At my wits end

Hey guys, I've got a very frustrating problem, and I'm having no luck whatsoever solving this on my own. My plants are riddled with dark brown and necrotic spots....On my biggest plants the bottom two fan leaves not only have the brown/dead patches, they've turned almost uniformily yellow. On my other plants I've just noticed the brown patches.

Now originally, I believed this to be either a potassium or magnesium deficiency. However extra supplements of either nutrient haven't seemed to have made any difference, (I went according to what it said on the bottles to overcome defieciencies, I didn't go nuts and dump a buch in I do know a thing or two about nute lockup). Now here it is about five weeks into my growing effort and I've still got these brown patches.

Soil Ph tests close to neutral, perhaps ever so slightly acidic. I am using the Earthjuice line of nutrients, (Grow, Microblast, Meta-K) and MagiCal (Which helps supplement Iron, Magnesium and Calcium)....

I cannot seem to solve this problem. Can anyone help me? Thanks so much.


I'll post pics later.

hmm i donno i dont know much without some pictures but if it isnt any deficencies that you can think of maybe mites. or some pest of some sort?

matthew1988 said:

hmm i donno i dont know much without some pictures but if it isnt any deficencies that you can think of maybe mites. or some pest of some sort?

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Seen a few gnats flying around, nothing major though....heres some pics, one showing the yellowed leaves on my biggest plant, and the other showing some of the dead spots plaguing the others.

If you have fungus gnats flying around your room you have eggs and larvae living in your medium. Depending on how bad they are...they could be a part of your problem. Those fuckers live by feasting on your plants ROOTS...and they are voracious and like to breed.

You need to find Gnatrol or some mosquito dunks...the things they float in ponds to kill skeeters. This stuff has baciillus isrealisis in it..a microorganism that the critters will feed on..and then will DIE.

This is your best bet to get rid of em. Float a few doughnuts in a 5 gal bucket..taske 1/2 of the water off everytime you water and use that to drench your plants with...making sure that ALL of the surface of the dirt gets wet....

do it for 3 weeks and they should be gone. Sticky Whitefly traps will help catch the adults flying around...

I have had these fuckers many times...and this treatment is the easiest/most effective I've tried. I'm gonna keep a mosquito dunk in my water bucket from here on out...just to be sure. EVERYTIME you bring in soil or a new houseplant from Wally's...etc. these fuckers are in the dirt!

good luck

bt dt

ThePretender1982 said:

I cannot seem to solve this problem. Can anyone help me? Thanks so much.

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Without pics it's impossible to say what's wrong and it's all guesswork, but it does sound a lot like Magnesium deficiency to me. Deficiencies change according to the severity of them and from the sounds of it yours sounds like it may be in advanced stages. You need to remember that whatever you do to your plants will take around 6/7 days to show on the plants - don't expect immediate results. Also on badly affected and damaged leaves they aren't going to miraculously recover overnight - you won't repair damaged leaves, all you can do is slow and stop the deficiency spreading to other parts of the plant.

It could be lots of things, without pictures it's impossible to say but it does sound a lot like Mg def.

beenthere donethat said:

If you have fungus gnats flying around your room you have eggs and larvae living in your medium. Depending on how bad they are...they could be a part of your problem. Those fuckers live by feasting on your plants ROOTS...and they are voracious and like to breed.

You need to find Gnatrol or some mosquito dunks...the things they float in ponds to kill skeeters. This stuff has baciillus isrealisis in it..a microorganism that the critters will feed on..and then will DIE.

This is your best betto get rid of em. Float a few doughnuts in a 5 gal bucket..taske 1/2 of the water off everytime you water and use that to drench your plants with...making sure that ALL of the surface of the dirt gets wet....

do it for 3 weeks and they should be gone. Sticky Whitefly traps will help catch the adults flying around...

I have had these fuckers many times...and this treatment is the easiest/most effective I've tried. I'm gonna keep a mosquitop dunk in my water bucket from here on out...just to be sure. EVERYTIME you bring in soil or a new houseplant from Wally's...etc. these fuckers are in the dirt!

good luck

bt dt

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thanks for getting back to me so quickly...I will definatley try this out....

babygro said:

Without pics it's impossible to say what's wrong and it's all guesswork, but it does sound a lot like Magnesium deficiency to me. Deficiencies change according to the severity of them and from the sounds of it yours sounds like it may be in advanced stages. You need to remember that whatever you do to your plants will take around 6/7 days to show on the plants - don't expect immediate results. Also on badly affected and damaged leaves they aren't going to miraculously recover overnight - you won't repair damaged leaves, all you can do is slow and stop the deficiency spreading to other parts of the plant.

It could be lots of things, without pictures it's impossible to say but it does sound a lot like Mg def.

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Babygro, I've been supplementing with MagiCal for about two weeks, no luck

ThePretender1982 said:

Seen a few gnats flying around, nothing major though....heres some pics, one showing the yellowed leaves on my biggest plant, and the other showing some of the dead spots plaguing the others.

