Bernanke on TV says jobless rate to stay high

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Yes, i think so too.

han, that's just a laugh. You need to read the history of medicare and medicaid. ALL the same promises were made then. Look at them now.

Han, you don't have a SINGLE successful template to prove the Govt. can run a business, let alone be in charge of something as important and personal as our bodies.

Why do you think this is any different. All the warning signs are there. The entire premise is based on the lie that somehow we are in a health care crisis....NONSENSE!!

The country is slowly waking up to this charade. Obama senses it now. His honeymoon is over......thankfully. If it went on much longer our misery would be set in stone.
Quote:
Ok. And I'll just ignore your sweeping disconnected generalizations. :roll:

Asking you where you get ur ideas is a fair question. Too difficult?
Fed Ex revenue: 35.5 billion that provides jobs for about 290,000

Post office: revenue of $74.9 billion that provide jobs for about 800,000 people

So they are able to operate at $93,625 a person vs Fed Ex costs of $122,413 per person. That is about a $30k savings per job. I am all for business profits, but it is very good example of the government running a program that helps the country run. We can now step aside and let private companies run, but if we do that the cost of stamps would increase by approx 30% (54 cents) .

And the post office is getting outdated due to the internet. We should be able to cut them soon when we can figure out how to get those folks trained into new careers. But tossing something in NY for 42 cents and having it show up in 2 to three days at someone elses home is amazing.
 

TreesOfLife

Well-Known Member
Fed Ex revenue: 35.5 billion that provides jobs for about 290,000

Post office: revenue of $74.9 billion that provide jobs for about 800,000 people

So they are able to operate at $93,625 a person vs Fed Ex costs of $122,413 per person. That is about a $30k savings per job. I am all for business profits, but it is very good example of the government running a program that helps the country run. We can now step aside and let private companies run, but if we do that the cost of stamps would increase by approx 30% (54 cents) .

And the post office is getting outdated due to the internet. We should be able to cut them soon when we can figure out how to get those folks trained into new careers. But tossing something in NY for 42 cents and having it show up in 2 to three days at someone elses home is amazing.
Way to pull numbers out of thin air.


http://www.federaltimes.com/index.php?S=3766417

Next step for USPS: Layoffs?
By ELISE CASTELLI
October 11, 2008
Will there be layoffs at the U.S. Postal Service? That’s the buzz among the agency’s 670,000 workers as signs grow that the agency is sliding further into financial trouble.
The Postal Service has already extended early-retirement offers to more than 156,000 postal workers — roughly 20 percent of its work force. And the postmaster general, John Potter, told the largest postal union that the agency has identified as many as 16,000 employees who can be laid off without the need for collective bargaining because they lack seniority.
Last month, nearly 3,700 employees had accepted early retirement offers in the first of three rounds of early-retirement offers.
That represents about 5 percent of the 72,000 mail handlers, clerks, distributions operations supervisors and customer service supervisors who were eligible in the first round that expired Sept. 30. Most experts consider that a good response rate.

