Coco Growers Unite!

There are a few different ideas on this but here is what Canna says:

Canna distributed a brochure on their coco and one section states the following:

"The most reliable method for measuring the nutrient levels in COCO is the 1:1.5 extraction method. The pH and EC of the drain water generally deviates from the actual root situation, as COCO is able to retain and release elements.

1) Take a sample of the COCO from the slabs or pots. This can be done with a soil core sampler or a trowel. To get a respresentative sample the COCO must be collected from as many plants as possible.

2) Collect the sample in a bowl and determine whether it contains the right amount of moisture. The COCO has the right amount of moisture if moisture disappears between your fingers when you squeeze it. Add de-mineralized water if necessary and mix the COCO.

3) Take a 250ml measuring jug and fill it with 150ml of de-mineralized water. Add COCO to the 250ml mark. Fully mix and allow the slurry to settle for at least 2 hours.

4) Mix again and measure the pH.

5) Then filter this material and measure the EC.

A 1:1.5 analysis can best be done after 3 to 4 weeks. The target values for EC are between 1.1 and 1.3 and for the pH, between 5.3 and 6.2.

Very high EC levels increase the risk of burning symptoms. To limit this the COCO can be rinsed with acidified water containing Coco A/B nutrient at an EC of 0.65 (pH 5.."

Any recommendations on which organic nutrients work best in coco? Are organics nutrients worh it?

Mocha Rocha said:

Any recommendations on which organic nutrients work best in coco? Are organics nutrients worh it?

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Not really... I would probably suggest General Organics... or Roots Organics by Aurora would be my first organic choice, but it is really expensive. You will have a hard time finding a organic nutrient line that is designed and formulated for hydroponic use and even if you do it won't have the ideal ratios for growing in coco.

To answer the earlier question about Advanced Nutrients... They are just way too shady and overpriced... not to mention that they are always getting violations. They do things like list ingredients on the label that arent actually in the product. They also list false percentages on their labels. I could go on and on but the point is that they are con artists.

Hello group, I want to run a top fed drip system to six 5 gallon pots. 1000 watt switchable balast mh/hps,4x4x7 grow tent. I read its good to water in coco once a day. How long should I program my timer.Or should I time it first until water comes out of all pots? thanks CW.

just typed a long ass response and it got dumped by my computer

you want 10-30% total runoff... you will have to experiment becuase the pump size (PSI) and length of irrigation line along with temps, RH, strain, ect, ect, ect., will all be factors that you need to figure out.

Try 5-10 minuts and see if you get the 10-30% total runoff then adjust up or down as needed... it is going to change throughout the grow, so what works the first week wont be right for the 3rd week, ect., ect...

If you used 10 Gallons of water, then you would want a final total of 1-3 gallons of runoff to drain out in order to get your 10-30%.

Mocha Rocha said:

They are in week 6 of Bloom. The spot started on older leaves and are moving to the younger leaves.

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Definitely a deficiency but it could be caused by lockout/ pH issues... At first glance without more details i would say it may be a calcium issue...

what pH and nutrients/additives are you using? Do you have any idea of what is in your tap water or are you using RO water?

nas2007 said:

is it ok to flush canna coco soil? i mean i hear some lads saying they flush befor they put plants into flower to prevent salts build up ect. does to go for us in canna coco soil to?

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No flushing is needed and it may or may not cause unwanted stress to your roots and microbiology and more.

not that this has anything to do with what anyone has been talking about recently in the last few post, but i was on the House and garden contact page asking a couple of questions about their products and finally got a reply. i just thought that i would put it up here just in case anybody might have had the same question(s) that i had, and wanted to hear an answer from an actual House&Garden rep.:

