Aliens

Hopefully there will be an experience in your life that will give you some enlightenment, hang in there!

I had that experience a few times.
But don't assume that my beliefs are dull and cynical.
Believe me I still see beauty in the world. It turns out that the universe is a very interesting place, stranger and more amazing than we could ever imagine. When you catch a glimpse of how it all works, it will leave you in awe.

"When you catch a glimpse of how it all works, it will leave you in awe."

"Awe" is the place from which the authors of the Scriptures came from.

Vi

I think they would have to, in order to write with such passion.

Many men have been gifted with spirituality, myself included. I don't presume to be any incarnation of any Diety, but I have been to the top of the mountain. There are quite a few clouds up there. obviously I have made if back safely to ground level. and grounded is what it is. Awe is a good word for the experience for any explanation would not do it justice. Here's hoping that everyone gets a chance to experience it! Even you V. Might change you a bit!

My question is this: Why is it that we can't accept that there is no creator? If we need to have been created then who or what created the creator?

We just are... If a creator can just Be... then why can't we?

Good point Skunk.
Regardless of wether the Universe began with the "Big Bang" or the "Big Bang" simply occurred in an eternal universe; There really is no need for a creator.

medicinaluseonly said:

Many men have been gifted with spirituality, myself included. I don't presume to be any incarnation of any Diety, but I have been to the top of the mountain. There are quite a few clouds up there. obviously I have made if back safely to ground level. and grounded is what it is. Awe is a good word for the experience for any explanation would not do it justice. Here's hoping that everyone gets a chance to experience it! Even you V. Might change you a bit!

Click to expand...

If you would take the time to read my posts regarding spiritual matters, you would know that I've been there as well.

Vi

For those of you whom don't believe, Maybe the Big Bang created the creator "I am that always was and will always be" Got to have some faith in something or theres no hope. To believe that we evolved from cosmic dust, with the power of "reason" Is beyond my comprehension, talk about imagination, and by the way, where did Imagination come from, dreams and paranormal experiences, I'd say there's more to humanity than a refinement of cosmic dust, Just my opinion!

Julian jaynes, professor from some big name college I can't recall at the moment, in his book "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" posits that the interplay/exchange/evolution between right and left brain gave rise to the current "conciousness" we posess whereby we are able to concieve of ourselves outside our current circumstances and imagine other possibilities. Kind of a theoretical history of the journey from the rooted, in-the-moment, immediacy of animal existance into the mixed blessing we live with today that is self awareness. Not only do we get to contemplate a perfect world and wonderful life but also the knowledge that our days are numbered and we are effectively only here for a very short time.

...and what sort of imagination does it take to believe that when we die we are going to live forever?

The bible was written in code by ancient philosophers; the bible is telling of our destiny. It is we that are God.

And to what end are we to be God, to be by ourselves all alone and wonder where all the people went. I believe we all have God in us, and God is in everything. Some of us will figure it out in this life and others will not. I think the Not factor looms large. Where you come down on this issue is entirely subjective and no-one but you and God knows your destiny, most times not even you! I think I'll play it safe and believe in the "fairy tale" as some call it because what if I'm right and the "Fairy tale" haters are wrong, I'm goin to a good place and they're goin to Hell! It really is not that much of a burden to believe, and so what if your friends don't like it, keep it to yourself. Anyway, It's just my opinion. The main line here is to believe "faith"! It's up to you. your not believing will have no effect on me in the end!

yeah, and maybe there'll be a hundred virgins waiting for you there too. lol

...and harps, clouds, casino's.

In truth i really wish there was a God. Unfortunately I know there isn't. One day we'll be able to pay to extend our lives, scientists have already isolated the gene responsible for aging, it's just a matter of time before they discover something to slow it down.

Death is a terrible thing, it is the end.

How can you know your version is anyway more valid than mine? they are both suppositions as none (except maybe Jesus) has come back from the dead. Fade to black has been countered with visions of a new experience, after near death experiences! The truth is No-one really knows what really happens when you die. There's your version of fade to black , and dozens of other versions, which one among us has the correct answer, None as we haven't died yet. You can life life to the fullest and be a holder of any position, I think the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a solid position to hold, and leave the death question up to the individuals Judgement> No-one has the high road here!

