AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
I have no excuse for my absence but...

Bete sells the same design as spraying systems and RELAB. All designs incorporate wide angle full cone internal mixing, if you specify. This is the design you referenced. The only differences are the prices. You also sacrifice a slight amount of quality by going with the cheaper RELAB nozzle. My only recommendation is to go with the lowest flow possible as the higher flows require a much larger volume of air. Add more nozzles if you need extra coverage. Be sure to also ask for npt threading rather than bspt as it will be easier to find fittings. Unless of course you live in Europe. Shipping from RELAB is expensive at about 70.00 but the nozzles are only 50.00 +- each. I would order in bulk as this is the only way to save money. Also, I have not used BETE nozzles but my Relab heads are not interchangeable with my Spraying Systems.

Thats all I can think of right now but if you have any other questions let me know.
 

Glider

Member
I have no excuse for my absence but...

Bete sells the same design as spraying systems and RELAB. All designs incorporate wide angle full cone internal mixing, if you specify. This is the design you referenced. The only differences are the prices. You also sacrifice a slight amount of quality by going with the cheaper RELAB nozzle. My only recommendation is to go with the lowest flow possible as the higher flows require a much larger volume of air. Add more nozzles if you need extra coverage. Be sure to also ask for npt threading rather than bspt as it will be easier to find fittings. Unless of course you live in Europe. Shipping from RELAB is expensive at about 70.00 but the nozzles are only 50.00 +- each. I would order in bulk as this is the only way to save money. Also, I have not used BETE nozzles but my Relab heads are not interchangeable with my Spraying Systems.

Thats all I can think of right now but if you have any other questions let me know.
Thanks Aero, the BETE's are $45 and ship from Massachusetts. I am considering changing my current high water pressure system to air assisted I hope it will note take to many more parts. Those damn solenoids are expensive
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
Were the hell were you when I ordered my last set? 45.00 for bete's??? Their price has crashed harder than my rental house! They were a lot higher 2 years ago when I was looking around. You need to PM me the name and contact of your sales rep if you are able to get them that cheap! Seriously, PM me the info. Id like to get my hands on a few more lower flow units at that price! Great info!
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
I just contacted bete and their XAAD nozzles in 304 stainless run 144.33 each. If your getting them for 100 off let me know.
 

Glider

Member
I just contacted bete and their XAAD nozzles in 304 stainless run 144.33 each. If your getting them for 100 off let me know.
I quoted XAAD in nickel plated brass directly with the factory (800-235-0049). I really don't think we need to use all stainless. For instance most of the pipes in homes are copper and I have not noticed a general die off of house plants.
 

indrhrvest

New Member
I came across this thread doing some research on sonic nozzles. There is a wealth of knowledge in this thread. I'm an investor who's currently funding the development of a commercial aeroponics system. I'm waiting on our tooling to be completed for our HDPE root chambers, but I do plan to share my R&D publicly once we get started. We are designing large scale commercial aeroponics systems for our own franchised CEA operations. Our systems wouldn't be of any use for a small grower or hobby grower, but I believe our R&D will help further the industry.

I'm very familiar with forum etiquette, I've been around online forums since USENET, so I don't expect anyone to take me serious, being my first post and all. We will be going very public with our project soon, so I expect us to stir up some chatter. I am going to be looking to add experience to my team and I fully realize the brightest and sharpest minds are going to be found within the marijuana growing community.

Edit: Just thought I'd share some of my knowledge. Don't put to much emphasis on initial price. The most important factor with a sonic nozzle is how much SCFM it uses. You may pay $75 more for another nozzle, but if it uses 1 SCFM less to produce the same result, you will save in electrical costs due to compressor cycling. Compressed air is one of the most inefficient methods of delivery. Just throwing my $0.02 into the conversation.
 

indrhrvest

New Member
Rotary atomizers are a viable method, although for large areas I assume. The one pictured seems to be making rather large droplets compared to what we'd like to use for this purpose and I haven't seen anyone growing plants with them yet.
We've got one we are going to try in a 64 cubic foot root chamber (4 X 8 X 2). The unit comes from Ledebuhr Industries. The motor is just a 1HP Lesson Washguard.

IMG_9327.jpgIMG_9328.jpgIMG_9329.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5eE73TfuoE
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
Welcome indrhrvest glad to have you aboard. Looking forward to checking out the design of your sonic nozzle. I apologize in advance for the bombardment of questions.

