AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
polymath said:
actually i havent done anything with it yet, I found a guy who is attempting to use this technology to grow TREES...... [sog??]

way better area of coverage but I am still unsure as to whether the droplet size can be controlled and/or of uniform size....

there is always the downscale version, where i go to a hardware store and pick up one of these puppies : http://www.dansdata.com/images/tools/dremel500.jpg

from there i would set up a slow drip line that lets nute droplets fall onto the spinning dremel.....

that way you can put the dremel and/or the line on some kind of control timer, like i said the more viable option would be a mist head where you can control droplet size very well... but i dont really think it matters since everyone but aj seems to be misting nutes at between 1 and 5 microns anyway with their fogger/humidifier/nebulizer combo packs. i figure getting drops of all shapes and sizes (as long as we dont oversaturate the roots to combine into larger droplets) between 1 and 60? microns could be of use, but i keep hearing the number 55.......

question
a billion droplets at 55 microns for best fuzzy root happiness
or one at 13, one at 60, one at 42, one at 33, one at 12 etc etc... [this seems like what would happen on a rotary atomizer??]
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I believe the best rotary atomizers have corrugations that shear the droplets and then they are fairly uniform, I mean even with an air atomised nozzle you get a plethora of sizes, just looking for a mean diameter around the right size seems good. Ultrasonic/humidifiers make a droplet size too small for continued plant growth as far as I understand. AJ is not the only one. I feel one issue with the rotary atomizers is they have to be up to speed before the water is allowed to drip on them, otherwise the larger droplets will have already painted the surfaces of everything wet and the smaller droplets will be a moot point. Thee's probably a little more work going into a proper rotary head than just any old dremel wheel to produce useable results- and then you'll need quite a large chamber as they output alot of spray.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
I have a rotary atomizer somewhere, they are precision machined which hundreds of flutes to guide the water to the perimeter where hundreds of teeth form it into thin strands which break up into droplets. Hydraulic and AA nozzles are easier to control and they make a lot less noise.
 
polymath

polymath

Member
Atomizer said:
I have a rotary atomizer somewhere, they are precision machined which hundreds of flutes to guide the water to the perimeter where hundreds of teeth form it into thin strands which break up into droplets. Hydraulic and AA nozzles are easier to control and they make a lot less noise.
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anybody have a favorite hydraulic or AA atomizer????
i was digging the ruby roots system >http://soillesssolutions.squarespace.com/ruby-roots/?SSScrollPosition=440

but anything cheaper? is this overkill??

i want to get a reliable system locked down....
 
polymath

polymath

Member
also, my friend has a nebulizer that he uses for nute atomization. with the top on it blasts out at 5 microns..... take the top OFF and the particles get larger............ but he says that "...its still not as consistent as HP or centrifugal."
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
polymath said:
anybody have a favorite hydraulic or AA atomizer????
i was digging the ruby roots system >http://soillesssolutions.squarespace.com/ruby-roots/?SSScrollPosition=440

but anything cheaper? is this overkill??

i want to get a reliable system locked down....
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I'd say "UnderKill" lol... If you want to do it right, you'll probably have to make your own system. There is plenty to read on here under the hp aero threads. I don't know of any nebulizer capable of getting good results through harvest so far. I'm dabbling myself here and there and so far it seems ok for propagation and that's about it. Even then there is alot to work around, especially the heat from the unit.
 
polymath

polymath

Member
if one were to use a fogger/nebulizer/humidifier that DID indeed make fine (<5 micron) droplets, but it was working in a res that was disconnected from the root chamber, wouldn't a high powered fan pumping the mist into the root chamber combine many of these small droplets into larger ones (5+5=10 type stuff.......), either in the air, or afterwards on the roots??

i see more of a problem when the droplets exceed 55 microns, which seems would happen more frequently if your mister was pumping out at that size because i feel the droplets will always be colliding and growing, especially given the size of the chambers we are working with...