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That plant does not look at all healthy and yeah I still think it's Magnesium, but you need to find the cause.

Need to know, how old the plant is, how long it's been in that pot, what soil you're using, what kind of water you're using, the ph of your water and what kind of nutrient strengths you're feeding at, also how and how often you're watering.

ThePretender1982 said:

Babygro, I've been supplementing with MagiCal for about two weeks, no luck

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Just because you're giving it nutrient feeds of the type of deficiency you think it is doesn't automatically mean the plant can access those nutrients in the soil, as I mentioned in my second post there's something else going on here and you need to find the cause of why the Mg is getting locked out from the soil. If the Mg is getting locked out from the soil by lets say for example high salinity of the irrigation water it won't matter how much Mg rich nutrient you feed into the soil, if it's getting locked out it's unavailable to the plant for uptake despite the fact that there's plenty available in the soil.

babygro said:

That plant does not look at all healthy and yeah I still think it's Magnesium, but you need to find the cause.

Need to know, how old the plant is, how long it's been in that pot, what soil you're using, what kind of water you're using, the ph of your water and what kind of nutrient strengths you're feeding at, also how and how often you're watering.

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Let's see: The plants are roughly 5 weeks old, they have been in that pot for about 2 1/2 weeks now, I'd have figured it was transplant shock had it not been this long, and I've been having the problem since before the transplant too. I am using distilled water bought from my local supermarket, I don't really know what the ph of it is, I'm guessing 7 or close to it. Feeding schedule is roughly about one cup of nute solution every couple of days, usually four days apart.

In one gallon of water I am mixing:
-two tablespoons of EarthJuice Grow, 2-1-1 (which according to the bottle is a strong solution).
- One teaspoon of Earthjuice Microblast 1-0-0 (A relatively mild solution)
- 1/4 Teaspoon of Earthjuice Meta-K 0-0-10 (A very mild solution)
- 1/4 Teaspoon of MagiCal 2-0-0 (Again a very mild solution. I had previously been supplementing with two Teaspoons which the bottle says to overcome deficiencies, I stopped and went with the weaker dosage after it didn't seem to be having any beneficial effects.)

That is about it, any thoughts?

babygro said:

Just because you're giving it nutrient feeds of the type of deficiency you think it is doesn't automatically mean the plant can access those nutrients in the soil, as I mentioned in my second post there's something else going on here and you need to find the cause of why the Mg is getting locked out from the soil. If the Mg is getting locked out from the soil by lets say for example high salinity of the irrigation water it won't matter how much Mg rich nutrient you feed into the soil, if it's getting locked out it's unavailable to the plant for uptake despite the fact that there's plenty available in the soil.

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Yeah, I was thinking about lockup issues, but I'm foiliar feeding too, and it's not helping

ThePretender1982 said:

Let's see: The plants are roughly 5 weeks old, they have been in that pot for about 2 1/2 weeks now, I'd have figured it was transplant shock had it not been this long, and I've been having the problem since before the transplant too. I am using distilled water bought from my local supermarket, I don't really know what the ph of it is, I'm guessing 7 or close to it. Feeding schedule is roughly about one cup of nute solution every couple of days, usually four days apart.

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Okay firstly I think you're over-feeding it with the wrong kind of nutrients. Secondly, why does it need feeding if it's only been 2 1/2 weeks in that soil? What soil is it? Is it particularly bad soil? Why are you using distilled water instead of tap water?

What lights are you using and what ventilation method and where are you growing it, what are your lights on and off temperatures and humidity?

babygro said:

Okay firstly I think you're over-feeding it with the wrong kind of nutrients. Secondly, why does it need feeding if it's only been 2 1/2 weeks in that soil? What soil is it? Is it particularly bad soil? Why are you using distilled water instead of tap water?

What lights are you using and what ventilation method and where are you growing it?

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Overfeeding? Really? Hmm....it has been in the same soil for all five weeks, the soil is a custom blend....it's got scotts potting soil, miracle grow seed starting mix (I didn't use nutes the first 2 1/2 to 3 weeks) Organic potting soil, and peat moss. As far as distilled vs tap water, frankly I was under the impression that using distilled was better insomuchas that I wouldn't have to fiddle with ph, or worry about hard water or any of that nonsense.

Just out of curiosity what do you mean when you say 'wrong kind of nutrients'?

Oh yes, I am using cfls (yes I know, another asshole thinking they're gonna grow using those damn things) they're 75 watts and I've got five of them. Daytime temps are roughly 80 degrees F with a humidity level of 46%

I am growing in a closet, for space reasons. When the lights are on and I am home, the door is open and I keep a window open as well. At night and when I am not home I keep the door cracked. There is an oscillating fan blowing on the plants at all times (it's not part of the timer schedule).

I'm gonna guess at the moment and say night time temps would be about 70 Degrees. Does that seem too cold?

Go buy a bag, smoke, forget about this grow and start over.

FirstTimeGrow said:

Go buy a bag, smoke, forget about this grow and start over.