I have seen the video before but I am not as familiar with rotary atomizers as I would like to be. How do you plan to prevent over saturation in a 4x8x2 chamber? How are you going to cycle mist intervals or do you plan to? If you do cycle will you allow the unit to spool up and down between cycles or will it be continuous duty?

What are the dimensions of your hdpe chambers? If your chambers are designed for commercial use why not fiberglass or even stainless? Are your chambers dual walled construction and do you plan to insulate? Also a major concern with commercialization imo would be chilling the reservoirs under greenhouse conditions. What are your thoughts on this? I would love to know your background and experience with aeroponics. Again, welcome to the thread, I hope to hear your thoughts.
 

indrhrvest

New Member
Welcome indrhrvest glad to have you aboard. Looking forward to checking out the design of your sonic nozzle. I apologize in advance for the bombardment of questions.
Oh.. as a CEO I'm use to plenty of questions lol.

I have seen the video before but I am not as familiar with rotary atomizers as I would like to be. How do you plan to prevent over saturation in a 4x8x2 chamber?
The bigger question is what will be the most efficient way to produce plants with the least amount of electricity and water. The majority of our customers will be growing low margin crops unlike marijuana so I have to keep that in mind. I'm not so much interested in developing a "true" Aeroponics system as I am in finding a method that works large scale. My goal is to develop a drain to waste system so obviously that means using as little water as possible. The rotary atomizer we have now is just a starting point. We may find that we have to develop our own systems. We have already done some R&D using low pressure systems and Antelco nozzles (EZ Clone Nozzles). They pretty much saturate everything, but the growth rate was more than satisfactory. Only problem with low pressure is it's not economical to run drain to waste. So the question is.. even if a rotary atomizer does saturate roots, will it use less water, enough so that we can go drain to waste. I won't know that until we do some R&D.

How are you going to cycle mist intervals or do you plan to? If you do cycle will you allow the unit to spool up and down between cycles or will it be continuous duty?
That will come out in R&D. We can develop whatever electronics are needed to run the entire system. First we have to determine electric or pneumatic delivery first.

What are the dimensions of your hdpe chambers? If your chambers are designed for commercial use why not fiberglass or even stainless?
Our first design will be 4X8X2 for deep root mass production, however we will also be building stack-able 4X8X1 as well for smaller plant. HDPE is not only an FDA approved food grade material, it also resists deposit build up. Fiberglass and stainless would muck up pretty quick. Everyone hates scrubbing soap scum off thier bathtub.. imagine a having to do it on a 4X8 bathtub. Our units are being designed to be modular, simply change the lid to a 32 hole, 64 hole, 192 hole or a 4X8 grow mat (leafy greens).

Are your chambers dual walled construction and do you plan to insulate? Also a major concern with commercialization imo would be chilling the reservoirs under greenhouse conditions. What are your thoughts on this?
Our business plan is to develop a turn key application for urban CEA operations, so there is no need to insulate the tanks. Our target markets are cold climate and the middle east, so green houses don't really even fit into our business plan. Our systems would be deployed to places like Alaska, Sweden or Qatar. Our current design doesn't call for a bunch of reservoirs, but one central plant, with a large R/O processing system, single storage (house tank), Dosatron dosers and a manifold style plumbing delivery system.

The HVAC system will be chill water based and we will run a coil system in the house tank. The nutrient manifold will have recirculating pumps. There would be one main tank for each nutrient solution with a manifold system running throughout the complex. Simply roll the modular grow unit up to the manifold, chose the nutrient solution and plug the system in using quick disconnects.

I would love to know your background and experience with aeroponics. Again, welcome to the thread, I hope to hear your thoughts.
I have ZERO experience in Aeroponics aside from some playing around with a low pressure design. My background is in private equity and mechanical project management (plumbing/HVAC). I previously had over a decade of experience in design build and project management of mechanical systems for medical gas, process piping and control systems before getting into private equity promotion. My interest in this industry is that it's something that investors would drool over if packaged right. So I'm going to package it up..