i am not trying to discount the hailed true aeroponic environment, but my basic skills in arithmetic (no ged required) would lead me to believe that a chaotic environment with many small particles would always lead to an environment with less droplets than created (i.e. combinations of many droplets)

help?
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
I'm kinda on board with what you're saying, aside from the nebulizer. A fan could work as long as it didn't stay on long enough to dry the roots. I like the idea of some sort of diaphragm moving back & forth to create turbulence in the chamber, like a sub woofer... I've not really had much feedback here, as with many things if it hasn't been done already, it must be shite. I'll get around to testing my idea sooner or later.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
polymath said:
if one were to use a fogger/nebulizer/humidifier that DID indeed make fine (<5 micron) droplets, but it was working in a res that was disconnected from the root chamber, wouldn't a high powered fan pumping the mist into the root chamber combine many of these small droplets into larger ones (5+5=10 type stuff.......), either in the air, or afterwards on the roots??

i see more of a problem when the droplets exceed 55 microns, which seems would happen more frequently if your mister was pumping out at that size because i feel the droplets will always be colliding and growing, especially given the size of the chambers we are working with...

i am not trying to discount the hailed true aeroponic environment, but my basic skills in arithmetic (no ged required) would lead me to believe that a chaotic environment with many small particles would always lead to an environment with less droplets than created (i.e. combinations of many droplets)

help?
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I actually fan in the fog from a seperate res as you say- the variable you left out was evaporation. The droplets shrink as time goes by. Under 5 microns is just too small apparently. The mist can coalesce on the roots and recombine into larger drops I suppose, and that is the angle I am trying to work. But it's such a fine line between not enough, and getting them dripping wet I don't know if it's worth the efforts. All I can say is with the fogger in a seperate res blowing the fog in, and working out the cycle times probably lies the working answer- if it ever could work in the first place, which is a very slim chance.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
I'm kinda on board with what you're saying, aside from the nebulizer. A fan could work as long as it didn't stay on long enough to dry the roots. I like the idea of some sort of diaphragm moving back & forth to create turbulence in the chamber, like a sub woofer... I've not really had much feedback here, as with many things if it hasn't been done already, it must be shite. I'll get around to testing my idea sooner or later.
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I'm always open to new ideas Mike- love to see you test it. I would myself, but I am already playing around with so much of my own far out ideas lol...
 
polymath

polymath

Member
Trichy Bastard said:
I actually fan in the fog from a seperate res as you say- the variable you left out was evaporation. The droplets shrink as time goes by. Under 5 microns is just too small apparently. The mist can coalesce on the roots and recombine into larger drops I suppose, and that is the angle I am trying to work. But it's such a fine line between not enough, and getting them dripping wet I don't know if it's worth the efforts. All I can say is with the fogger in a seperate res blowing the fog in, and working out the cycle times probably lies the working answer- if it ever could work in the first place, which is a very slim chance.
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so with evaporation and coalescing of droplets, the shit gets more and more complex. anything from angle of mist head, velocity of fan, temp of res and root chamber, etc etc muthafuckin etc, it might be better to just run a compressor to pump nutes from res to mounted mist heads within the root chamber yeah?

the closer the head it to the root system, the less time for evap and less time for coalescing.
the further away, who knows what is happening to your particle size, you may as well be doing hybrid hydro or some shit, UNLESS your feeding schedule is super fucking dialed in and on point.....

i want to be growing as efficiently as possible, from water usage, to nute usage, to power consumption (LEDs), and aero will and can do this..... just need to find the optimal/simplest way to atomize .........
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
polymath said:
so with evaporation and coalescing of droplets, the shit gets more and more complex. anything from angle of mist head, velocity of fan, temp of res and root chamber, etc etc muthafuckin etc, it might be better to just run a compressor to pump nutes from res to mounted mist heads within the root chamber yeah?

the closer the head it to the root system, the less time for evap and less time for coalescing.
the further away, who knows what is happening to your particle size, you may as well be doing hybrid hydro or some shit, UNLESS your feeding schedule is super fucking dialed in and on point.....

