CFL Lumens/Watt Chart - Find Most Efficient Setup
- Thread starter FirstTimeGrow
- Start date
ThE sAtIvA hIgH
Well-Known Member
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Light Intensity [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Light intensity diminishes the further it has to travel. This is the same for HID, CFL or your normal household lamp. If you hold a light meter up close to any lamp and then slowly lower the meter, even a few inches, you will see the light measurement reduces dramatically. (If you can borrow, beg, steal or get access to a light meter please try this ~ you will be extremely surprised at the rate at which the light intensity reduces over a short distance)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Light from an HID or HPS lamp reduces by half for every foot it is away from the plants. So if your lamps are 2' or 3 above your plants much of the light is wasted. The problem with HID lamps is they are so hot you cannot place them close to your plants and much of the light, and your money, is wasted.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]One benefit of using high-out put CFLs is that they do not generate as much heat and can be kept almost on top of the plants producing the exact 100% PAR light, with no loss of intensity. So if you position these new lamps close to the leaves you get the benefit of 100% PAR light in the correct 400nw to 700nw range, giving the plant the correct light colours and light quality.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Light intensity diminishes the further it has to travel. This is the same for HID, CFL or your normal household lamp. If you hold a light meter up close to any lamp and then slowly lower the meter, even a few inches, you will see the light measurement reduces dramatically. (If you can borrow, beg, steal or get access to a light meter please try this ~ you will be extremely surprised at the rate at which the light intensity reduces over a short distance)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Light from an HID or HPS lamp reduces by half for every foot it is away from the plants. So if your lamps are 2' or 3 above your plants much of the light is wasted. The problem with HID lamps is they are so hot you cannot place them close to your plants and much of the light, and your money, is wasted.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]One benefit of using high-out put CFLs is that they do not generate as much heat and can be kept almost on top of the plants producing the exact 100% PAR light, with no loss of intensity. So if you position these new lamps close to the leaves you get the benefit of 100% PAR light in the correct 400nw to 700nw range, giving the plant the correct light colours and light quality.[/FONT]
WrldWidRadio911
Well-Known Member
ThE sAtIvA hIgH
Well-Known Member
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]For growers PAR is all-important ~ and as important as lumens! PAR stands for > Photosynthetic Active Radiation.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Photosynthetic, the light sensed by a leaf pigment.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Active, the light that causes the leaf pigment to become active for making energy[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Radiation, another word for light & photon energy[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR is a measurement scale used internationally as a metric light measurement and is becoming more and more relevant to growing and greenhouse light measurement. Why is it important to you?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR is the measure of light that a plant actually senses and uses, and it is the light the plant sees and can use that is more important then the actual output lumen of the grow lamp! [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]* A large HID lamp may give out loads of lumens, but if it's too far away from your plant most are wasted (remember light intensity diminishes with distance) In addition the light a plant can use from these lamps is limited because the plant cannot see or use it because it is in the wrong spectrum.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]So the main value of the PAR measurement is that it is the only measure that takes into account the actual light and light colours that the plant uses to energise its pigments and generate sugar energy, and its the sugar that makes your plants grow and produce such sweet fruits![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Photosynthetic, the light sensed by a leaf pigment.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Active, the light that causes the leaf pigment to become active for making energy[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Radiation, another word for light & photon energy[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR is a measurement scale used internationally as a metric light measurement and is becoming more and more relevant to growing and greenhouse light measurement. Why is it important to you?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR is the measure of light that a plant actually senses and uses, and it is the light the plant sees and can use that is more important then the actual output lumen of the grow lamp! [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]* A large HID lamp may give out loads of lumens, but if it's too far away from your plant most are wasted (remember light intensity diminishes with distance) In addition the light a plant can use from these lamps is limited because the plant cannot see or use it because it is in the wrong spectrum.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]So the main value of the PAR measurement is that it is the only measure that takes into account the actual light and light colours that the plant uses to energise its pigments and generate sugar energy, and its the sugar that makes your plants grow and produce such sweet fruits![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
ThE sAtIvA hIgH
Well-Known Member
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR and Fluorescent Lamps[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]In the past fluorescent lamps were always known to have excellent 'daylight' colour output but not the same photon power as HID / HPS lamps. The spectrum from fluorescents was ideal for propagation/seedlings but not for real time growing, because they were small watt versions and did not have the lumen / photon output. (i.e. an average household fluorescent tube is only about 35 watts. Nice spectrum but low light output! ) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]HID and HPS lamps have large lumen / photon output but are poor on colours omitted, but these lamps were the best available lamps at the time. However they do generate lots of heat and can be expensive to operate. They also need separate ballasts, control contacts and systems.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]The development of high-output compact fluorescent means you can now get the correct colour spectrum, always associated with fluorescents, but with much higher light output. This means that CFL's are now capable of much, much higher lumen output with all the benefits of the ideal, spectrum output.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Photon strength is still not as strong as HID Lamps (although with our new reflectors we are getting there) but because these new lamps generate much less heat they can be placed just inches of the leaves, and this is a very, very important factor when using grow lamps[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]In the past fluorescent lamps were always known to have excellent 'daylight' colour output but not the same photon power as HID / HPS lamps. The spectrum from fluorescents was ideal for propagation/seedlings but not for real time growing, because they were small watt versions and did not have the lumen / photon output. (i.e. an average household fluorescent tube is only about 35 watts. Nice spectrum but low light output! ) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]HID and HPS lamps have large lumen / photon output but are poor on colours omitted, but these lamps were the best available lamps at the time. However they do generate lots of heat and can be expensive to operate. They also need separate ballasts, control contacts and systems.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]The development of high-output compact fluorescent means you can now get the correct colour spectrum, always associated with fluorescents, but with much higher light output. This means that CFL's are now capable of much, much higher lumen output with all the benefits of the ideal, spectrum output.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Photon strength is still not as strong as HID Lamps (although with our new reflectors we are getting there) but because these new lamps generate much less heat they can be placed just inches of the leaves, and this is a very, very important factor when using grow lamps[/FONT]
WrldWidRadio911
Well-Known Member
I need to start using my MOLASSES!
