B.H.O is in the House!!

gladstoned · Jun 7, 2012

TheChosen said:
And for a first time oil maker, I think spending 2gs on a rig for spraying is overkill. Get experience with a glass extractor or sstb and then move up. Most non oil makers would probably have a difficult time even getting the oil out of the honey pot where it collects, let alone completing a successful extraction.

The reason I would spend $2000 is because of safety. I want to be 100% positive that my patients are smoking the most healthy oil possible. I need to get my rooms together and do some homework. The way I operate, I will research this shit and then work on getting up the $2000 or not fuck with butane.

abe supercro · Jun 8, 2012

it is affordable to tinker w this at a low cost. 2 yrs later now, I'll work on round two so I can feed my omichron fresh oil because their is no way I'll buy that shit for 60 a gram. I'm still not psyched enough about BHO to buy the expensive extractor. RSO seems easy enough, but what do I do with it when I'm done? not sure if I could benefit from RSO, or even like it. maybe donate it to a compassion club or someone in need.

pharmacoping · Jun 8, 2012

gladstoned said:
The reason I would spend $2000 is because of safety. I want to be 100% positive that my patients are smoking the most healthy oil possible. I need to get my rooms together and do some homework. The way I operate, I will research this shit and then work on getting up the $2000 or not fuck with butane.

Right on man !! good to hear of a MI right minded soul. YOu will not be dissappointed with the tami, or want for anything else, I promise. when you get it drop me a line, I'll save you money and time.
A couple few plants pay for the device. I would have bought mine at 75 a g, if I could have verified the product going in, and lab test results of the extract coming out. was impossible without doing it myself, from seed to vape

gladstoned · Jun 8, 2012

I haven't ordered anything yet. ...but there is a pretty damn good chance.

One thing that bothers me about the UP is the vast majority of half-assed do-it-yourself. Give me a 30-pack of busch and some duct tape mentality. Often that is all that is needed, I try to keep that thought process out of my garden though. It is sometimes tempting, but a large part of having a $2000 unit is letting the patient know that I am not here to fuck around.
The message I got from this thread and a few others is that BHO is fantastic medicine, and make sure it is done right for safety in making and safety in the actual product itself.

gladstoned · Jun 8, 2012

Well drywall is hung on one wall so far. If the majority of people on this site weren't in pain themselves I would take a few more paragraphs and cry about it. lol.

Anyway, it isn't like money isn't an object. It's just that safety is an object. Health isn't only a part of it, health is key. I could get shit rollin right now cheaply, but I will wait and do it right the first time. This isn't a hobby of mine, this is what I do. And another thing is that future patients are watching. I put my shit out there so that when I start a thread saying that I have an opening for a patient I have ten people saying, let's do this. Many of my patients will become caregivers, some of them are fully capable of doing this. I never want a single person to wonder if I take my shit seriously. From my understanding buying the better unit allows for better butane and by not wasting butane it will pay for itself. That makes business-sense. And if a zip has a value of $250 and the machine is $2000 one single lonely jar is 12.5% of the price of the unit. You must put the numbers into perspective.

What I am saying is factor in the price of meds, factor in the price of butane, factor in health, factor in safety, factor in piece of mind for me and any patient. If that isn't worth it, having the best and being able to talk shit is always a nice bonus.