i want to be growing as efficiently as possible, from water usage, to nute usage, to power consumption (LEDs), and aero will and can do this..... just need to find the optimal/simplest way to atomize .........
Click to expand...
Some distance is good, as you dont want to directly mist the roots as much as create a fog in the chamber that floats around. A decent chamber size is important to let the mist mix around and spread out evenly before striking something and condensating. The 30-80 micron size we strive for in HPA and AA is adequate for all of this. We already have it laid out for you if you wanna big reading assigment in the HP aero threads. There's no way around the reading however- unless you want to forego years of cumulative experiences and start from scratch on your own. You'll have to understand the underlying principles as they are quite different than LP aero or anything else you'd consider traditional thinking on growing methods. Matter of fact one of the big hurdles is letting go of your low pressure aero mindset... ;)
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
polymath said:
bongsmilietime to get reading...

any favorite threads?
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I have a thread here called "true hp aero for 2011" it's a good start, because it's just really an accumulation of all the original threads. The first 100 pages or so point you in all the directions of the good ones like tree farmers and g-loves and cover all the basic theory and design, even partslists and places to buy are in there. LOTS of reading ahead, but it's actually alot of fun reading imo...
 
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aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
TB, Thanks for keeping the info flowing on the thread, Atomizer and Mike its good to see you guys around here as well. My system is shut down for the blasted brutal summer so I wont have much to offer for the next few months (it could be argued whether I'll have anything to offer next season though). Either way, good to see you guys here. Ill try to check in more often.
 
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aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
Cool rig, I actually have everything I need (more or less) to build a complete aquaponics system. I would really like to dive into it but Ive got too much going on in the summertime. We eat a lot of fish and seafood and my wife likes to shop at whole foods so it gets a bit expensive. I figure if I can build the system she can go fishing instead. Of course she would also need to gutem.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
aerojunkie said:
Cool rig, I actually have everything I need (more or less) to build a complete aquaponics system. I would really like to dive into it but Ive got too much going on in the summertime. We eat a lot of fish and seafood and my wife likes to shop at whole foods so it gets a bit expensive. I figure if I can build the system she can go fishing instead. Of course she would also need to gutem.
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Where you live, I wouldn't even dare trying the fish normally, but thanks to Wholefoods I bet your enjoying fish nearly as fresh as I get in Hawaii. I watched a special on it, and often @ WF it gets to the store display in less than 24 hours- worth the price. One thing I learned about fish since living in the middle of the ocean, is fresh fish doesn't taste "fishy"- the fishyness is a sign of aging... ;) I Don't eat a ton of fish due to the mercury (one 6oz filet of Ahi tuna now includes 1.5 weeks of maximum mercury content per FDA guidelines on average) but when I do, it's often raw and just out of the clean oceans here... I've been eating Krill oil capsules to get my omega 3's and they have definitely had a positive effect on inflammation. Sorry for rambling off topic :D
 
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aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
When I lived in HI I had a roommate who was a chef in Thailand. We would bring the fish home gutted an he would filet them and prep 3-4 different meals from a couple of parrot fish. He would also do octopus, crab, and lobster. We spearfished at night at least 1-2 times a week. It was awesome. My wife is a seafood connoisseur who can make some wicked (in a good way) dishes. I rarely pitch a fit when price is mentioned, except for the 20.00/lb halibut she wanted to try about a month ago. I had to put my foot down on that one. All said and done, I have never had a disappointing dish made from whole foods fish. Believe it or not I still spearfish the local lake and have a fish fry every now and then. Catfish, large mouth, strippers, tilapia and occasionally trout, still make appearances on my plate.
 
Glider

Glider

Member
So Aerojunkie were where you before I spent big bucks on misting nozzles and building a 80 psi spraying setup that constainly leaks and who's micron size is questionalbly 80 mircrons. Before I switch over to air assisted have you an information or used nozzles form BETE? I am attaching their specs
Capture.JPGXAan spray nozzle.JPG
 
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