I know how to plumb it, I know how to raise money for it and I know how to promote it..
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
The bigger question is what will be the most efficient way to produce plants with the least amount of electricity and water. The majority of our customers will be growing low margin crops unlike marijuana so I have to keep that in mind. I'm not so much interested in developing a "true" Aeroponics system as I am in finding a method that works large scale. My goal is to develop a drain to waste system so obviously that means using as little water as possible. The rotary atomizer we have now is just a starting point. We may find that we have to develop our own systems. We have already done some R&D using low pressure systems and Antelco nozzles (EZ Clone Nozzles). They pretty much saturate everything, but the growth rate was more than satisfactory. Only problem with low pressure is it's not economical to run drain to waste. So the question is.. even if a rotary atomizer does saturate roots, will it use less water, enough so that we can go drain to waste. I won't know that until we do some R&D.
First off, and others may disagree with me, I have not noticed a huge variation in my PH and Ec with my runoff. In fact I have recirculated nutes for over 2 weeks (this past season) without seeing a noticeable fluctuation at all. So re-circulation in atomized aero is not as taboo as many people think imo. Also, if you are not concerned with over saturation why dont you just run a drip or nft system. You can run dtw, flow is easily adjusted, and the system can be controlled with cycled intervals. It would also be much more electrically efficient as you can run smaller pumps with much smaller motors.

With my atomizing nozzles it is very easy to have 5-8 gallons of runoff in a 2x4x8 chamber in a given 24hr period. Depending of course on the cycle time. If you don't cycle your rotary atomizer its highly likely that you will have even more runoff than a simple cycled antelco nozzle system. Most growers here will agree with me when I say that controlling saturation levels in a given atomized aeroponics system is paramount in controlling waste and efficiency. Therefore a cycled system is the answer to your "bigger question".

Our business plan is to develop a turn key application for urban CEA operations, so there is no need to insulate the tanks. Our target markets are cold climate and the middle east, so green houses don't really even fit into our business plan.
You will find (if you do decide to cycle your nutes) you will need to insulate the containers in order to offer a working turn key system to the Middle East. Green houses not only keep cold climates warmer but you they also cool warmer climates. Most commercial hydroponic ventures that I am aware of do all growing under glass. Over 300 acres in some cases. http://www.eurofresh.com/ I use my system indoors and the main reason I shut it down during the summer is because temps can reach upwards and over 110 F outside, and I dont want to cover AC expenses. If you do not chill and insulate your chambers, they will not work in an arid desert climate.

The HVAC system will be chill water based and we will run a coil system in the house tank. The nutrient manifold will have recirculating pumps. There would be one main tank for each nutrient solution with a manifold system running throughout the complex. Simply roll the modular grow unit up to the manifold, chose the nutrient solution and plug the system in using quick disconnects.
Without a heavily insulated chamber this design will not work in the Middle East.

I have ZERO experience in Aeroponics aside from some playing around with a low pressure design. My background is in private equity and mechanical project management (plumbing/HVAC). I previously had over a decade of experience in design build and project management of mechanical systems for medical gas, process piping and control systems before getting into private equity promotion. My interest in this industry is that it's something that investors would drool over if packaged right. So I'm going to package it up..

I know how to plumb it, I know how to raise money for it and I know how to promote it..
I am sure you are well aware that a properly packaged and marketed system does not necessarily equal a working design. If you are interested in putting a system together that can be marketed solely on the basis that it is technically an "Aeroponic" system, it is quite possible for you to be successful. You aren't the first and you certainly wont be the last. However you will find in your R&D that this is such a finicky system (when done efficiently and effectively) that it will be very difficult to market a single design for every climate.

My intentions are not to take the wind out of your sails, I appreciate everyone who's desire is to involve themselves in Atomized Aeroponics. These are obviously my own opinions based on the experiences I have encountered with my own designs. Others will both agree and disagree with them. However, and I am sure you are aware, it is best to view all angles when investing, especially on the commercial scale you are approaching. Therefore playing devil's advocate is the best I feel I can do for you. Best of luck to you in your venture and any future questions you have are welcome on this thread.
 

indrhrvest

New Member
First off, and others may disagree with me, I have not noticed a huge variation in my PH and Ec with my runoff. In fact I have recirculated nutes for over 2 weeks (this past season) without seeing a noticeable fluctuation at all. So re-circulation in atomized aero is not as taboo as many people think imo. Also, if you are not concerned with over saturation why dont you just run a drip or nft system. You can run dtw, flow is easily adjusted, and the system can be controlled with cycled intervals. It would also be much more electrically efficient as you can run smaller pumps with much smaller motors.
I haven't ruled out re-circulating. I'm currently looking at a sonic siphon nozzle right now that only uses 1 CFM and 1 gallon per hour. It was originally designed for dust control and gas cooling. The question I will need to answer is how many nozzles are needed and what run time is required to fill the root chamber. Yes, our design would utilize a recycle timer. When I say I'm not concerned with over saturation, I'm simply saying I'm not striving for aeroponic perfection. The other problem with NFT and Drip is our planned method of propagation might not work well with that method. Our system would use no consumable medias (rockwools, plugs etc..). We are even playing around with a washable fabric media for leafy green production.