But some observers fear the next two rounds of early-retirement offers will not produce similarly good response rates. That’s because the economy is worsening and the offers do not come with financial incentives. In short, it’s a scary time to leave a job.
“It makes little sense to leave a good paying job with benefits to enter the troubled economy unless there is incentive to do so,” said William Burrus, president of the American Postal Workers Union. “Their target is 6 percent and I don’t suspect they will meet that [going forward].”
And that, say experts like Burrus and others, means increased pressure on the Postal Service to consider layoffs for the first time in its history.
Burrus has advised his employees not to take the early out because the Postal Service is not offering an incentive to retire early. He suspects that when the process is complete, less than 3 percent of those offered will take the deal.
For its part, the Postal Service says layoffs will be a last resort as it seeks to trim payroll and cut expenses amid plunging revenues.
The second round of early-retirement offers, which expires Nov. 21, targets 67,000 letter carriers, headquarters staff and motor vehicle and maintenance employees. The third and final round, which expires Jan. 16, is available to 17,000 field management employees and postmasters.
Officials anticipate that between 3 percent and 5 percent of the eligible population will apply for the early outs, said Greg Frey, a Postal Service spokesman.
The early-retirement offers come at a time when the Postal Service is not covering its costs. Mail volume dropped 12 percent in fiscal 2008, causing the Postal Service to spend $2.3 billion more than it made during the year.
“We’re trying to match our work force to what the workload is,” Frey said.
If the Postal Service can’t increase mail volume, it won’t have enough money to pay staff, said postal expert Murray Comarow, who led the commission that was responsible for restructuring the Postal Service in 1971.
“Unless they tell Congress they don’t have the money to pay these guys, they will have to lay people off,” Comarow said. Congress has denied the Postal Service the ability to raise postage rates to cover costs. “I don’t know what else they could do except trying to change various constraints in the law that are more limiting of USPS management than any other company in the private sector,” he said.
Postal workers worry the deepening financial crisis could exacerbate the agency’s problems, which were brought on by rising energy costs, rising paper costs, and a heavier public reliance on the Internet to pay bills and communicate.
A Congressional Research Service report released last week found that Standard Mail — which includes advertising — now accounts for more mail volume than first-class mail. But the lower-cost Standard Mail yields lower revenues; it’s also more vulnerable to downturns in the economy. Some of the largest mailers, like the financial and housing industries, are suffering the most in the ailing economy.
The situation concerns newer Postal Service employees like Wendy Hess, an address management systems specialist in Cincinnati, because she has not been on the job long enough to be protected from layoffs.
With employees unable to afford to retire, “it seems as though layoffs are inevitable,” Hess said. If it comes to that point, Hess said she hopes it will be done strategically so the Postal Service doesn’t experience a brain drain.
“The financial dire straits which are and will continue to affect us necessitate the utilization of all forward-thinking employees, not their dismissal,” she said. Postal workers may find they’re on the front lines battling mail fraud and other crimes that might occur in tough times, she said.
Another postal worker, who asked not to be named said, “If the Postal Service really wants to downsize its work force, then it really needs to consider offering an incentive to retire early.” Without an incentive, most offered early retirement can’t afford to take it in these tough financial times, she said.
Other unions and the Postal Service say workers should not worry about layoffs.
Frey, the Postal Service spokesman, said there are several other measures management would pursue before taking action against career employees. In addition to the early outs, this includes decreasing the hours for part-time career employees and letting go temporary workers, who are not career employees, Frey said.
“There are not going to be any layoffs in the Postal Service,” said William Young, president of the National Association of Letter Carriers. “I’m not concerned about that, and I don’t want my members to get concerned about that.”
However, APWU’s Burrus is skeptical that reducing part-time workers’ hours is a solution. The service has already reduced work by 38 million work hours and still can’t fund itself, he said.
“I don’t want employees to be laid off, but I don’t think they’ll have much choice,” Burrus said.
One solution could be altering the discounts offered to bulk mailers, which are so low they don’t cover the cost of handling the mail, Burrus said.

Gregg Carlstrom contributed to this report.
 

TreesOfLife

Well-Known Member
From today incase the 2008 is too old for your liking...:hump:


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2009/07/postal_service_joins_high_risk.html?hpid=topnews


