Any Organic Purists in Arizona?

If you have a proper compost to start you should have everything you need and I have listed many mixes that have all the NPKs or proper CEC one would need.

Ya i feel ya, just trying to get an idea of what is good and what is bad, and for what reasons. Trying to get into the ROLS/OLS spirit and use what i have on hand. Only making enough for a singe 10 gallon pot so im trying to be as thrifty as i can so i dont waste materials making such a small batch.
I ask a LOT of questions, its always been how i learned fastest, picking the minds of those with more knowledge than myself. I get that its annoying to those having their brains picked at

Ill work it out and post my results.

Excited to get to make some tasty bud like some Strawberry cough i once got. haha

1337hacker you can believe it or not but this is not about showing off or blowing smoke. Why would I waste my time? If you pull whatever you say please keep doing what you are doing and disregard this thread. Go ahead and follow the 3 birds and keep on the commercial path to decreasing biomass and wasting $$$.

OMG he is growing other plants in his pots!! They might take over lol...




Legion OG x Pestilence

Also the Rev has nothing to do with ROLS or LOS as what we discuss here and on other threads. That is horrible book I own full of canna myths and BS bottle practices that have people fooled.

man I wish I knew more about organics, that is some beautiful shit right there.

Why is 3 birds bad? is it not organic? Or just made from stuff you dont like treep? How is it commercial if you make it yourself with amendments from the same companies that sell Kelp meal, neem meal and crab shell meal???

Im confused by alot. Its seems that 3lb might not be organic ENOUGH for an organic purist, am i correct?

it's not rocket science. It has been around longer than your bags and bottles...and it works. I keep things very simple and get adequate results.

not you, Hydra...I was commenting on knowing more about living soil concept...

Azoned said:

it's not rocket science. It has been around longer than your bags and bottles...and it works. I keep things very simple and get adequate results.

not you, Hydra...I was commenting on knowing more about living soil concept...

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as someone that knows a bit about rocket science....sometimes this whole organic things is quite a bit more confusing, Ill get it though. im a smart cookie.

Hÿdra;9821498 said:

Why is 3 birds bad? is it not organic? Or just made from stuff you dont like treep? How is it commercial if you make it yourself with amendments from the same companies that sell Kelp meal, neem meal and crab shell meal???

Im confused by alot. Its seems that 3lb might not be organic ENOUGH for an organic purist, am i correct?

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Three Little Birds Method is about re amending potting mix with blood, bone, dolomite lime, and useless other things that don't matter to our program.

Back to that old reamend something that was broke to start.

LOS is about soil building from the ground up literally without animal products and growing your own "nutes". That's the direction I'm headed. 100% local sourced and grown myself. I have neem trees started..

The 3lb advice I take is on brewing and Molasses, I don't bother reusing soil, EVER, BEEN THERE DONE THAT. If you look back 2 or 3 years in my post history you will see beds mulched with straw and clovers also growing in my naturally sourced EWC.

These days my soil and nutrients cost me 320 dollars per run, and I take my soil for outdoor veggie beds for later use. 320 dollars is netting me 8-9 lbs of weed, and I used to pay 320 dollars for an ounce of good stuff in high school I know I could buy nutrients for cheaper but the taste and quality I get out of pure blend pro is pretty damn comparable to my 100 % organic grows, so I stopped splitting hairs.

It's unfair to tell a noobie that rols is gonna be easy, it takes way more knowledge than following simple formulas... The best I ever yielded in my beds was in the 1.5 lb per light range and I'd like to think I have a decent understanding of microbe life and what a plant needs... those numbers just disappoint when compared to any other medium including Fox farm soil w/ added bottled nutrients.

Hÿdra;9821569 said:

as someone that knows a bit about rocket science....sometimes this whole organic things is quite a bit more confusing, Ill get it though. im a smart cookie.

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no one knows exactly what is going on in the rhizosphere. There are still advancements and discoveries happening as we speak.. So, by all means, rocket science is in many more ways going to be easier understood.

1337hacker said:

no one knows exactly what is going on in the rhizosphere. There are still advancements and discoveries happening as we speak.. So, by all means, rocket science is in many more ways going to be easier understood.

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AN argument for another time and place

I am getting a minor in Closed environmental agriculture, so ill learn it all eventually!!! TOured the aquaponics lab last week its badass.

Hÿdra;9821653 said:

AN argument for another time and place

I am getting a minor in Closed environmental agriculture, so ill learn it all eventually!!! TOured the aquaponics lab last week its badass.

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nice man! I've been real interested in aquaponics ever since that guy grew 1 million lbs of food in a 1 acre greenhouse. Let us know how the classes go.