ThE sAtIvA hIgH
Well-Known Member
lolol i hope your not embarasing yourself by saying i should have everton on my avatar ?
FirstTimeGrow
Well-Known Member
Agreed, but who puts CFLs 1 foot away?
I have all of mine within 1" of the plant with reflectors on all, in enclosed reflective area. I lose very little light/intensity.
nongreenthumb
Well-Known Member
re read everything i wrote
I have never said that you should keep a cfl at a foot away,
i was only explaining to someone that light deminishes the same regardless of bulb type.
I have never said that you should keep a cfl at a foot away,
i was only explaining to someone that light deminishes the same regardless of bulb type.
nongreenthumb
Well-Known Member
oh and i keep my one and only cfl a foot away because of heat
FirstTimeGrow
Well-Known Member
Ok, I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to say. This thread was made to find the most efficient setup and get input about CFL lighting setups.
I know that an HPS system is better, but CFLs are cheaper and require less wattage. As well, I can put my CFLs so close to the plants that I don't lose many lumens.
I have 42w CFLs within 2" of my plants not burning them; however, I do have a fan on them at all times.
nongreenthumb
Well-Known Member
not that this is a pissing contest or my dads bigger than yours, but the cfl i have is 250w and produces a surprising amount of heat, it severly harmed 5 plants on its first day of use.
are you going to use a hps or anything else to flower with or just your 42w's
Doctor
Well-Known Member
lolol i hope your not embarasing yourself by saying i should have everton on my avatar ?
you should have the one and only MAN UUUU
RED ARRRMMMMY!!! REDD ARRRMMMYY!!! RED ARRMMY!!!
lol
Roseman
Elite Rolling Society
I can only comment on the success I have had with CFLs, and how I enjoy coming home everyday and moving them around, and how easy it is to move them. I VEG with 85 Watts, different bulbs for red and blue spectrums. I used one bulb per plant until I get to teh FLOWERING stage. Then I go crazy with 65 watts, 45 watts and 24 watt bulbs, sticking them everywhere I can.
Look at this man's CFL grow here:
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/9841-update-cfl-46-days-flower.html
and look at my Grow:
Look at a few of my pics here in Grow Room Setup:
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5030
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5029
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5028 < nice top
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5027 < 4 feet tall
PEACE
Look at this man's CFL grow here:
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/9841-update-cfl-46-days-flower.html
and look at my Grow:
Look at a few of my pics here in Grow Room Setup:
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5030
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5029
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5028 < nice top
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5027 < 4 feet tall
PEACE
FirstTimeGrow
Well-Known Member
I will only be using my CFLs. I am down to 3 plants now, trashed one male yesterday, and I think another is a male. I guess 2/4 is right on, but I really wanted 3/4.
Regardless, these 7 bulbs will be about right for 2 plants anyway to get some fat plants. I would probably get the same amount with 4 plants and same lights anyway.
Thanx a lot 4 this Sativa. I'm a newbie struggling to come to terms with light basics and your comments are some of the clearest and most informative on the subject that I've read.
FirstTimeGrow
Well-Known Member
They are cheaper to run, and are a lot cooler, so you can put them closer, and you don't need to worry about ventilation as much.
How many you use depends on what you want, and how much you want to spend. Go by the lumens when deciding though. They say that the sun puts out 10,000 lumens/sqaure foot, so if you can get something like 2000 lumens/square foot or more that would be ideal. I have 3 plants in a small area with 7 CFLs that total about 15,000 lumens. As the plants get bigger, you may want to ad light to increase side lighting, etc.
As far as the light spectrum goes, the light temperature is measured in degrees of Kelvin. 3000K is warm light and is good for flowering. 6000k or 6500k is daylight/white light and is good for vegging. Usually it will say this on the package of the bulb or on the ballast of the bulb, but sometimes you can't find it anywhere.
TheConstantGardner
Well-Known Member
aren't cfls classified hid (high intensity discharge)?
I don't know why they get such a bad rep here. When used properly they can produce good results (don't read this as exceptional). I've got 24 cfls around two plants and the bottom branch buds are as big as the ones directly under the cola. Penetration isn't that big of an issue when you can put 12 of 'em over, under, beside, and every other angle around a plant.
My next grow is going to be a scrog grow under a rack of 24 lights (I may even go up to 36 since I have the sockets and lights at my disposal). I'll have even coverage from corner to corner of my 8 square foot growing area. Since I won't be concerned with getting any bottom growth, they should be great. Besides, in a scrog, why would the stalk need light penetration?
I don't know why they get such a bad rep here. When used properly they can produce good results (don't read this as exceptional). I've got 24 cfls around two plants and the bottom branch buds are as big as the ones directly under the cola. Penetration isn't that big of an issue when you can put 12 of 'em over, under, beside, and every other angle around a plant.
My next grow is going to be a scrog grow under a rack of 24 lights (I may even go up to 36 since I have the sockets and lights at my disposal). I'll have even coverage from corner to corner of my 8 square foot growing area. Since I won't be concerned with getting any bottom growth, they should be great. Besides, in a scrog, why would the stalk need light penetration?