Postal Service Joins 'High Risk' List




The above chart demonstrates the rapid decline of American mail volume in the past three years (Image courtesy of GAO).
Updated 11:15 a.m. ET
The U.S. Postal Service urgently needs restructuring to meet rapidly declining mail volume and must immediately cut costs, according to a new report by the Government Accountability Office. The Congressional auditing agency today added the nation's mail delivery service to its list of "high risk" federal government agencies and programs that either need a massive overhaul or cost taxpayers billions of dollars in waste, fraud, abuse or mismanagement.
“There are serious and significant structural financial challenges currently facing the Postal Service," acting GAO director Gene L. Dodaro said in a statement.
The mail service has suffered as customers continue to choose e-mail and online bill payment programs over snail mail and as the recession has cut overall business spending. The Postal Service also faces significant infrastructural and personnel costs, including hefty payments to a retiree benefits program, Dodaro noted.
Mail volume is expected to fall by 28 billion pieces this fiscal year, to a total of 175 billion pieces, down from 203 billion pieces in fiscal year 2008, according to GAO. USPS projects a net loss of $7 billion this fiscal year and debts to climb above $10 billion, leading to a cash shortfall of approximately $1 billion. Losses are expected to continue in 2010.
The GAO's classification "accurate reflects our current financial reality," USPS spokeswoman Yvonne Yoerger said in an e-mail. "Securing the fiscal stability of the Postal Service will require continued review of retiree health benefit pre-funding, as well as gaining flexibility within the law to move toward five-day delivery, to adjust our network as needed, to develop new products the market requires and to work with our unions, mailers, stakeholders and Congress to meet the challenges ahead."
Those possible cutbacks and GAO's new classification for USPS will be the focus of a House hearing on Thursday. Postal officials want to trim mail delivery to five days a week and close several of its 38,000 postal processing facilities and post offices nationwide. As part of the cutbacks, USPS has already removed at least 200,000 "underperforming" blue mailboxes from city streets, rural routes and suburban neighborhoods in the last two decades.
GAO endorsed the proposed cutbacks today, stating that USPS must consolidate operations, close unneeded facilities and consider layoffs. The Postal Service will be removed from the list only once it addresses its structural challenges, according to GAO.
The "high risk" list is a biennial accounting of agencies and programs costing taxpayers billions of dollars annually due to waste, fraud, abuse and mismanagement. In most cases, GAO recommends the executive branch take corrective action or that Congress pass legislation to fix the problems.
The 2009 list released in January already includes 30 agencies or programs of concern, including the FDA's oversight of medical products, the nation's outdated financial regulatory system, the 2010 Census and the Defense Department's procurement process.
Today's decision marks a return for the Postal Service to the high-risk list. GAO removed USPS from the list earlier this decade after auditors concluded it had addressed financial and personnel issues.
By washingtonpost.com Editors | July 28, 2009; 10:04 AM ET
 

TreesOfLife

Well-Known Member
http://www.newschannel34.com/news/local/story/Daybreak-Update-7-6-2009/nC504fIu6UOemyVRpM9MXA.cspx



Daybreak Update 7/6/2009


Last Update: 7/06 9:21 am
Print Story | Share this Story


Daybreak Update 7/6/2009

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People are spending less money in this economy. The last thing businesses need is for the state to whack them with high taxes, fees, and make it tough to operate. But, that is what some businesses in Greene say has been happening to them. Getting the ears of some legislators could help change some of that. Enzo Olivieri opened up Nathaneal Greene's Publick House family restaurant and bar three years ago. These were the beginning stages of transforming the area into the eatery. Enzo's making it work. But, the state could make things easier. Enzo Olivieri says, "What would help us out is the representatives in the state house understanding what is really going on on Main Street here, both economically, financially. You know there are a lot of costs and added costs that are coming down the pipeline." Reigning in workers comp and other costs would help. As would giving more incentives like PA does. And, Enzo is hoping for natural gas drilling to take off for an influx of cash to the area. Crouch says, "We're trying to take away some of the barriers of operating in New York State and what we're finding often times is businesses are finding it more and more difficult to operate here in New York State. We're heading the wrong way right now." Republican Assemblyman Cliff Crouch and members on the minority small business task force went out to Greene to talk with some business owners to find out what they're up against. They say the state needs to stop treating businesses like they're cash cows. In some cases it's harder than ever to make money, especially if it takes 6 to 8 months to get a liquor license. Or, one business actually got fined for filing a state application 3 days EARLY. Enzo's idea on the one thing the state could do to help his business the most. Enzo says, "Incentives for companies to come into the state. Right now they're not too friendly with taxes. If we can attract new businesses to come into the state, people would come and buy homes and spend money in local shops." Now Crouch and the others will try to get other legislators on board to help the businesses.

