your position; La Raza which translates to 'The Race' is not a racist organization.

Fuck me running.