cloning the clones of the clones of clones

i've personally taken clones from clones multiple times with no noticeable differences in the actual bud. although i have had variations in yeild and quality that could only be attributed to changes that I made... ie; trying different nutes, lights, grow methods, and or harvesting time. DNA is DNA forever, it cant be changed without having new DNA to mix with it.... or possibly radiation, so uness your growing on three mile island... clone away. put me down for "do it"

KP2 said:

i actually have better results cloning branches from plants that are going into flower than i do with moms. mothers can be an issue of their own, esp after months of sitting in one pot. both of mine are several years old, and need to be re-potted badly, or root pruned with fresh soil. an unhappy mother will make for clones that take longer to 'take off'. if you use moms, take care of them like they're getting ready to flower, so cuttings are prime.

either way, if you take care of your plants, you are essentially preserving the strain, and you should never see degradation issues

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thank you, thats a really well rounded answer and assures me in my adventure. +rep

Mr.Therapy Man said:

I know a guy who does it the way your talking about and he says hes better off not keeping mothers.He just takes clones before he puts them into the flowering chamber

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awesome, thats exactly what i was planning on doing, thank you very much

SloMo said:

i've personally taken clones from clones multiple times with no noticeable differences in the actual bud. although i have had variations in yeild and quality that could only be attributed to changes that I made... ie; trying different nutes, lights, grow methods, and or harvesting time. DNA is DNA forever, it cant be changed without having new DNA to mix with it.... or possibly radiation, so uness your growing on three mile island... clone away. put me down for "do it"

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haha thank you, good answer! +rep

so far the count is
*Do it forever=4
*Do it for a while=1
*DONT DO IT=0

my view on it is that clones from clones from clones suffer more stress as cuttings rooting is a stressfull matter. If you take a cutting from a plant that isn't completely healthy the clones will suffer more stress.
If should show its results in the minions.

however, if you grow your plants stress-free and they are just fine the stress should be fine and the clones should be exact copies of their mother.

There is a different growing pattern between clones and seeds. note that.


I ran 3 runs taking clones from clones and the 3rd run was way crappier. I blame the summer for stressing my last run though.


example for my theory - the OG Kush. Its there for a while as clone only (lately its been made into seeds again with 2 clones btw) and its one of the most sought after strains. If after all these years it would have degraded I doubt people will still look after it.

Freak0Nature said:

oh, so you are using mothers?!? im trying to figure out if i can clone just off of whatever batch is in veg right before i bloom then, so i have a set of clones ready for veg. no mother.

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i have moms because i alternate strains. they allow me to work one strain for 14-20 weeks (including veg time) and not have a large number of other strains to worry about while i'm focusing on the one. the mom will provide up to 20 cuttings, those 20 will provide about 80 cuttings. if i double run, i clone the clones of the clones of clones

Mr. FreakONature - I hear your frustrations. It's to hard decide what's right when you have two opposite opinions.... I do one of two things.
A. Run a test myself so, I know what works best for me in my environment with my nutrients. Soo many variables to consider
B. I turn to one of the many trusted canna bibles and read what they have to say.

Here's what Ed Rosenthal has to say on the topic:
Question: Do mothers plants lose potency after a few generations? "The potential of a plant is determined by its genetics. Unlike seeds, clones are virtually exact genetic duplicates of the plants from which they are taken."

Ive heard both now, I could see how beginning from seed would be the most solid way of getting a strong mother plant with stong genetics, and the cuttings from that would produce the same genetics... so really it probably comes down to how well you took care of the next generation of the cuttings that would affect the quality of the offspring.

Ahhhh, now were getting down to it!. so quality and stress bassically trump any technique or idea... if your doing what you want to do correctly then it will turn out fine is pretty much what im picking up on.
ochack, i think i will just do what im feeling, hopefully ill be able to make some happy healthy plants!
claptoman, thank you for the stress argument, i had not even thought about it.
kp, glad to see someone had a similar ish idea as me, IM NOT CRAZY(psst yes you are)... well damn...

drlovebud said:

Ive heard both now, I could see how beginning from seed would be the most solid way of getting a strong mother plant with stong genetics, and the cuttings from that would produce the same genetics... so really it probably comes down to how well you took care of the next generation of the cuttings that would affect the quality of the offspring.