cephalopod · Jun 8, 2012

Our main project and the one closest to completion is our volatile gas (butane) essential oil extraction apparatus. This project started when we realized how expensive large quantities of butane are and how environmentally damaging it is to volatilize that butane into the atmosphere. We began to think of a passive recovery device that anyone could DIY with a little help from a local machine shop.
While that was in the brainstorming phase we learned of a DIY active recovery unit designed and built by FOAF, that made use of a refrigerant recovery pump.
Alas, our first pump had a misclocked valve operator from the factory, and though oil less, some how butane still got to the bearings and washed out some oil into the extract.
We discovered the oil in the essential oil extract using a black light, and by the time we figured why the recovery was so ghastly slow, the seals were toast from running dry.
We were back on the hunt for an oil-less refrigerant recovery pump that was suitable for R-600 (Butane). We found a large scale compressor that is used for liquid to liquid extraction of propane from train cars; which would not be suitable for our needs.
From a fellow researcher who had similar problems with pumps, we learned of the Appion unit that ultimately proved successful. He had about 80 hours on his unit at that point without issue.
After choking a few days over the cost, we purchased the same G-5 model Appion, and we have put a several hundred testing hours on it, with one upper end rebuild. Primarily caused by running the pump under hard vacuum too much of the cycle.
After increasing our systems bottom heat and adding column heat in the final recovery, we have noted little loss of performance on the new rebuild.
We were also able to cut the process time in about half, by having our collection pot sitting in boiling water, while we kept our butane recovery and storage vessel in an ice bath.
Presently the test sled is running ten flood and soak cycles over a 30 minute period, using about 10 column volumes of butane, with full recovery in about 15 minutes. The unit has extracted in excess of 25% essential oil extract Absolute by weight, and averages in excess of 20%. A full cycle has a sample floor to floor time of 45 minutes.
With the 24″ column in place, it holds about 240 grams of material, which provides an average production rate of about 80 grams per hour plus raw essential oil extract.
During testing, we noted how boring it was to watch a vacuum gauge and proved that with every new step in a manual process, there is an exponential increase for human error, so our next all stainless steel unit will use explosion proof automatic valves and microprocessor controls. Our new unit will be simple to use even for the most non technical user; load the column, push start and then clean out the collection container and column.
As we have no desire to build more than prototype test sleds ourselves, we sent the conceptual CAD prints out for competitive bid by CNC water jet cutting and machining vendors, as well as an aerospace pressure vessel shop, with ASTME certifications.
Alas, we discovered that with negotiating as an OEM, we can buy the ASTME pressure vessel lower end, cheaper than we can have one made, and even buy columns off the shelf at retail for less than we can have them made using local resources.
As our survival as a company, is more important to us than supporting the local economy in the style to which they have become accustomed, we will modify our designs to reflect that and then start posting the DIY details.
Now that the pressure vessel is a buy out, there is nothing else that isn’t buildable in a garage workshop, equipped with a drill press and TIG welder.
We have taken a deposit from the vender whom has our original test sled leased out, for a fully automated unit, and have ordered the pressure vessel and identified explosion proof automatic Asco valves that will work, but are still reviewing alternatives before placing that order.
The controls is the open question at this point. Our original plan was a PLC micro processor, but after looking at the price for an industrial unit, we are reviewing using simple timers and pressure switches with solid state relays to accomplish the same thing, using a hobbyist microprocessor, or building our own dedicated solid state electronics at about 25% the cost of a PLC with software.
Our mostly retired electronics genius, is pondering the issue on his current vacation in warmer climes, and will begin looking at it seriously on his return. If we end up building our own, we will post an electronics design as well.
We are building this first G-2 prototype ourselves, and I will take pictures as we progress, starting with the modifications of the pressure pot when it arrives.
The unit is designed, so that it can also be fitted with manual valves, and forgo the automation. The current manual test sled works extremely well, so the only advantage to automation, is less stand by labor, and more precise timing of process steps.
We will of course also be trying to beat old process records, whose records continue to improve, and to make loading easier and faster.
Here is a schematic of how the system operates, as well as a picture of the test sled after shakedown.
Follow us to stay up on our latest development’s.

collection vessel

The Terpenator Essential Oil Extractor

Hi ya’ll!

I picked up a 2 1/2 gallon Bink’s stainless ASTME paint pot, rated at 120 psi and am excited to try out some 1 1/2″ X 24″ stainless tri-clamp columns that I discovered atwww.glaciertank.com.
Our target operating pressure is -29.9″ Hg vacuum, to +60 psi and according to Glacier, the sanitary pipe spools are capable of several times that pressure. If it works out in field beta testing, I will adapt the Mk I test sled, to the new column, so the lessee has a common column.
The paint pot has a central opening for an agitator, which had a plug with an o-ring seal filling the hole, on my cheaper non agitated model. I dropped that plug off at a machine shop yesterday, along with the loading port lid, for modifications, which will allow me to more or less just screw the whole thing together out of available parts from this point on.
I’ll share pictures of those, after I pick them up, but here are some pictures of what we have so far:

3-3-12
Progress is being made. I developed the process logic and then met with Bob, to discuss controls. My logic assumes three pressure switches and three timers, but we looked at using a single pressure transducer, with a 4 to 20 miliamp output, in concert with three voltage comparitors, but just the transducer was $540, as opposed to $38 each for the double pole adjustable pressure switches.
For timers, we found some premade count down timers which we will modify, and we will have two LCD timer readouts. One adjustable total process timer, 5 minute hard vacuum purge soak time, and one 20 second flood timer.
I also dropped by Paramount Plumbing Supply and looked at the ball valves with operators, which I will need to automate this unit. For both size, cost, and explosion proof qualities, I have elected to go with pneumatics, and the operators are still so big and heavy that I will have to build a metal frame to support them. Hopefully I have enough structural aluminum in my haunted garage to do so without adding much weight.
Here is the logic sheet.

Butane Recycle System Logic

NO	DEVICES	CYCLES
0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
	Event driver	1.0	1.1	1.11	1.15	*2/3LOOP	1.14	1.12	1.11	1.16
1.0	Turn on power	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X
1.1	Momentary start button	O	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	O
1.2	Vacuum pump valve NC	O	X	O	O		O	X	O	O
1.3	Ref. recovery valve NC	O	X	X	X		X	O	O	O
1.4	Lower isolation valve NC	O	X	O	O		X	X	X	O
1.5	Upper vent valve NC	O	X	X	O		X	X	X	O
1.6	Butane control valve NC	O	O	X	O		O	O	O	O
1.7	Vacuum pump on/off	O	X	O	O		O	X	O	O
1.8	Ref pump on/off	O	O	X	X		X	O	O	O
1.9	Hot water pot on/off	X	X	X	X		X	X	X	X
1.10	Column heat on/off	O	O	O	O		X	X	X	O
1.11	Vacuum switch -29.2Hg	O	X	O	O		O	X	O	O
1.12	Vacuum switch -22″ Hg	O	O	O	O		X	O	O	O
1.13	Vacuum switch -10″ Hg	O	O	X	X		O	O	O	O
1.14	15 minute timer	O	X	X	X	X	O	O	O	O
1.15	20 second flood timer	O	O	X	O		O	O	O	O
1.16	5 minute timer	O	O	O	O	O	O	O	X	O

*Once in the 2/3 loop, 1.13 becomes the driver, instead of 1.11, as on the first cycle.
To initiate, turn on power and push momentary start button.
X in a column is ON
O in a column is Off
X in a column is the event that ends the cycle and initiates the next.
3-11-2012
More progress! The lessee who is operating my pumped test sled, and who ordered a full blown automated system, has continued to refine the process and has not only bumped the record yield to over 25% Absolute, but has determined that four flood cycles are all that is required.
She now has the total floor to floor cycle time down to about 28 minutes. That processes about 480 grams of material an hour, for a yield of around 120 grams of BHO Absolute. That would compare to around 130 grams of raw BHO oleoresin, before winterization.
She also no longer tries to recover 100% of the butane, but instead stops the recovery when the recovery vessel reaches -22 mm/hg, and turns on the hard vacuum pump to pump 29.9 mm/hg, which pumps off about 57 cu/in/.00095m3 of gaseous butane to atmosphere per cycle, or about $0.076 worth.
Electrical costs are about 3.3 KW per hour, at $0.09, or $0.045 per cycle.
Total operating cost, less labor and periodic pump maintenance, is $0.18/hr, or about $0.0015 gram.
We have noticed that our recycled butane is starting to pick up water, so I will add a dryer. Fortuitously, I was able to pick up a R-12 Robaire refrigerant recovery and recycle system off E-Bay cheeep, and will rob the filtration and dryer system off of it.
That includes a circulation pump, a dryer, and a water detector, which can be circulating the butane in the recovery tank through the dryer and returning it, while we are doing other things. It has been used to recover automotive refrigerant, so I will completely rebuild it and replace the hoses and dryer element to avoid cross contamination.

UPDATES ON PROGRESS

Well, progress is going slower than planned, with illness rearing its ugly head amongst usn’s cadre of graying, hoary moss covered retired machinists.