With my atomizing nozzles it is very easy to have 5-8 gallons of runoff in a 2x4x8 chamber in a given 24hr period. Depending of course on the cycle time. If you don't cycle your rotary atomizer its highly likely[ that you will have even more runoff than a simple cycled antelco nozzle system. Most growers here will agree with me when I say that controlling saturation levels in a given atomized aeroponics system is paramount in controlling waste and efficiency. Therefore a cycled system is the answer to your "bigger question".
4-6 gallons was what we were expecting, so sounds like we are on the same page here. I think with some tweaking we can get that down a little more though.

You will find (if you do decide to cycle your nutes) you will need to insulate the containers in order to offer a working turn key system to the Middle East. Green houses not only keep cold climates warmer but you they also cool warmer climates. Most commercial hydroponic ventures that I am aware of do all growing under glass. Over 300 acres in some cases. http://www.eurofresh.com/ I use my system indoors and the main reason I shut it down during the summer is because temps can reach upwards and over 110 F outside, and I dont want to cover AC expenses. If you do not chill and insulate your chambers, they will not work in an arid desert climate.
If our market was green house owners I'd agree, but it's not our target market. We are not going to compete with large commercial Ag, that's not our market. Think the Starbucks or Ben & Jerry's of produce.. niche markets, hotel chains, restaurants and specialty grocers.

I am sure you are well aware that a properly packaged and marketed system does not necessarily equal a working design. If you are interested in putting a system together that can be marketed solely on the basis that it is technically an "Aeroponic" system, it is quite possible for you to be successful. You aren't the first and you certainly wont be the last. However you will find in your R&D that this is such a finicky system (when done efficiently and effectively) that it will be very difficult to market a single design for every climate.
It's a bit more involved than just the equipment, we are building a produce brand with value added products. The equipment is just part of the equation. I'm looking at vertical integration of the business model from supplier, value added products to distribution. The equipment would in essence become inside sales.

My intentions are not to take the wind out of your sails, I appreciate everyone who's desire is to involve themselves in Atomized Aeroponics. These are obviously my own opinions based on the experiences I have encountered with my own designs. Others will both agree and disagree with them. However, and I am sure you are aware, it is best to view all angles when investing, especially on the commercial scale you are approaching. Therefore playing devil's advocate is the best I feel I can do for you. Best of luck to you in your venture and any future questions you have are welcome on this thread.
We have a decent R&D budget so no telling what we come up with :)
 

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Some of the design goals and approaches seem a little contradictory to me.
For instance, the waste water from the reverse osmosis plant would be considerably greater than the amount used by the crop. A closed (recirculating) hydro system could be much more economical for low margin crops when you take account of the higher initial outlay and ongoing maintenance costs for the more complex approach. You`ve set yourself a pretty tough task considering you have limited experience of aeroponics.
 

indrhrvest

New Member
Some of the design goals and approaches seem a little contradictory to me.
For instance, the waste water from the reverse osmosis plant would be considerably greater than the amount used by the crop. A closed (recirculating) hydro system could be much more economical for low margin crops when you take account of the higher initial outlay and ongoing maintenance costs for the more complex approach.
You'd be surprised just how efficient the very large commercial RO systems are.

Check this math on a nozzle that does .97 gallons per hour at 1.02 CFM from Delavan ( 30609-11 ).

20 second run every 5 minutes, 4 nozzles = 80 seconds per cycle. That's 12 minutes run time per hour. That would mean roughly 1 gallon every 5 hours right? That's 4.8 gallons per day. A 9 week run would be 302 gallons?