U-S Senator Chuck Schumer is on board with local post office workers who are against a consolidation move. The U-S-P-S is having major financial problems and is looking at possibly doing away with mail sorting in Binghamton and moving that Syracuse.
Local postal workers say the move doesn't make sense and it will take longer to get your mail. Schumer is asking the USPS to reconsider the move, something it has done in the past.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I will read your posts after this. I pulled those numbers off of financial websites.

Yes I know the Post office is in the red. Most non profit companies do run in the red. I was pointing out how much more they get done on how much less money. I added in the price they were in the red to the number (2.8b). The facts are what I had posted.

Is the post office a company that should close, yes didn't I say that it should be on the way out? That we need to find a way to get the people working there retrained?

But of course you ignore that, and just jump on me. I factored it in and was just showing a fact:

The government program operates at 30% less cost per person than fed ex. Oh and btw:

NEW YORK — FedEx Corp. on Thursday announced more broad cost cuts _ including salary reductions _ as deteriorating economic conditions continue to drag down demand, warning the outlook for 2009 remains murky.
So anyway why not read and try to understand instead of just ignoring the point, picking out a angle and attacking it totally devoid of what the post was saying.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
oh and ps the post office goes to every almost single house in america 6 days a week on that 30% less cost per person. A good way to fix it would be to cut it down to 3 or 4 days a week. But that would costs the people working there a lot of money.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Fed Ex revenue: 35.5 billion that provides jobs for about 290,000
Post office: revenue of $74.9 billion that provide jobs for about 800,000 people
I've already been here with the Post Office, they are losing money, but due to their monopolized position if they fail (like they are doing) the government will just bail them out.

Not an example of a successful company at all.

I believe that my reading of their annual reports revealed losses of $3.8 Billion for 2001 - 2008.

That's not successfully ran, hannimal.

So they are able to operate at $93,625 a person vs Fed Ex costs of $122,413 per person. That is about a $30k savings per job. I am all for business profits, but it is very good example of the government running a program that helps the country run. We can now step aside and let private companies run, but if we do that the cost of stamps would increase by approx 30% (54 cents) .
Ignoring the fact that Federal Express is prohibited from competing with the Post Office when it comes do delivering mail.

And the post office is getting outdated due to the internet. We should be able to cut them soon when we can figure out how to get those folks trained into new careers. But tossing something in NY for 42 cents and having it show up in 2 to three days at someone elses home is amazing.
Even more amazing is getting it there the next day, which is where UPS and FedEx came in. If the USPS hadn't faced competition from UPS and FedEx it wouldn't have been motivated to become more efficient. It certainly hasn't been able to control costs, as can be witnessed by its staggering losses.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Let's not forget that Medicare/caid PLUS SS all need to be "saved" very very soon. That's ANOTHER bailout by the way. It is a portend of things to come if the Govt. destroys the private health care world. Of course since the control will be greater, so too shall be the damage done.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Are you trying not to get what I am saying? I am talking about the 30% difference of cost per person with the loses figured in. And they can get it the next day it just costs more.

I would like to again point out to the 30% difference per person that the post office is able to operate on.

And still get to almost every home 6 days a week. That is very efficient. If the post office operated raised stamp price to 54 cents a stamp and kept the same customer base (wouldn't happen of course) it would have meant they had earned over $97B meaning that 3.8b (thank you forthe correction) would not be an issue.

The Post office operates better (ungodly more homes and business it hits every day) for much less cost per person. Even if you put in the money they get from the government.



AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD STICK AROUND>>>> We don't need it anymore. Let people learn how to use the e-mail and computer network to pay their bills. If they need a shipment they can go into the free market and use a delivery company. But we cannot do that w/o getting those people losing their jobs new careers though.

Anyway this is falling on deaf ears as you refuse to see that the post office runs on far less money and does far more than Fed Ex.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Let's not forget that Medicare/caid PLUS SS all need to be "saved" very very soon. That's ANOTHER bailout by the way. It is a portend of things to come if the Govt. destroys the private health care world. Of course since the control will be greater, so too shall be the damage done.
Why do things need to be permanent? Businesses and industries fail over time. The same should be said about government programs that become outdated.

