Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect

Please PM or post that read when you get a chance HB . Very curious. Do you have the PH perfect Connoisseur or the original? Maybe the newer version they axed most of the urea. The original Sensi had some and ,because I grew in coco, i supplemented with an organic grow formula to process the urea. Grew great. Have you tried growing in coco instead of peat? The great thing about coco is it's re-useable. 3 grows!!. great ph buffer and earth friendly. (not that I'm a hard-core greeny or anything)

Edit: I read your Conn-Dyno WWF cage fight and I have 1 question: Why did you let the Conn fry when you knew clawing and tip burn meant over-fert?. AN does not boast the CONN formula as plug and play. It specifically states you have to read your plant and adjust accordingly, that is why it is the grand masturbator . I'm not defending the product in any way, in fact I think it is a rip-off also. However, I think your variance to the suggested program ended up as a detriment to the final yield. Feeding them 0-10-10 boost from another vendor didn't do well for impartiality either. How did the root zone look? Your overall tone throughout the experiment seemed ostensibly biased toward Dyno from the get go. Overall I am not convinced on which nute is better based on this standoff. Hats off to you for doing it , I'm just telling you my opinion. No hate here at all. I wish I had the tenacity do something like that.

patlpp said:

Please PM or post that read when you get a chance HB . Very curious. Do you have the PH perfect Connoisseur or the original? Maybe the newer version they axed most of the urea. The original Sensi had some and ,because I grew in coco, i supplemented with an organic grow formula to process the urea. Grew great. Have you tried growing in coco instead of peat? The great thing about coco is it's re-useable. 3 grows!!. great ph buffer and earth friendly. (not that I'm a hard-core greeny or anything)

Edit: I read your Conn-Dyno WWF cage fight and I have 1 question: Why did you let the Conn fry when you knew clawing and tip burn meant over-fert?. AN does not boast the CONN formula as plug and play. It specifically states you have to read your plant and adjust accordingly, that is why it is the grand masturbator . I'm not defending the product in any way, in fact I think it is a rip-off also. However, I think your variance to the suggested program ended up as a detriment to the final yield.

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Maybe you read the journal and missed the details. I run my base nutes under 1.0 EC, do you understand how conservative that is in regards to suggested feeding rates out there? Have you seen the feeding scale on the back of the Connoisseur bottles? The pictures in my next post speak volumes about the plant foods I've used over the years, so why did Connoisseur do so poorly? I was eluding to it above in pointing to Connoisseur's cheap 'other water soluble nitrogen' ingredient but once thought it was the proportionately high nitrogen value in Connoisseur's NPK ratio. Aqua Flakes actually supplies MORE nitrogen but they're not using inexpensive sources and that is apparent in the overall health of the plants.

I have a vested interest in doing as well as I can at all times regardless of what plant food i'm using. In the Connoisseur grow, I pulled out all the stops in regards to keeping those plants healthy. I lowered the feeding levels, I changed boosters, I even tweaked the base:booster ratio. The 'issues' that came up due to their poor sources of nitrogen didn't show up until about the 6th week and even up to that point, it was very clear that Connoisseur was a below average plant food. I welcome you to run Connoisseur (the exact same one I ran) in your own hydroponic flood tables with rockwool and document it here. I'll be the first to follow along.

Feeding them 0-10-10 boost from another vendor didn't do well for impartiality either. How did the root zone look?

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To the plant in a hydroponic environment, 0-10-10 is the same as a 1-5-4 which is the NPK content of Overdrive. If one thinks actually using Overdrive instead a hydroplex or a kool bloom would have yielded different results, I'd say someone needs to go back and study their salts. In regards to the roots, I don't remember exactly how they looked but I have never had a root issue, ever. I actually find all those root products at the hydro store funny as I seem to have the exact opposite issue; overly prolific root growth each and every round.

Your overall tone throughout the experiment seemed ostensibly biased toward Dyno from the get go.

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That may actually be true but then again, Connoisseur was inferior to DynaGro in just about every single metric. DynaGro was pH stable, Connoisseur wasn't. Connoisseur costs more than DynaGro and is substantially less concentrated too. Being that Connoisseur wasn't pH stable and the nitrogen sources caused some issues later in the grow, Connoisseur required more daily maintenance and troubleshooting. Since switching to DynaGro almost 2 years ago, the terms Daily Maintenance and Troubleshooting aren't even in my vocabulary. It was also clear early on (as early as week 2) that Connoisseur would not be able to compete with DynaGro so sure, my tone could have been that of bias, or just plain disappointment. How would you like to normally yield 20 ounces and realize early on that you're going to have to work really hard only to pull a measly 16 and it's costing you more to do so?