City water is about $.005 per gallon on average. Commercial RO processing can yield a TDS of 500 on a 1:1 ratio. Not exactly super low ppm's, but more than enough if you run through a standard softener first. I'm not sure what ppm that would work out too, but probably in the 100 range. Worst case is still 4:1 in a properly designed commercial system where you are not putting pressure on the downside of the membrane. Most the RO systems sold by Hydro shops are nowhere near as efficient as a properly engineered RO system.

So that's roughly 1,200 gallons per 9 week run, or simply put $6.00. The price of a Venti coffee at Starbucks. I'm willing to bet the $6 wasted water is a lot cheaper than maintaining a recirculating system, even if it was 4 times more.

Of course I need to prove this theory first. I need to know whether 4 nozzles will fill a 32 cubic foot chamber in 20 seconds first. Even 8 nozzles would still be economical drain to waste IMHO.

You`ve set yourself a pretty tough task considering you have limited experience of aeroponics.
Designing large scale plant systems is what I did for 10 years such as complex gas cooling systems, chip etching, medical gas systems and air control systems. Squirting water on some roots seems a bit easy to me hehe.. We did pretty dang good on our little low pressure aero system.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
You'd be surprised just how efficient the very large commercial RO systems are.

Check this math on a nozzle that does .97 gallons per hour at 1.02 CFM from Delavan ( 30609-11 ).

20 second run every 5 minutes, 4 nozzles = 80 seconds per cycle. That's 12 minutes run time per hour. That would mean roughly 1 gallon every 5 hours right? That's 4.8 gallons per day. A 9 week run would be 302 gallons?

City water is about $.005 per gallon on average. Commercial RO processing can yield a TDS of 500 on a 1:1 ratio. Not exactly super low ppm's, but more than enough if you run through a standard softener first. I'm not sure what ppm that would work out too, but probably in the 100 range. Worst case is still 4:1 in a properly designed commercial system where you are not putting pressure on the downside of the membrane. Most the RO systems sold by Hydro shops are nowhere near as efficient as a properly engineered RO system.

So that's roughly 1,200 gallons per 9 week run, or simply put $6.00. The price of a Venti coffee at Starbucks. I'm willing to bet the $6 wasted water is a lot cheaper than maintaining a recirculating system, even if it was 4 times more.

Of course I need to prove this theory first. I need to know whether 4 nozzles will fill a 32 cubic foot chamber in 20 seconds first. Even 8 nozzles would still be economical drain to waste IMHO.



Designing large scale plant systems is what I did for 10 years such as complex gas cooling systems, chip etching, medical gas systems and air control systems. Squirting water on some roots seems a bit easy to me hehe.. We did pretty dang good on our little low pressure aero system.
IMHO, true aero is an all or nothing sport. If you don't achieve nice fuzzy roots, you won't be able to enjoy the benefits of low amounts of waste effluent, etc... You either make the grade, or you have the world's most complex and expensive NFT setup. I think that's one of the single most misunderstood aspects to this, there is not a linear relationship as if you do it 90% correct would infer you get 90% of the results, in reality, you either have it or you don't. Now that's by no means putting down the idea, I just wanted you to catch that point before you get set under false assumptions of what your end results will be. You can see our own Petflora here who resists an accumulator. He always thought he could get 80-90% of the true aero results without an accumulator- well now he is enjoying much better performance from his "21st Century Flood and Drain" setup... ;)

I feel it is only time and true aero will be used alot more commonly. We need more bright minds and innovations working towards it however. I am sure as it evolves, new ways of doing things will probably make it easier. The hardest part is departing from your "low pressure" mindset, which 99% of the world is still operating with mentally. I have all sorts of strange ideas- chambers that expand and contract like a set of lungs during a misting to mix and move the mist- or even perhaps ionising the droplets and having the roots with an opposite charge that would attract them and even synthetic roots that work like an I.V. with thousands of microscopic needles you just impale the base of your cutting on. It's very abstract, but I am sure there are alot of advancements to be made. I find it hard to believe that high pressure aero in it's present state will be the end all be all of growing technology for all of eternity.
 

indrhrvest

New Member
IMHO, true aero is an all or nothing sport. If you don't achieve nice fuzzy roots, you won't be able to enjoy the benefits of low amounts of waste effluent, etc... Now that's by no means putting down the idea, I just wanted you to catch that point before you get set under false assumptions of what your end results will be.
In designing mechanical systems, delivery, maintenance and infrastructure efficiency are the primary concerns. When you are building for example computer chip etching delivery systems, I'm quite confident the level of delivery is far more advanced than Aeroponics.