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LOL you think it's that fucked up eh?

I'm gonna try and see this one through, save my money and next time get me a HPS light. But then again the best lighting won't do a damn thing if I can't get my nutrient issues resolved.

ThePretender1982 said:

Overfeeding? Really? Hmm....it has been in the same soil for all five weeks, the soil is a custom blend....it's got scotts potting soil, miracle grow seed starting mix (I didn't use nutes the first 2 1/2 to 3 weeks) Organic potting soil, and peat moss. As far as distilled vs tap water, frankly I was under the impression that using distilled was better insomuchas that I wouldn't have to fiddle with ph, or worry about hard water or any of that nonsense.

Just out of curiosity what do you mean when you say 'wrong kind of nutrients'?

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Soils a custom blend? That's not really what I like to hear and it sounds like its time to repot it up into another or larger pot.

I'm loathe to say you're doing it all wrong, but you are! You should be potting up your plant in increments - starting out in a 4 inch pot, 2-3 weeks later potting up to a 6-8 inch pot and 2-3 weeks later potting up into a 12 inch pot, letting it root that out and put it into flowering. yours has been in the same pot for 5 1/2 weeks, its soil nutrient reserves are spent, it's roots are probably pot bound and you're getting all sorts of leaf problems - no surprise really eh?

Each time you pot the plant up into a fresh set of soil in a pot, it also gets a fresh set of nutrients to feed on and more room for the roots to grow. The only time you should be feeding your plant is sometime in the 3 week onwards of flowering, because it's in it's final pot and the nutrients in that final pot will be starting to diminish.

Your nutrients are wrong because the NPK values of them are unbalanced, they don't contain enough of the primary nutrients. At the levels you've been feeding them they've probably got a salt buildup as well.

My advice to you now is to repot the plant into a bigger pot with a fresh set of soil and start feeding it with straight forward plain tap water. Buy a cheap Ph kit and PH the tap water, and adjust accordingly. In the meantime, start looking for a bloom fertiliser with a balanced NPK ratio that isn't too high. Also, you need to get fresh co2 into yuor growspace, plants won't grow properly without a constant fresh supply of co2.

ThePretender1982 said:

LOL you think it's that fucked up eh?

I'm gonna try and see this one through, save my money and next time get me a HPS light. But then again the best lighting won't do a damn thing if I can't get my nutrient issues resolved.

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Absolutely right. Your CFL's are NOT the problem here using a HPS light would probably have made the situation even worse.

babygro said:

Soils a custom blend? That's not really what I like to hear and it sounds like its time to repot it up into another or larger pot.

I'm loathe to say you're doing it all wrong, but you are! You should be potting up your plant in increments - starting out in a 4 inch pot, 2-3 weeks later potting up to a 6-8 inch pot and 2-3 weeks later potting up into a 12 inch pot, letting it root that out and put it into flowering. yours has been in the same pot for 5 1/2 weeks, its soil nutrient reserves are spent, it's roots are probably pot bound and you're getting all sorts of leaf problems - no surprise really eh?

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No, no surprise, but originally I had these guys in a big rubbermaid container, the pots you see them in now are the ones I moved them up to...I have read that you're only supposed to transport them one times at most...do you think repotting them once more would kill them?

babygro said:

Each time you pot the plant up into a fresh set of soil in a pot, it also gets a fresh set of nutrients to feed on and more room for the roots to grow. The only time you should be feeding your plant is sometime in the 3 week onwards of flowering, because it's in it's final pot and the nutrients in that final pot will be starting to diminish.

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Gotcha

babygro said:

Your nutrients are wrong because the NPK values of them are unbalanced, they don't contain enough of the primary nutrients. At the levels you've been feeding them they've probably got a salt buildup as well.

My advice to you now is to repot the plant into a bigger pot with a fresh set of soil and start feeding it with straight forward plain tap water. Buy a cheap Ph kit and PH the tap water, and adjust accordingly. In the meantime, start looking for a bloom fertiliser with a balanced NPK ratio that isn't too high. Also, you need to get fresh co2 into yuor growspace, plants won't grow properly without a constant fresh supply of co2.

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I'll see what I can do...do you think I should veg for a little while longer to see if any of this helps?

ThePretender1982 said:

No, no surprise, but originally I had these guys in a big rubbermaid container, the pots you see them in now are the ones I moved them up to...I have read that you're only supposed to transport them one times at most...do you think repotting them once more would kill them?

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Nah, it'll do them a world of good I reckon. I repot mine about 3 times before they go into flowering. Just be careful when you repot that you don't disturb the roots.

ThePretender1982 said:

I'll see what I can do...do you think I should veg for a little while longer to see if any of this helps?

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Sure, veg it for another couple of weeks, it's not ready for flowering yet anyway and you shouldn't really be putting a stressed plant into flowering. Repot it into fresh soil as I mentioned and feed it with the ph adjusted tap water and see how it responds.

We'll know a bit more about what it's problems are by watching it respond to the fresh soil and plain watering.