I'm currently testing H&G's Aqua Flakes and am 'journaling' that with people following along. I think Kite might be the only one in this thread with access to that grow but feel free to ask him what the tone of that comparison is like. I'm sure he'll say that the tone is a positive one because Aqua Flakes is doing really well and it's a pleasure to work with.

Overall I am not convinced on which nute is better based on this standoff.

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The info is there, you can do what you want with it. I will add that before I started running DynaGro, I was a GH guy and my first time ever using DG is documented in a journal in my signature. As much as I loved my GH 3-part, DynaGro wound up being the clear winner and I switched to DG immediately after that journal. Guess what, if Aqua Flakes pumps out 23 ounces from this current test, you won't see me using DynaGro anymore. Point is, my loyalty to a plant food brand is based on the actual performance, not a colorful label or marketing claims.

Someone else conducted a DynaGro vs Connoisseur test on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Dpx0K3WE0

I believe he was growing in promix and it was a tie in the end. So what does that say about the 'Grand Masturbator' of all plant foods? It only yields as well as a 30 year old Orchid food that costs 1/3 as much to use.

Patlpp, you mentioned your bottles are different than mine, here is a picture of mine showing lots of low cost nitrogen and they claim the formula has never changed (the arrow on part B is where I was feeding):



On to the plants. These are photos of plants around 60 days of flowering and as you can see, the only ones that look awful are the Ak47 ladies grown with AN's Connoisseur. Except for the GH girls, these plants were all being fed at the same levels. Different plant food brands, different strains, identical environment, the results speak for themselves.

Again, conduct your own Connoisseur test in hydro and document it in a journal, I'd love to see your results.

AK47 grown with DynaGro, day 57 (yielded 21 ounces):



My Purple Strain grown with GH, day 57 (yielded over 20 ounces):




AK47 grown with Connoisseur, day 63 (yielded 16 ounces exactly):




Dumpster grown with H&G's Aqua Flakes (current test) at day 49 today (yield ???):

homebrewer said:

Patlpp, you mentioned your bottles are different than mine, here is a picture of mine showing lots of low cost nitrogen and they claim the formula has never changed (the arrow on part B is where I was feeding):



On to the plants. These are photos of plants around 60 days of flowering and as you can see, the only ones that look awful are the Ak47 ladies grown with AN's Connoisseur. Except for the GH girls, these plants were all being fed at the same levels. Different plant food brands, different strains, identical environment, the results speak for themselves.

Again, conduct your own Connoisseur test in hydro and document it in a journal, I'd love to see your results.

AK47 grown with DynaGro, day 57 (yielded 21 ounces):



My Purple Strain grown with GH, day 57 (yielded over 20 ounces):




AK47 grown with Connoisseur, day 63 (yielded 16 ounces exactly):




Dumpster grown with H&G's Aqua Flakes (current test) at day 49 today (yield ???):

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Wow. I really need to give Conni a try one of these days.

patlpp said:

Holy Bejesus. I don't think Ive seen trichs like that..look at them, they are splattered so thick on the veins. It's disgusting you dick! LOL. Is that just conno or the whole lineup?

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thanks patlpp. that's conni, rhino skin, sensizyme, and overdrive for the last couple weeks. plus a little botanicare cal/mag plus as needed.

Sensibowl said:

Wow. I really need to give Conni a try one of these days.

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Absolutely! If you're looking to spend a lot of money on watered-down plant food that wrecks your plants in hydro, Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur is definitely the one I'd recommend for you.

I've run Conni in both soil and hydro. I've run it in coco and hydroton. Never had a problem with it. Just takes an experienced grower to know how to use it. It's not for rookies or guys who don't understand how to read their plants or ppm's.

homebrewer said:

Absolutely! If you're looking to spend a lot of money on watered-down plant food that wrecks your plants in hydro, Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur is definitely the one I'd recommend for you.