Here is the only two pieces in the basic system, that require machining or welding, and you can see how easy they are to make. They still need to be cleaned and polished, but the attached pictures show what they look like immediately after fabrication.
The center plug in the pressure pot lid was bored for an easy slip fit on a 3/4″ 1.050″ OD Schedule 40 316SS pipe, with 10.5″ sticking out the bottom of the plug and 3.5″ sticking out the top. This is where the valves and column attach.
The paint port lid was also modified by cutting off the wrench boss and boring for the same 3/4″ pipe. This will be for the control valves and pressure switches.
We decided on pneumatic operators on full port stainless ball valves. All are air to open or close, except the butane supply valve, which is a normally closed, spring return valve for safety.
The three and four way Asco solenoid valves for the air, will allow us to separate the electrical functions from the extraction area, for explosion proof protection.
Here is a picture of the valves that I’ve ordered and the prices. Keep in mind that manual valves can be used at significantly less cost.

4-11-12
Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The pneumatic operated valves valves arrived and I installed them. Here is the Mk II assembled and ready to roll.
The electronics are scheduled for smoke test this week end, so we are close to beta testing.

Here is a list of additional parts:

Progress on controls!

For ya’ll that have been waiting with baity breath for what our resident electronics genius came up with, Bob picked a Panasonic FP -X C30-TD PLC (~$300) for the task.
Because of some of the loads involved, Bob also built a relay panel, using an existing standard PSI elevator PC board, and a cycle timer display built from a count down timer kit. The heavier 2 hp and 1/2 hp motor loads, as well as the 1200 watt soup pot loads will be controlled using Crydom solid state relays.
Here are some pictures of it being smoke tested before installing it in the 12″ X 12″ Hoffman enclosure.

Starting to get some good input from other forums as well. Here is one that brother Luc posed, followed by Banana buds:

Originally Posted by banana buds hey gray, noticed y’alls picked up a PLC. some fine machines, but you might want to consider looking into something even easier and cleaner to build with – arduino boards. they are extremely easy to deal with, and should be plenty of muscle for your application.that would definitely help cut costs, as the boards themselves are around $30, and there is a ton of auxiliary hardware available to mate directly up to them for various functions. i would imagine that for what you would spend on all the control hardware using an arduino as the heart, you’d probably spend less than what just the PLC costs. and out of curiosity, why solid state relays? nothing like the satisfying clack of a 40 amp contactorif you want more information i’d be happy to help, although i don’t have PM abilities yet so it will have to just be in here on your thread i suppose.

We always appreciate input and in response, our ancient (older than me) resident electronics genius is more familiar with industrial PLC’s and picked one that he previously used to control elevators and has confidence in.
Before retirement, my resident EEPE automation genius preferred Fanuc and Modicon, but if I was starting from scratch building a home unit, I would look long and hard at the Arduino, because of cost and recommend that others do so as well.
I picked Crydom solid state relays because of their low latching current, high inrush tolerance, and because they are robust and reliable enough that the elevator industry replaced their higher maintenance mechanical contactors with them.
I am also over designed, by using 25 amp relays for no more than a 10 amp motor circuit. I have fallen in love with them over the years. I usually grab them, when I see them surplus, and note that Wacky Willies military surplus is a good source.
They are available at least to 125 amps, but they may make them larger. The largest I have in my electrical treasure (valuable junk) drawer is 40 amp.
Both issues good inputs! I appreciate all interest and input both here and on the forums that I post on. I am also available via my private [email protected] e-mail address.

Progress!

Bob finished mounting and smoke testing the controls! Aren’t they purdy!

Alas, they most certainly are not going to fit into the 12″ X 12″ Hoffman enclosure that I provided him, so Moan day I will be out shopping for a kit enclosure. Total cost for control parts to this point is about $600.
The long pole in the tent is the pressure switches, which were made to order by Wasco, and are due in a couple weeks, and add another $153.
Here are the part numbers. One was ordered preset at -19hg, one at -22hg, and the third at -29.5hg.

gladstoned · Jun 8, 2012

I scrolled through that. That looks way beyond me. I saw circuit boards and all kinds of shit. lol.

cephalopod · Jun 8, 2012

Yeah that one is highly automated, but the principle is laid out for ya. Not an easy DIY to do safe/cost effectively from sourcing materials on up. I've been following this build for a while and I think GW lays out a sound design.

pharmacoping · Jun 8, 2012

but the cost........? not to mention the sparky electricity used. but I love the concept

st0wandgrow · Jun 8, 2012

Question for the BHO experts .... How does a *good* batch of bho compare with a good batch of ice water bubble hash?