Wow, Med ... great post.

Now if only you could write as elequently on the subject of politics!

Vi

PS: That was a compliment.

the validity of any argument should be based on reason and fact, in this case faith is left to the side and hasn't a leg to stand on. you cant argue faith with fact or vice versa because the basis of each are a million miles apart.having said that- i believe in evolution because like it or not it has been proven. as a child i was very involved in the church, i didnt lose my faith until my teens, it was very hard to come to terms with at first but i felt truly reborn when i finally let go. but i found that faith followed me, not faith in a god who i knew didnt exist but faith in species. the realisation of my insignifigance was extremely humbling, the notion that we are all one entity was empowering- surely this couldn't be, had i had a non-religious "religious" experience?
i put it down to faith not being owned by religion or explained by science(yet!) i wont bore you anymore with this, i have basically paraphrased many years of questioning. lets heat this thing up!
alright believers- explain the dinosaurs? how old is our planet? have you heard of the genome project?
plenty more where that came from!

"i found that faith followed me, not faith in a god who i knew didnt exist but faith in species. the realisation of my insignifigance was extremely humbling, the notion that we are all one entity was empowering- surely this couldn't be, had i had a non-religious "religious" experience?"

Personally, I honestly don't believe that a person needs "religion" in order to have a spiritual experience. And yes ... I'd say that you had a non-religious, "religious" experience. I've had the same experience as well. The realization that "we" are all one entity is quite remarkable.

Vi

medicinaluseonly said:

How can you know your version is anyway more valid than mine? they are both suppositions as none (except maybe Jesus) has come back from the dead. Fade to black has been countered with visions of a new experience, after near death experiences! The truth is No-one really knows what really happens when you die. There's your version of fade to black , and dozens of other versions, which one among us has the correct answer, None as we haven't died yet. You can life life to the fullest and be a holder of any position, I think the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a solid position to hold, and leave the death question up to the individuals Judgement> No-one has the high road here!

Click to expand...

That's like asking: When a tree falls down in the woods and there isn't anything around to hear it, does it still make a noise? There is an OBVIOUS answer, you can just never prove it.

Cavemen, well up until the pagans really, worshipped the Sun. Ah, I think I've stumbled upon something... As to why Americans are so religous... it's to do with your history... and the propaganda machine of your Government... American history is only half a millenia old... you're taught patriotism from a very early age... religion is a form of control.

You need to look at the history of the whole of religion. I KNOW there is no God. Just as I knew at a fairly young age there is no Father Christmas (Santa Claus) or Tooth Fairy. I was actually raised with this knowledge. I remember being at school, really young, and I used to think that I had to keep it to myself, that it was wrong not to believe... I'm older now and I will shout it from the rooftops. WAKE UP! There is no God. I'm not prepared to let people continue with this bollocks. It's out-dated and I will argue with anybody that says differently.

ViRedd said:

Wow, Med ... great post.

Now if only you could write as elequently on the subject of politics!

Vi

PS: That was a compliment.

Click to expand...

I've found that here on this forum there is no convincing anyone to change, so other than some obseqeues comment here or there , I'll not delve in the political arena. The effective changes rendered here would be too minimal to count in any election anyway, so to each his own. If people want to believe that George Bush is a great president, Fuck them, I'll not debate that assholes credibility any longer, fuck them will suffice! As far as all the other views like how many dead in Iraq, who the fuck really knows, we're spinning our wheels. Just like you said you didn't read Molly Ivens as she was Ann Coulter on steroids, theres no convincing someone whose mind is closed to any opposing views, so it ends up a cat fight, I'm way too not interested in cat fighting to continue in this manner, and to be scoffed at for not "proving" my point with someone elses rhetoric, that was getting old, so maybe every once in a while I'll chime in with some bullshit, just to see who's still here, but my cat fighting days are over, I guess in your way you can say you've won, congratulations!