ZEN
October 4, 2010 at 9:58 pm
I AM CURRENTLY USING CANNA NUTRIENTS, AND CANNA COCO. I AM VERY INTERESTED IN THE HOUSE AND GARDEN LINE. REASON ONE IS BECAUSE I WAS TOLD ABOUT THE SUGAR BASE AS OPPOSED TO THE SALT BASE IN CANNA. AND TWO: POUND FOR POUND HOUSE IS A LITTLE LESS $$$ THAN CANNA. BUT MY QUESTION TODAY IS; IF I USED THE COCOS A&B, MULTIZEN, ROOTS EXCEL.,TOP BOOSTER, BUD XL, DRIP CLEAN, AND THE SHOOTING POWDER WOULD THAT LEAVE MY COCO SO SATURATED WITH NUTRIENTS THAT I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO REUSE IT, WHICH IS ONE REASON I’M USING CANNA? IF NOT WHAT WOULD I HAVE TO DO TO PREP. THE COCO FOR REUSE. SECOND QUESTION; IS THERE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN USING R/O WATER, OR TAP WATER. THAT IS ANOTHER DRAW, FOR ME, FOR CANNA THE FACT THAT I CAN USE TAP WATER SUCCESSFULLY, AND ALSO I DONT WANT THE EXTRA EXPENSE, IMO, THAT COMES WITH R/O WATER.
I WILL SAY THIS THOUGH AFTER A WEEK OF USING THE ROOTS EXCEL. I GOT RID OF BASICALLY A BRAND NEW 1L BOTTLE OF RHIZOTONIC…….NO COMPARISON. ANOTHER REASON FOR THE PEAKED INTREST.
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.
-ZEN-
Reply

House & Garden
October 21, 2010 at 1:08 am
Hey ZEN
I don’t know of any nutrients that are sugar based! House and Garden is very low on salts due to the time spent breaking the product down into a more usable form which also removes excess salts. House and Garden Drip Clean also breaks down salts and is a great product to with any nutrient company. The only nutrients that your dealing with is in the base products and the Shooting Powder. The only other product you add to the roots with nutrients is our Roots Excelurator which is very mild. The only thing you need to be concerned with flushing out well is the Shooting powder if you want to reuse your cocos.
House and Garden is meant for fresh clean tap water! I would be costly to design your nutrients for RO water and make everyone buy a RO machine when there are a lot of people with fresh clean water. In the city they have high levels of chlorine and contaminants that need to be R.O.ed to insure plant survival.
Just remember to that Canna is an older recipe that House and Garden helped develop.
Peace Out and Happy Growing! Rob



PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

starting my next cycle of clones in coco, done rock wool and soil.. currently have a strain of kush in about 9 weeks now... still got at least another 3 or 4 weeks to go... fucking sativas... hopefully this next strain is mostly indica... i totally messed up my cycle due to having these kush... didnt know they were a 12-13 week strain... this is only my 2nd real grow... i should start a journal... im runnin 1-1000w and 2 400's with a 3rd 400 if needed... my kush are over 6 feet... in a walk in closet... damn... i should post pics??

Hey Jberry and All,

Here are the specs

Strain: Kush OG, $, Fire

Light: 1000watt HPS Aircooled

Water: R/O water 70ppm

Temps: 76-83
Closed Room with A/C

Co2: Bloom Week 1-6 1500ppm
Week 6-8 1000ppm-600ppm

Nutrients: Bloom

Week 1
FF Open Sesame, AN Sensi Bloom A/B, Prosilicate, GH Diamond Nectar, GH Floranectar
Water In pH: 5.8 1000ppm

Week 2
Phosphololad, AN Sensi Bloom A/B, Prosilicate, GH Diamond Nectar, GH Floranectar
1200ppm
Water In pH: 6.0 1000ppm

Week 3
Super Bud Blaster, AN Sensi Bloom A/B, Prosilicate, GH Diamond Nectar, GH Floranectar.
Water In PH: 6.0 1000ppm
Water Runoff: pH: 5.3 2000+ppm
Noticed Problem Started Flush

Week 4.5-6
AN Sensi Bloom A/B, AN Sensical
Water In pH:6.2 PPM 500
Water Runoff: PH was 5.3-5.5 Now 5.9 Was 1200-1500 now is about 600ppm

Week 6.5 now
Initially I was watering with nutrients every watering. Recently talk to an AN tech rep and they said I am only suppose to water with nutrients every 3 watering. He also said AN nutrients aren't designed for coco and I should Sensical. I though it is hydro so it needs constant nutrients and that you should flush every 2-3 weeks. Also I was not watering to runoff in the beginning. Now I am. Only about a week or so left should I flush with plain ph'ed RO water or low (300ppm) nutrients water? Also what other nutrient manufacturers should I consider that are designed for coco? Sythetic or Organic? Also is silicate needed? I was using but it messes with pH.Also resivoir temps are around 75 is this ok. I was also thinking of adding oxygen to the water just before water is this a good Idea or overkill. Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks

anyone have any experience with this brand of coco? just wanna make sure its good enough for my babies. its all i found at my local hydro place.

