best air stone, diffuser, and pump? dwc

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by krealward, Dec 30, 2009.

  1.  
    krealward

    krealward Member

    I am doing my first dwc grow. I am having eight buckets (and only want to use one powerful pump). Just wondering what you guys think I should go with. The bendable air diffuser tubes, the circular air stones @ petsmart, multiple little cylinder air stones? And also what size pump should I use? Will the ecoplus air 8 work for all eight buckets? I'm also following making a bucket cloner like the ez-clone style, what size submerable should I use for this? thanks for the input -Kree
  2.  
    Illegal Smile

    Illegal Smile Guest

    I'd look at the 950 gph sunleaves pump. I find the all stone (not inlaid in plastic) airstones that are sort of triangular shaped the best among the cheap ones. The high end diffusers are great but very expensive.
  3.  
    krealward

    krealward Member

    thanks for the tip illegal smile. I was thinking about hooking my pump to an 48" air diffuser and having it spiral towards the center and then hooking it to a round air stone in the center so the whole bottom of the bucket is distributing air. (for all eight buckets) Do you think that would push enough air? And also, do you have any idea how loud those pumps are? My grow room is in our walk in closet right next to the bed. thanks for any input -Kree
  4.  
    Illegal Smile

    Illegal Smile Guest

    It's really a matter of what you want the bubbles to do, just oxygenate the water, or also water the medium until the roots are in the water. Read the link below.
  5.  
    tea tree

    tea tree Well-Known Member

    the rule of thumb that I have been able to find and have had great success with is five watt of air pump power to five gallons of water. Or one watt to one gallon. This can I have read go as low as .5 watt per gallon. It works but growth is not as vigorous. The most important part is getting that pump wattage. eBay sellers will send u the infor if you ask so will hydro shops as sometimes they dont list it. For the ecoplus pumps I found it by the googling and the eco plus pumps are nice wattage for the price. For eight buckets I would think about one of those huge comercial 60 dollar pumps at hydro stores that is at least 40 watts. Yu can buy replacement part for those is they break too. I think airhoses might be nice. I mean air stones that are hoses with holes. However I think bubble discs might get the most air in. The smaller the bubbles the more DO.
  6.  
    krealward

    krealward Member

    thanks for the input guys, I'm off to try out some new pumps! /Kree
  7.  
    mindphuk

    mindphuk Well-Known Member

  8.  
    pr0fesseur

    pr0fesseur Well-Known Member

    Sorry to dig this up but id like to add that if you do the math disc air stones have a greater surface area than a cylinder. and this company Alita http://www.alita.com/diffuser/sintered.phpmakes the BEST air stones through a process called sintering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering using a material called Adamantine Spar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamantine_Spar
    which has a hardness of 9! which is 7 times harder than porcelin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness


    These are INDESTRUCTIBLE! and produce the best diffusion of any airstone diffuser period! buy them here
    http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/air-stones-c-28_34.html
    [​IMG]
    mindphuk likes this.
  9.  
    711grower

    711grower Active Member

    is there a website that actualy sells these indestructable air stones
  10.  
    pr0fesseur

    pr0fesseur Well-Known Member

    oops check my previous post i forgot a link...
  11.  
    pr0fesseur

    pr0fesseur Well-Known Member

    50.26 Inches of surface area 9 on the hardness scale indestructible! put this in the bottom of your buckets gents! this thing makes so many bubbles in a 5 Gal bucket it raises the surface level drastically! The typical air stones dont put out air evenly like these puppies! Typical airstones only put out air bubbles in one spot this delivers air to thw whole of the bucket bottom.!!!


    [​IMG]:bigjoint::weed:
  12.  
    OregonMeds

    OregonMeds Well-Known Member

    Indestructible and indefinitely reusable? How hard to sterilize/clean? Even if they don't "clog" there's bound to be chemical buildup of some sort right?
  13.  
    fatman7574

    fatman7574 New Member

    One pump, one venturi valve. If you want really small bubbles put the venturi on the pumps inlet size. Larger bubbles put the venturi on the pump exit size. To control the number of bubbles attach a small gate valve or ball valve to the air inlet tubing attached to the venturi valve. Just plumb everthing up in a circle. Uniseals are about the easiest way to plumb buckets.