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i think thats pretty close to a final conclusion that some one would have trouble arguing against.

I have read that Dutch and Swiss growers have been successfully cloning from clones up to about 20 times with no noticeable difference. But I have also heard (from multiple sources throughout my life of growing) that every generation cloned from clones you lose precisely 20 percent of potency. Whereas I doubt this, I do believe something is happening. I am somewhat familiar with genetic degeneration. I believe when the the plant cells split and begin to multiply in the regeneration process a bit of the code is not changed, but weakened. Also I am familiar with decreased chemical activity rate, as I have seen the degradation of THC, CBC, CBN, and CBD through certain processes such as heat , absence of heat, compression, light, and so on. So I know that this tiny chemical molecule, when at its most potent, is highly active (spinning fast). Degeneration may lead to a slowed activity rate (less potent). Potency is not relative to just how much resin content there is, but also how psychoactive that organic chemical resin is. However, this does not stop me from taking my own clones from clones. But I usually only do it a few times. I like variety.

Hope this helps

Freak0Nature said:

i think thats pretty close to a final conclusion that some one would have trouble arguing against.

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yes, but remember.... an unhappy clone can recover and become happy again, returning you to original status. genetics didn't change, conditions did

Genetics never change unless they mutate. In this case I believe they weaken ever-so-slightly each time. Big dif

yowza..... guess this is the end of it?... i'd like to hear some more educated opinions.

Freak0Nature said:

The easiest way i have seen it explained on here is that its like photocopying a photocopy of a picture(and so on)
although yes it will still be the same picture, it will never be as pure, as crisp, or as clean as the original, becasue it has been replicated over replications instead of just replicas from the original(mother).

But ive seen just as compelling arguments for the oposite, lol

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I once heard that if you have to use an analogy to make a point...you may not have one

I don't mean that to be critical, but it's nice to get the real answer.

This is no mystery! It happens in nature everywhere. It is the nature of genetics. So there is no shock to me that cannabis undergoes degeneration. Degeneration is not the changing of DNA formation. It is the deterioration of its perceptibility by living cells. When we inbreed animals it happens. When we clone from clones IT HAPPENS. The strain, and the strength of the mother plant's genetics, will probably determine at what rate this degeneration occurs. But many say it is about 20 percent regardless. I am surprised more people here have'nt heard of this. I will still continue to clone from clones on a short term scale (when my mothers are cloned out), because time is money. But I dont see what is so hard about keeping a mother or two from seed, simply for this purpose. This would guarantee, no matter what side of the arguement you are on, that you wouldn't be wrong.

I had a NoCal grower tell me that experienced growers up there prefer to start from seed each time to get a more viable, disease free, stronger plant, both indoors and out. He told me that by cloning the same plant over and over there are problems with degredation. He said that you could femenize the seedlings by putting them under 24hrs of light for 12-14 days when the seedlings are @3" tall. I am setting up my first grow room and will try this method.

It won't degrade...

Original plant DNA--to-->Clone - Same DNA as original plant (hell, it's the same plant!)
Original Clone --to-->2nd Clone - Same DNA as original clone eg. same DNA as original plant! (still the original plant!)
2nd Clone --to--3rd Clone - Same DNA as second clone eg. same DNA as 2nd clone, same DNA as 1st Clone, same DNA as original plant (still the original plant!)
etc.

It doesn't matter if you're on the 34th generation of clones, it's still coming from the original plant.

The photocopier analogy is false, because cloning has nothing to do with photo resolution and reproduction.

I've carried clones through 12 cycles and never had a problem that I didn't create through some other environmental variable.

an anology of a photocopy is incorrect. the plants genome is the same on each side of the branch you cut. now over time random mutations could happen, the same as if you had one mother for a long, long time. outside of that possibility, all clones should appear the same as the first =-)

i have cloned from clones from clones and it has been perfect. Yeild is about the same everytime. Bud is exactly the same everytime.

If anything, my plants have gotten bigger and stronger.

I don't think anything degrades ever...I think it all comes down to how it is taken care of.

As I get better with technique, my yeilds and taste have been better.

I don't keep a mother...I dunno...older plants are harder to care for. I think they are supposed to have a natural life cycle and then die out.

Let it be said that I grow indoors with the same conditions.