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I think the label mishap is that you have the old Conn and we are referring to the new Conn. HB, in all seriousness , do you really think Advanced would let a product out that produced a product such as the one you grew? You did something wrong and that wrong was you kept feeding @ maximum with the 0-10-10 GH booster. It was not an impartial test to say the least IMO. If you deviate from the recommended schedule than the experiment is null and void. You overfed those girls IMO . Scoobies grow is awesome don't you think? He read his girls just as you do with Dyno.

patlpp said:

I think the label mishap is that you have the old Conn and we are referring to the new Conn. HB, in all seriousness , do you really think Advanced would let a product out that produced a product such as the one you grew? You did something wrong and that wrong was you kept feeding @ maximum with the 0-10-10 GH booster. It was not an impartial test to say the least IMO. If you deviate from the recommended schedule than the experiment is null and void. You overfed those girls IMO . Scoobies grow is awesome don't you think? He read his girls just as you do with Dyno.

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great post this is the truth right here!

patlpp said:

I think the label mishap is that you have the old Conn and we are referring to the new Conn.

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AN has never changed their formula, call them and ask.

HB, in all seriousness ,do you really think Advanced would let a product out that produced a product such as the one you grew?

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Three out of four plant foods yielded excellent results, why is it hard for you to understand that AN sells cheap, watered-down, incomplete plant food? Please link me to a hydroponic grow journal where Connoisseur is being used.

You did something wrong and that wrong was you kept feeding @ maximum with the 0-10-10 GH booster.

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Please tell me exactly how much koolbloom I was using and link me to that info in my journal.

It was not an impartial test to say the least IMO. If you deviate from the recommended schedule than the experiment is null and void.

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Please tell me what the 'recommended schedule' is because I find it amusing that you think a plant food company knows our plants better than we do.

You overfed those girls IMO .

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Do you grow hydroponically? How long have you been doing so? Where are your grow journals? If you think less than 1.0 EC is 'overfeeding' then this is not a conversation you're capable of understanding.

homebrewer said:

Maybe you have some insight into this; 73% of Connoisseur's nitrogen composition is Urea and Other Water Soluble nitrogen. Other than being cheap sources of N, they're fast acting with high foliar burn potential, why on Earth would they put that into a hydroponic formula? Everyone else seems to use nitrate and ammoniacal and everyone performs better in hydro.

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Your up to your antics ...AGAIN! Holy fuck you must really have a hate on for Canada and Quality Canadian products. Urea is manufactured in Canada and shipped worldwide for food production. It has quite a few more uses but for this conversation:

Advantages of Fertilizer Urea

• Urea can be applied to soil as a solid or solution or to certain crops as a foliar spray.
• Urea usage involves little or no fire or explosion hazard.
• Urea's high analysis, 46% N, helps reduce handling, storage and transportation costs over other dry N forms.
• Urea manufacture releases few pollutants to the environment.
• Urea, when properly applied, results in crop yield increases equal to other forms of nitrogen.

It is used to produce food for the world, has a smaller footprint on our enviorment and has proven to be an excellent source of nitrogen, so why would a company producing high quality products not use it? Because you can't grow with it? Give your head a shake, Ive seen your pics... you should look into learning the basics before thinkong your all that on a subject your so bias about.

And just to let you know, if you don't know already. Urea is easier to uptake and that is why people like you can't use these products. With quality products the plants grow at a faster rate and you need to keep up or buy a less effective product.

homebrewer said:

AN has never changed their formula, call them and ask.

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I know of 5 formula changes in the last 3 years! They are constantly doing lab studies and manipulating formula's, so do all other companies

BIAS BULLSHIT!

homebrewer said:

Three out of four plant foods yielded excellent results, why is it hard for you to understand that AN sells cheap, watered-down, incomplete plant food? Please link me to a hydroponic grow journal where Connoisseur is being used.

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Why is it hard to understand? Well lets see....1 pound plants....no problems to speak of.... costs less then most to use correctly....and their Canadian. The best of everything is still produced in Canada from Cars to Cannabis. You already know this you bias Knob!

Its fine you don't like or can't seem to get a handle on a product meant to make things easier. I just don't understand your point of view? You come on here spout total bullshit to do what? Help people? No! Does it make you feel better pointing people in the wrong direction? Do you work for a rival company? Did you get dropped on your head when you were a kid?