1337hacker said:

The 3lb advice I take is on brewing and Molasses, I don't bother reusing soil, EVER, BEEN THERE DONE THAT. If you look back 2 or 3 years in my post history you will see beds mulched with straw and clovers also growing in my naturally sourced EWC.

These days my soil and nutrients cost me 320 dollars per run, and I take my soil for outdoor veggie beds for later use. 320 dollars is netting me 8-9 lbs of weed, and I used to pay 320 dollars for an ounce of good stuff in high school I know I could buy nutrients for cheaper but the taste and quality I get out of pure blend pro is pretty damn comparable to my 100 % organic grows, so I stopped splitting hairs.

It's unfair to tell a noobie that rols is gonna be easy, it takes way more knowledge than following simple formulas... The best I ever yielded in my beds was in the 1.5 lb per light range and I'd like to think I have a decent understanding of microbe life and what a plant needs... those numbers just disappoint when compared to any other medium including Fox farm soil w/ added bottled nutrients.

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Do me a favor and post your garbage info someplace else. Telling people to use pure blend pro and that it's unfair to tell newbs that using a living soil is not going to be easy or whatever you are trying to imply. It's very simple.. it's that "we" sometimes love to over think and complicate things.

1cf peat/leaf humus
1cf of pumice, rice hulls, whatever
1cf of compost

1.5 cups of neem
1.5 cups of crab
1.5 cups of kelp
1.5 cups of alfalfa
12 cups of minerals ie rock dust balalts fines whatever


Make sure you wet the peat first with a wetting agent like aloe,yucca, compost tea, etc. Mix that all up very well and keep moist but not soggy in a vented bin for a month. You can just add water to this mix if you wanted no need for teas or pure blend pro or molasses.

You must always remember how important it is to make sure that compost or vc you get is of high quality! If you need a bagged compost product Bus Blend is great but lots $$$. That should easily get you through one cycle (4 months) without anything else.


Keep up with 1x week neem IPMs with aloe and silica and depending on the cultivar. You will do well.

I dont' think I'm telling anyone to use anything or spouting anything that is not true, the last person I saw use that mix got less than 3/4 lb a light. Just forewarning folks it is NOT AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS!! Good luck whatever you do, I just feel doing ROLS takes a further knowledge of gardening than you are leading on to. A knowledge possessed by probably only a few people even reading this post. Honestly for a noobie grower I would recommend Floranova Bloom, but that's just me.

headtreep said:

Keep it irrigated proper 6-10 kPa and you should have success.

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I've got a couple irrometers I keep lying around for a rainy day. Not sure about every closet gardener here though...

1337hacker said:

I've got a couple irrometers I keep lying around for a rainy day. Not sure about every closet gardener here though...

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1337hacker its cool dude. We have threads all over the net with thousands of positive feedback. Please keep doing what you are doing fine sir.

Well my time here is now done for now. I hope I did my service to the great folks of Arizona... We are working towards some "higher" learning and if anything else interesting comes along I will share.

It was a great discussion.

Last I checked cottonseed meal was available pesticide free and certified organic,
and what about fish bone meal as an alternative to regular bone meal? Just wondering about options there may be something good about the more immediate release of bone when combined with a slower release like rock phosphate.

Great thread headtreep and your mix sounds great.
I may be a little concerned about not adding a little dolomite lime though with a 1/3 peat mix but maybe the crab does the trick though and I bet it rocks. Thanks for the great info!

1337hacker said:

This thread started talking about serious weight... Never seen anyone pull 2 + in rols, maybe you can bust that myth with a pic. I learned bogs recipe in less than 1 typed message post and it still sticks with me til this day. I don't get whats not to like about the 3lb, they actually grew quantity and quality, most organic growers discount quantity but the 3lb could do 2-3 a light and didnt bother with that bullshit excusenof compromise. Never seen an rols grower do 2-3 a light but maybe I am wrong and missing something. Best rols I have seen is the rev and I have that book right now... he isnt much more than a closet grower and spending much more effort than I do on his little 600 w grows.

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No offense but when I hear about pounds per light or grams per watt it is absolutely meaningless.
100 stretchy columnar shaped hybrids yields huge in a tray but is ilegall. Vegging long enough will get you a great yield
every time. I personally get great yields in hydro but I sacrifice a little bit because I like every bud to get 100 percent light and be rock fucking hard with no fluff.
If I packed more plants in I would yield more but quality would go down-I hate fluff.
Now I guarantee you wont be pulling high numbers with say my oldschool bubba kush but if I grow critical mass, super skunk,big bud, ak47, etc instead could I brag?
It is always a compromise too some extent yield vs quality when deciding what to grow and any decent fertilizer program organic or other wise will get you there. As far as a perfect fertilizer program it requires
soil and leaf tissue analysis by a lab. That is how the commercial agg industry does it and even I have done it a couple times to hone things a bit.