http://sunleaves.com/detail.asp?sku=SCCB300

normajean123 said:

anyone have any experience with this brand of coco? just wanna make sure its good enough for my babies. its all i found at my local hydro place.

http://sunleaves.com/detail.asp?sku=SCCB300

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This coco is okay. I found it to be more work than I want to do to buffer it. With work, family and all of my other projects. I don’t want to buffer my coco

I now use Nutrifield's Premium Coco.

normajean123 said:

anyone have any experience with this brand of coco? just wanna make sure its good enough for my babies. its all i found at my local hydro place.

http://sunleaves.com/detail.asp?sku=SCCB300

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bricks are no good, imo. unless you dont mind buffering them first, because 9 times out of 10 they are not buffered. and trust me you dont want to spend six to eight weeks wondering whats going on and why your plants are not producing, or dying, or whatever. but its a simple mistake that anybody will make because the guy at the hydro shop will tell you all that you want to hear about coco, but he wont tell you that it needs to be buffered.......cause half the time "they" dont know. and if they do show you the bricks and tell you that it needs to be buffered i'll bet you that they have a "Real good buffering agent" that they can sell yoiu to go along with that. thats why i use the loose coco(Canna) because it is pre-buffered, but there are alot of other brands of loose cocos out there that are buffered too. but for the most part mostly all of the bricks are not buffered. and to me the cheap price of one of those bricks is not worth the expense of time, money, damaged crops, and hoping that i buffered it right myself. i just spend the few extra $$$ for the loose stuff, cause you'll make it back. and hell if you are not commercial, just show a friend some love and give him a half for 30 bucks(Canna cost about $26-$29 per 50L bag), and your good. but like vdubb said, its more work than you'll really want to do.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

kevinjones said:

They are blue cheese from big buddha and they suggest 9 weeks of flowering. My concern is whether or not I should keep on feeding them nutes or start flushing. Idk you guys get the idea. I am going to try and get some pics of the places so we can get some true designs in. For right now this can be an equipment debate. I know I am doing the canna A and B so nutes are done for I think.Now its just designing the most productive rooms possible, and learning from some of the experts here.

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hey what up man. i dont how much longer you have to go, but start tapering down your nutes. never used srtaight water. for example when i'm just about done like week 5 or 6, if i'm at 3.5ml per liter the next couple of feedings i give 3ml per liter, then a couple more and i go down to 2.5ml per liter and so on and so forth till i'm at about 1.5ml to 1ml per liter for my last couple of feedings. its worked real well for me, compared to when i first started using coco and was hitting it with 4ml per liter till the end and my stuff was kinda harsh. but as i said that the way i "somewhat" flush. hope that helps.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

Quoting my posts from an another thread to see if I can find answers here.

Selleri said:

I've run in a problem with my second coco grow. The two Sage 'n' Sours have been in coco/vulcaponic (~65/35) hempys for about a week and a half now and the growth has been really slow, they are still developing the first actual set of fingered leafs. Now that has bothered me for few days now, but yesterday I noticed that the leaves are somewhat droopy and quite pale green with a tint of yellow. Now after reading this thread I started suspecting pH and after checking I found out that there indeed was something wrong with the pH. Though I only have a liquid drop test kit with a piece of paper with the corresponding colours (which I dropped in the toilet) to compare the contents of the test vial, well I dont trust the thing too much, but the readings I got were around 6.5-7 ph for the bucket no. 1 and 7+ for the no. 2. I made a quick adjustment with tap water dropped down to around 5.5-5.8 pH until the water I got from the overflow hole was around 5.8-6.0 pH.

Now for the actual question. Could this have caused the symptoms I described above? Also I have canadian xpress ultimate indoor nutes for coco but I havent given it to the plants yet, however would that be advisable and at what strenght?

Sorry for the near incoherent text, and thanks for the possible clarification on the issue. Now I must get some sleep as I didnt get much last night thanks to the damn IBS.

Cheers!

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Selleri said:

Now about a day later I've noticed improvement in the situation, plants are not nearly as droopy but the yellowish tint havent disappeared yet. Thinking of giving them both around half a liter of water with 1-2ml per liter canadian xpress ulticoco growth (normal dosage is 5-7ml / liter) and the normal dose of 10ml/l of BN Bioroots to see if it's about the lack of nutes in the medium. Post your ideas and possible advises on what I should do as I am relatively new to growing and ever greener with coco coir.