Whatever the reason STOP IT! You don't like it, fine. Other people do and for good reason, YOU on the other hand, full of yourself and bias....Ya I'm gonna listen to you!


Right!

patlpp said:

degraded into insults. You are a fraud. Can't hold a professional conversation. Ego gets in the way. Indicative of a person incapable of team play (do you argue much at work?) . Oh so I need to show you a pik of my dick to prove I know what the fuck im talking about?

1) it's called PH perfect . Look on the web site and you will see the proportions are different than what you are using and shown on your label.
http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/products/connoisseur/connoisseur_faq_nutrient_facts.php

2) I leached salts from the rockwool this evening for 2 hours and changed out the res to some fresh water and nutrients. As I was looking at the comparison pictures that I posted earlier, I realized that things are not going to get any better for connoisseur from a performance perspective as I think DG is clearly ahead. I, on the other hand, have a vested interest in yielding as well as I can for my patients and cannot afford to sacrifice a few ounces at the end of this grow just to solidify what is obviously already happening. So at the res change tonight, I subbed in 200ppms of Liquid KoolBloom (0-10-10) as I think Connoisseur needs the help. This is a simple PK booster like an Overdrive or what-have-you which nets something like a 1-1.5-2.5 final NPK ratio. This is still in line with Fat Mike's theory that cannabis needs a lot more potassium than phosphorus so hopefully the use of KoolBloom will keep things closer and maybe more accurately demonstrate the yields that could be expected when using a common combination of AN products.

Post 92

Who the fuck said to do that? On top of that you added a silicon supp also which further fucked up the proportions. AN uses Rhino, which is NOT a 0-0-3 or similar .You stated it was your judgement that compelled you to feed the GH booster , which was flawed. You think?

3) recommend 4ml/l base nute and leave it the fuck alone!! The fact that you took something upon yourself in the experiment renders it NULL AND VOID. The directions on the web site say you have to read the plant and adjust accordingly, not add some bullshit 3rd party sup.

4) I do grow hydro , been growing off and on for 15 years. Get your fucking nose out of the air, others grow much better dank than you. Scooby owns you. Explain why his are kick-ass and yours are not?


Again, you showed the shittiest grow one can possibly do with Conn. You fucked up. Scooby did not. nuf said.

PS 1 ec of the wrong proportions, just as you advocate, can fuck a plant up also, enough to claw anyways. If you are going to do a comparison, at least see it all the way through instead of "for the interest of the patients". ANyways, Conn calls for more nutes than you supplied, so why didn't you do so ? (without your JUDGEMENTS of adding your own crap)

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that's fucking AWESOME!!!! way to go patlpp. love the fact you found that post of HB's. don't know how this guy says that AN hasn't changed their formula. lol. he's just so biased about the company and their products and believes that he is the best grower EVER so anyone that disagrees with him must be an idiot. guys like that never succeed.

The conversation with you guys constantly goes in circles, it's like you're not even reading my my posts (RE: other water soluble nitrogen and how it's a shitty source of N for hydro). That, or you just don't want to admit that Advanced makes some of the most incomplete, watered-down fertilizer on the market. When it comes to getting ripped-off, the truth hurts I suppose. Three out of four plant foods fed at the exact same rate with the same 'base:booster:silica' ratio yielded excellent results, why didn't Connoisseur? Do I need to point out it's missing 9 essential elements? There are plant foods sold at Kmart that are more compete than that .

I appriciate the 'stimulating' conversation but really this is just the peanut gallery blaming the referee for the loss of their favorite team. News flash, your favorite team sucks and anyone with a half a brain could determine that by looking at the Guaranteed Analysis.

I think you guys just inspired my next comparison grow; AN's pH Perfect Sensi Bloom vs H&G's Aqua Flakes, or something like that. Whatever I call it, I doubt Sensi is going to look all that appealing when I look at things like pH stability, salt build up, plant performance, plant health, nutrient concentration levels, cost, and of course final yield.