I do love that you cannot see the good that programs have done, and instead call something a failure because it is outdated and ready to prune.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Are you trying not to get what I am saying? I am talking about the 30% difference of cost per person with the loses figured in. And they can get it the next day it just costs more.

I would like to again point out to the 30% difference per person that the post office is able to operate on.

And still get to almost every home 6 days a week. That is very efficient. If the post office operated raised stamp price to 54 cents a stamp and kept the same customer base (wouldn't happen of course) it would have meant they had earned over $97B meaning that 3.8b (thank you forthe correction) would not be an issue.

The Post office operates better (ungodly more homes and business it hits every day) for much less cost per person. Even if you put in the money they get from the government.



AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD STICK AROUND>>>> We don't need it anymore. Let people learn how to use the e-mail and computer network to pay their bills. If they need a shipment they can go into the free market and use a delivery company. But we cannot do that w/o getting those people losing their jobs new careers though.

Anyway this is falling on deaf ears as you refuse to see that the post office runs on far less money and does far more than Fed Ex.
Far less than FedEx, FedEx and UPS are key players when it comes to commercial aviation.

Lots of additional jobs depend on their continuing to be in business.

If the USPS was abolished, or stripped of its monopoly the free market would provide the same services (probably more efficiently.)

Lysander Spooner proved that the USPS is not as efficient as you pretend it is.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Far less than FedEx, FedEx and UPS are key players when it comes to commercial aviation.

Lots of additional jobs depend on their continuing to be in business.

If the USPS was abolished, or stripped of its monopoly the free market would provide the same services (probably more efficiently.)
Lysander Spooner proved that the USPS is not as efficient as you pretend it is.
January 19, 1808 – May 14, 1887

Ok so did he have a crystal ball? What does someone who died over a hundred years ago have to do with this? I don't think he did a cost analysis on fed ex or ups.

And you love the underlying insults. "That I pretend it is". Too funny. I am putting out actual numbers and explaining them. In an effort to talk about minimum wage and your crew decided to turn it into a 'name one' thread, that I had answered. And not even looking at the data I am providing, but immediately jumping on what others have said about the post office.

Is it monopolistic? Sure.

Did I not say that it should be disbanded? Yes.

What exactly are you adding to this besides trying to move the topic into another area?
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
I thought this was pretty good article:
Minimum Wage, Maximum Stupidity

By Peter Schiff

In a free market, demand is always a function of price: the higher the price, the lower the demand. What may surprise most politicians is that these rules apply equally to both prices and wages. When employers evaluate their labor and capital needs, cost is a primary factor. When the cost of hiring low-skilled workers moves higher, jobs are lost. Despite this, minimum wage hikes, like the one set to take effect later this month, are always seen as an act of governmental benevolence. Nothing could be further from the truth.

When confronted with a clogged drain, most of us will call several plumbers and hire the one who quotes us the lowest price. If all the quotes are too high, most of us will grab some Drano and a wrench, and have at it. Labor markets work the same way. Before bringing on another worker, an employer must be convinced that the added productivity will exceed the added cost (this includes not just wages, but all payroll taxes and other benefits.) So if an unskilled worker is capable of delivering only $6 per hour of increased productivity, such an individual is legally unemployable with a minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.

Low-skilled workers must compete for employers’ dollars with both skilled workers and capital. For example, if a skilled worker can do a job for $14 per hour that two unskilled workers can do for $6.50 per hour each, then it makes economic sense for the employer to go with the unskilled labor. Increase the minimum wage to $7.25 per hour and the unskilled workers are priced out of their jobs. This dynamic is precisely why labor unions are such big supporters of minimum wage laws. Even though none of their members earn the minimum wage, the law helps protect their members from having to compete with lower-skilled workers.

Employers also have the choice of whether to employ people or machines. For example, an employer can hire a receptionist or invest in an automated answering system. The next time you are screaming obscenities into the phone as you try to have a conversation with a computer, you know what to blame for your frustration.