Edit.

Problems arise again, the pH wont stay down. It will be okay for a while, but now couple hours after I flushed the buckets again to correct pH levels, the pH has started to rise again. If anyone got any good tips on how to get the pH stay down properly, please share them.

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Decided not to stress about it anymore, if they wont grow, they just wont. If that is the case, I'll just end this short and start over with a regular coco grow instead of a coco hempy buckets. All I would loose is a few bucks and 3 weeks.

Selleri said:

Quoting my posts from an another thread to see if I can find answers here.





Decided not to stress about it anymore, if they wont grow, they just wont. If that is the case, I'll just end this short and start over with a regular coco grow instead of a coco hempy buckets. All I would loose is a few bucks and 3 weeks.

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hey man sorry bout that. but correct me if im wrong but doesnt a hempy bucket kinda leave the nutes in the bottom of the bucket or whatever for the roots to feed on? well first i think you would be better off letting the nutes drain to waste. second i wouldnt mix anything with my coco. unless its a brand that uses a mix of mediums, "and" has its own line of nutes. me personally i use the loose coco only. i dont mix anything in it and i only use coco specific nutes, period. thats just me though.
but if you think its time to cut them loose then go ahead. i wouldnt blame you. some pics would be nice, cause it would make it easier for some one to help you if they could.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

Yes on a hempy bucket you drill the overflow about 3-5'' from the bottom of the bucket resulting in the roots sitting in the bottom with nutes in later on in the plants life. (I used straight perlite for my hempy grow medium)

Jeffdogg said:

Yes on a hempy bucket you drill the overflow about 3-5'' from the bottom of the bucket resulting in the roots sitting in the bottom with nutes in later on in the plants life. (I used straight perlite for my hempy grow medium)

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thanks i remember Butters was running a hempy style grow. but he found that drain to waste nutes should remain drain to waste. unless your running a recirculating system, with a rez, and recirculating nutes i wouldnt let the roots sit in any drainage. now thats only my opinion when it comes to "COCO". i cant speak for any other medium.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

ZEN MASTER said:

hey man sorry bout that. but correct me if im wrong but doesnt a hempy bucket kinda leave the nutes in the bottom of the bucket or whatever for the roots to feed on? well first i think you would be better off letting the nutes drain to waste. second i wouldnt mix anything with my coco. unless its a brand that uses a mix of mediums, "and" has its own line of nutes. me personally i use the loose coco only. i dont mix anything in it and i only use coco specific nutes, period. thats just me though.
but if you think its time to cut them loose then go ahead. i wouldnt blame you. some pics would be nice, cause it would make it easier for some one to help you if they could.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

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Actually the situation has gotten a lot better. The one identified as the bucket #1 is in really bad shape, but still better than what it was. Now the #2 has really taken up a spurt in growth and looks great apart from the odd yellowish/brownish spots on the first pair of single finger fans, had diagnosed them as pH-spots, but dont know for real. As I said before, I stopped stressing about things like pH and heat (not really a problem this time, but last summer left me traumatized so I panic everytime it's even close to 28 degree celcius.) I've started feeding the plants with every watering (around 1/4 of a normal strenght) and this has helped them a lot. It would seem as if the pH wasnt the problem, but I cant really believe plants that young and small would suffer from defiencies even if fed with just pH corrected tap water. Then again, the slow growth rates could've been caused by lack of nutes and me being too careful to feed the plants in fear of killing the plants.

Future plans are: probably getting rid of #1, getting a screen that fits the closet, vegging #2 until it fills the screen, flowering the plant until it blocks the screen, harvest, plan the next project a bit better.

Coco doesnt seem to go too well with the hempy buckets so I should think of a new way of growing. Maybe I'll just try regular coco grow for my next project as I still have two and a half bricks of coco left. Also a small question, I've heard that some people soak the coco bricks in water with some nutes in it to compensate the lack of nutrients in the coco itself and the limit of how much you can water the plant without drowning it at the start. Anyone here done that?

Edit. Pics are impossible to get at the moment as I dont, infact, own a camera as I had one on my previous phone. Which I broke when I tried to answer a call by pressing the word answer on the screen.. it snapped.