I may be over simplifying things here, but isn't the goal of both bho and bubble hash to extract the trichome heads from the plant matter? Is the bho more medicinal? Is it stronger? Basically, what reasons could you give me to opt for messing around with flamable solvents and/or drop 2k on a device to extract trichome heads over making a simple batch of bubble hash?

WaxxyNuggets · Jun 8, 2012

st0wandgrow said:
Question for the BHO experts .... How does a *good* batch of bho compare with a good batch of ice water bubble hash?

I may be over simplifying things here, but isn't the goal of both bho and bubble hash to extract the trichome heads from the plant matter? Is the bho more medicinal? Is it stronger? Basically, what reasons could you give me to opt for messing around with flamable solvents and/or drop 2k on a device to extract trichome heads over making a simple batch of bubble hash?

If your looking for an alternative to bho with the same potency, check out matt rize's bubble hash tech if you havent already, pretty sure he gets his stuff tested, and id put money on it being higher than my bho...

gladstoned · Jun 8, 2012

WaxxyNuggets said:
If your looking for an alternative to bho with the same potency, check out matt rize's bubble hash tech if you havent already, pretty sure he gets his stuff tested, and id put money on it being higher than my bho...

This would surprise the shit out of me.

WaxxyNuggets · Jun 8, 2012

I thought he was getting low to high 60's, I'm a backyard blower man, can't consider myself top notch... What are usual numbers on BHO in cali? i thought 70, with 90 being like close to impossible? I continue to blow... so i honestly dont know, but without a vac purge i wouldnt suggest making bho to anyone who hasn't done it a time or two.

EDIT:
I guess saying something with similar potency would have been the correct choice of words :bigjoint:

st0wandgrow · Jun 8, 2012

Glad, didn't you post a link to a lab here in Michigan one time that laid out test results for all kinds of shit?. I remember seeing hash results, and bho rsults but was focusing more on the flowers at the time.

Do you still have that labs website? I'd like to see some random results from MI peeps making bho and bubble hash for a comparison.

ballin174 · Jun 8, 2012

st0wandgrow said:
Glad, didn't you post a link to a lab here in Michigan one time that laid out test results for all kinds of shit?. I remember seeing hash results, and bho rsults but was focusing more on the flowers at the time.

Do you still have that labs website? I'd like to see some random results from MI peeps making bho and bubble hash for a comparison.

http://www.herbalelementsinc.com/products.php

st0wandgrow · Jun 8, 2012

OK, so based upon ballins lab link, it looks like the bubble has comes in between 50%-60% and the oil is coming in around 70% +/- a few points.

This brings another question ...... what accounts for the variation? Is it that the bubble has has a little more plant matter in it, thus the slightly lower percentage, and if that is the case, couldn't you just smoke a tad more bubble to achieve the same results?

Am I missing something here? Is there a chemical reaction that takes place while extracting bho that improves the medicinal quality of the end product, or is it simply just another extraction method like making bubble?

I'm trying to justify risking my life, or dropping 2k here to make this stuff ....

cephalopod · Jun 8, 2012

Stow try half a gram and get back with us.

st0wandgrow · Jun 8, 2012

cephalopod said:
Stow try half a gram and get back with us.

I will ceph. I'm definitely curious. Just wondering *why* it's better than hash.

I'll ask again .... is it just a different means of extracting the same thing, or is there something else I'm missing?

dbkick · Jun 8, 2012

I USED to love bubble, and before that I USED to love straight up bud. Now I'm a waxhead . nothing will do but the wax.

pharmacoping · Jun 8, 2012

trichome heads are plant material, and have a weight, which lowers the thc/weight ratio. trichome heads do not get you high, but do add material weight. for most, the high is great both way, but here is the kicker.....WAX is nasty, and so is chlorophyl, both of which are water soluble(ice water extraction). Butane pulls very little of the wax, and zero chlorophyl. is better, and should only be made and used by the blessed

B.H.O is in the House!!

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