There are numerous other examples of employers substituting capital for labor simply because the minimum wage has made low-skilled workers uncompetitive. For example, handcarts have replaced skycaps at airports. The main reason fast-food restaurants use paper plates and plastic utensils is to avoid having to hire dishwashers.

As a result, many low-skilled jobs that used to be the first rung on the employment ladder have been priced out of the market. Can you remember the last time an usher showed you to your seat in a dark movie theater? When was the last time someone other than the cashier not only bagged your groceries, but also loaded them into your car? By the way, it won’t be long before the cashiers themselves are priced out of the market, replaced by automated scanners, leaving you to bag your purchases with no help whatsoever.

The disappearance of these jobs has broader economic and societal consequences. First jobs are a means to improve skills so that low skilled workers can offer greater productivity to current or future employers. As their skills grow, so does their ability to earn higher wages. However, remove the bottom rung from the employment ladder and many never have a chance to climb it.

So the next time you are pumping your own gas in the rain, do not just think about the teenager who could have been pumping it for you, think about the auto mechanic he could have become – had the minimum wage not denied him a job. Many auto mechanics used to learn their trade while working as pump jockeys. Between fill-ups, checking tire pressure, and washing windows, they would spend a lot of time helping – and learning from – the mechanics.

Because the minimum wage prevents so many young people (including a disproportionate number of minorities) from getting entry-level jobs, they never develop the skills necessary to command higher paying jobs. As a result, many turn to crime, while others subsist on government aid. Supporters of the minimum wage argue that it is impossible to support a family on the minimum wage. While that is true, it is completely irrelevant, as minimum wage jobs are not designed to support families. In fact, many people earning the minimum wage are themselves supported by their parents.

The way it is supposed to work is that people do not choose to start families until they can earn enough to support them. Lower wage jobs enable workers to eventually acquire the skills necessary to earn wages high enough to support a family. Does anyone really think a kid with a paper route should earn a wage high enough to support a family?

The only way to increase wages is to increase worker productivity. If wages could be raised simply by government mandate, we could set the minimum wage at $100 per hour and solve all problems. It should be clear that, at that level, most of the population would lose their jobs, and the remaining labor would be so expensive that prices for goods and services would skyrocket. That’s the exact burden the minimum wage places on our poor and low-skilled workers, and ultimately every American consumer.

Since our leaders cannot even grasp this simple economic concept, how can we expect them to deal with the more complicated problems that currently confront us?
 

TreesOfLife

Well-Known Member
Yes, i think so too.

han, that's just a laugh. You need to read the history of medicare and medicaid. ALL the same promises were made then. Look at them now.

Han, you don't have a SINGLE successful template to prove the Govt. can run a business, let alone be in charge of something as important and personal as our bodies.

Why do you think this is any different. All the warning signs are there. The entire premise is based on the lie that somehow we are in a health care crisis....NONSENSE!!

The country is slowly waking up to this charade. Obama senses it now. His honeymoon is over......thankfully. If it went on much longer our misery would be set in stone.
Jax I think him and many others just want the eugenics.:hump:
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Hom36rown.

That is a very good argument. It is the truth too. But what it doesnt explain is that when the 'minimum wage' gets pushed up it is below the equilibrium.

If they raised it to $11 an hour now it would be a huge issue. Where they raised it to is below the actual minimum and is just used to point to "hey look I care we raised the min. wage". It really does not change anything.

The economy did not suffer when they raised it from what ever it was to $5.25 an hour because the market already had moved it up to about $5.50 or $6 an hour.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
Well what about in California where the minimum wage is $8.00? And if it doesn't actually help with anything than whats the point?
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Well what about in California where the minimum wage is $8.00? And if it doesn't actually help with anything than whats the point?
To just make it look like they are doing something. It is politics. The new Minimum wage is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009. Less than what people get paid. I am sure that in cali the price of everything is higher so it is a wash.

All just posturing by the talking heads.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
The function of Govt. is to protect the citizens and negotiate foreign trade to encourage business and growth at home, and that's about it.

The Govt. isn't supposed to BE the business..
 
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