    Uniseal: http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1617/Uniseals/uniseals/0
  14.  
    pr0fesseur

    pr0fesseur Well-Known Member

    Pretty simple to clean really i use 50%h2o2 and let it soak..Boric acid works too... i havent had one of these clog fully yet...im sure if they really get clogged you could use lye to break up any solids and rinse well...i wouldent use any cleaners you dont know whats in them... at least boric acid and lye are water soluable and work REALLY well...Remember these airstones are made for PONDS so with the amount of air needed to drive them keeps them pretty clog free as well.
    They supposedly last for years..ive had smaller ones for over 2 years they dont break because theyre fused together unlike the bonded ones which use some sort of agent to bond the particles together.. if i could afford it i would use the limewood airstones those are by far the best! the bubbles that come out of those are amazing to behold.

    http://www.lnt.com/show_product/46401/?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=datafeed&utm_term=46401
  15.  
    pr0fesseur

    pr0fesseur Well-Known Member

    Great link thanks ive been looking for these.! I Agree Fatman venturi valves are a great thing..but IMHO only in large rez. pumps tend to heat up water in small spaces. its really not about how many bubbles you get in the water but how long the bubble has in contact WITH the water..venturis are great for this and IMHO a MUCH better solution in a large res.. but for buckets seriously try the super large disc and youll be glad you did...the discs can handle over 20L/Min you can breath out through the disc without very muchj resistance.. and need a HEFTY air pump to push them...ill post a pic of the little ones later today when i get in...
  16.  
    fatman7574

    fatman7574 New Member

    I personally do not recommend submersible pumps becausethey are cooled by the water so therefore heat the way ter to much. That and most people buy cheap submersible which have poor efficincies so they definiteely heat the water. Most air cooled pumps are pumps made for salt water aquairiums (or should be) and are therefore air cooled and magnetic drive so they contribute to very litle increase in reservoir water temps. Putting a venturi on their inlet means the pump chops up the air into very liite bubbles which means large suface area per air volume and long water contact time. Plus the circulay tive effect of the pumped water keeps the roots in motions so that all the roots are exposed to more high DO water rtaher than just the outter layer ogf the roots mass. Air pumps just do not put out a lot of volume at any water head. Air blowers are too noisy as they have an irritating pitch (whine) to their noise output. Lime wood/ bass wood have smaller bubble output but limited volume with small economical air pumps. Hardwood airstones such as oak have very small bubbles but require higher air pressures. About the best choice is a needle wheel pump but they require more maintenance (needle wheel replacments) than an air cooled pump with a venturi. An economical air pumpsis just too dismal in its air pressure and air volume output when pumping at pressures needed with wood airstones out put. If you spend much money then you might as well justs skip the air pump.

    All in all you still need to consider only a DWC really benefits by airstones over a small pump as they have small air/water interfaces due to all the roots. Any reservoir with a large open air/water interface is more efficient kept at a high DO by just using a small aquairium power head pointed at the water surface. More air enters the water at the ar ir interface than through air bubbles unless you have extreme amounts of air volume IE a blower.
  17.  
    pr0fesseur

    pr0fesseur Well-Known Member

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I agree Completely! i would just like to add that there is a new powerhead that m trying to get my hands on that will alleviate some heat issues in a small res check out this link. the pumps have the head inside the tank and the motor outside!!! using an induction drive!!
    http://ecotechmarine.com/
  18.  
    mtblackdog

    mtblackdog Member

    I have been just using the round flat 6" stones from Petsmart and two of them boil the water in my 48 quart ingloos, plenty of bubbles and action and havent clogged in two grows.
  19.  
    fatman7574

    fatman7574 New Member

    Yes, the magnetically held inductive power heads are nice but still quite expensive. They have only been out a few years so the retailers and manafacturers are still inflating the prices.

    In water treatment plants they commonly use waht is called a propellor aerator. It actually is a plastic propeller over a series of air outlet holes. They keep the water churning much better than just injected air. They obviously could not be used with a DWC or Bubbleponics reservoir with roots.
  20.  
    OregonMeds

    OregonMeds Well-Known Member

    I've always wondered fatman what kind of difference there really is in heat put into the water with a saltwater type external mag drive pump and internal mag drive. Even the external flows water around the back of the impeller and around the inside of the coil from what I can tell, so how much is air cooled in reality?
    Would a pool type pump pass less heat?

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