I try to keep the basics real simple. For Aeroponics to work you need a few things. 1.) Very small water particles, 10-40 microns seems to be where it is at, and 2.) Environmental controls.

Designing a system to delivery 10-40 microns is the easy part. Designing a system to maintain a specific environment is also easy. The hard part is figuring out the right balance. In order to find the right balance, you need a system that has controls. Controls are the main ingredient in any mechanical system. Every plant is also different, so what works for Basil, might not work for Cilantro etc..

That's what we are doing. We are developing a commercial system that is modular, scalable, heavy duty and has controls.

P.S. an accumulator serves a mechanical purpose.. it relieves stress on the pump, thus increasing pump life. If your lines are "snapping" and the systems vibrates heavily, the system is poorly designed. For smaller systems you can simply use high pressure water arrestors. Guys spending $200+ on an accumulator for a small Aerosystem are wasting money. A simple $30 Arrestor from Watts or Precision Plumbing would accomplish the same thing for the most part. Unless you are using larger pumps with a lot of flow, an accumulator tank is not always needed.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
In designing mechanical systems, delivery, maintenance and infrastructure efficiency are the primary concerns. When you are building for example computer chip etching delivery systems, I'm quite confident the level of delivery is far more advanced than Aeroponics.

I try to keep the basics real simple. For Aeroponics to work you need a few things. 1.) Very small water particles, 10-40 microns seems to be where it is at, and 2.) Environmental controls.

Designing a system to delivery 10-40 microns is the easy part. Designing a system to maintain a specific environment is also easy. The hard part is figuring out the right balance. In order to find the right balance, you need a system that has controls. Controls are the main ingredient in any mechanical system. Every plant is also different, so what works for Basil, might not work for Cilantro etc..

That's what we are doing. We are developing a commercial system that is modular, scalable, heavy duty and has controls.

P.S. an accumulator serves a mechanical purpose.. it relieves stress on the pump, thus increasing pump life. If your lines are "snapping" and the systems vibrates heavily, the system is poorly designed. For smaller systems you can simply use high pressure water arrestors. Guys spending $200+ on an accumulator for a small Aerosystem are wasting money. A simple $30 Arrestor from Watts or Precision Plumbing would accomplish the same thing for the most part. Unless you are using larger pumps with a lot of flow, an accumulator tank is not always needed.
Where did you come up with the 10-40 microns? Not saying it's wrong, but just that the general consensus has been 30-80 microns although it's probably splitting hairs (no pun intended). :)

Here's where you need to up your game if you want to succeed imo. You are correct in needing control, and the accumulator is exactly what provides that for you. The less pump cycles, as well as reserve spraying for power outages are just nice byproducts of using one and ironically without an accum you probably don't have waterhammer issues. The most important functional aspect of an accumulator is to provide crisp on/off cycles with no ramping up and down of pressure as these will affect your mist particle sizes. It's also important to have a solenoid near each nozzle for the same reason, and that's where the expense tends to climb for us. Atomizer once put it very eloquently saying something like "it makes no sense to throw a bucket of pain on a canvas, paint a masterpiece, then throw another bucket of paint over it". And without a crisp cycle, that's basically what you'll be doing...

Working with silicon and lasers are easier in some ways than working with a living organism. If it was easy there'd be alot more companies doing it. I understand what you are saying however, and as long as you realize that a similar amount of thoughtfulness and precision will be needed, then you'll have the best chances. Saying just because you can etch nanometer circuits into a piece of silicon that you can design and successfully run a commercial aeroponics outfit is like saying you can fly a commercial jet just because you are a boat captain. They both require certain levels of competence, yet one does not predispose you to the other without training in it's independent intracasies.
 

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
I have to assume you knew there was going to be a fair amount of criticism coming from this group. Sounds like your R&D team have their work cut out for them. Starbucks is gonna have to really crank up the Norah Jones if they're to combat the noise coming from that unit, lol. Another reason to insulate your chamber, imo. I noticed that about 25 secs into the vid, that the chamber walls are bowing in & out at quite a frantic pace. Seems like alot of water being thrown around to cause that. I can't fathom how even with controls, a system like this could be more efficient than AA or even accumulator based systems. Just my .02
 
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