I've got the girls in veg right now, look for it in 3 weeks or so .

at this point i don't think i would trust any journal that HB puts up. i don't know about you guys but this whole thing looks suspicious to me. anyone who posts that much about how 1 nutrient company sucks has to have an alterior motive. i mean, there are plenty of products i hate but i don't spend my life on the internet bashing them. i just move on, and if someone asks me my opinion i'll tell them and leave it at that. HB on the other hand looks for EVERY advanced thread on this forum and then starts talking shit about the product and talking down to the guys using it. that comes off as odd to me.

that's not even the most compelling part. why does he openly lie about the products? does he think we are all so stupid that we can't find out these things for ourselves? he has stated that Dyna is 80% more concentrated and we proved that to be false. he has stated that the source materials of AN are not quality and we have proved that to be false. he has stated that AN uses 73% urea nitrogen and we've proven that to be false. now he states that AN is missing 9 elements. wow. i can only say that is false as well. a simple website search or call to AN would disprove that statement by HB as well.

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:

at this point i don't think i would trust any journal that HB puts up. i don't know about you guys but this whole thing looks suspicious to me. anyone who posts that much about how 1 nutrient company sucks has to have an alterior motive. i mean, there are plenty of products i hate but i don't spend my life on the internet bashing them. i just move on, and if someone asks me my opinion i'll tell them and leave it at that. HB on the other hand looks for EVERY advanced thread on this forum and then starts talking shit about the product and talking down to the guys using it. that comes off as odd to me.

that's not even the most compelling part. why does he openly lie about the products? does he think we are all so stupid that we can't find out these things for ourselves? he has stated that Dyna is 80% more concentrated and we proved that to be false. he has stated that the source materials of AN are not quality and we have proved that to be false. he has stated that AN uses 73% urea nitrogen and we've proven that to be false. now he states that AN is missing 9 elements. wow. i can only say that is false as well. a simple website search or call to AN would disprove that statement by HB as well.

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scooby you keep taking the words right outta my mouth. i would never believe any comparison this guy did in the future he's been way too biased and knowing him he would probably sabotage the grow to get the results he wanted. im all set lol

I'll respond to the quote since it's quoted.

It takes less DynaGro and H&G to get to a certain EC, that means those plant foods are MORE concentrated. That's not a hard concept to understand and if you want to measure it yourself, well, go ahead and post your results with pictures but who would believe someone with 4 accounts and 50 posts per day?

AN's Connoisseur contains 25% nitrate with the rest being urea (~20%) and other water soluble nitrogen (~55%). That means close to 75% of Connoisseur's nitrogen composition is composed of cheap sources of N which no one else in the industry uses in their hydroponic formulas. Everyone else is using nitrate and ammoniacal nitrogen and do so for a good reason, do your homework newbs.

As far as Connoisseur containing only 7 out of 16 essential elements, look it up:

http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=22456

http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=22457 Sensi still contains urea and other water soluble N but nitrate makes up most of the content. I doubt Sensi wrecks plants as bad as Connoisseur in HYDRO but that's not all we'll be looking at. This should be fun folks, hold on for a ride!

just because you say they are "cheap" homebrewer doesn't actually mean that they are. everything i've read about urea nitrogen says that it is a quality form of nitrogen for plants. none the less, if you check the bottles of conni that WE are all talking about then you will see that there is no where near 73% urea nitrogen.

if you pay $50 for a gallon of 1 part nutrient and i pay $50 for a gallon each of 2 part nutrient then you got 1 gallon of nutrients for $50 and i got 2 gallons for $50. now, say you have to add 10ml of your nutrient to get 1000ppm and i have to add 10ml of part A and 10ml of part B to get 1000ppm. won't our nutrients run out at the same time and essentially we both paid the same for nutrients? i don't understand how you don't get this. with sensi and connisseur i am getting twice as many nutes as you. on top of that my nutes are more concentrated when added together. so in reality you are adding 10ml and i am adding 7ml of A and 7ml of B. therefore my two bottles of nutes for $50 will last longer than your 1 bottle for $50.

before you went on an on about how you couldn't grow plants with AN. now all of a sudden you change your tune to you can't grow hydro with AN. what's gonna be next...you can't grow AK47 with AN?

HB, the correct labeling for Conn is on the web site. Instead of looking at the label on the first page for Conn, click-on "nutrient info" to the right. I have attached the proper label.


View attachment 2227027

some pics for you boys to enjoy. you know the stats and the nutes i used. my product speaks for itself. these are all 1 plant. 3 more left to finish. looks like it's gonna be about 5 zips per plant. we'll see. if so then i will get about 1gpw.

patlpp said:

Well since the Dyno bottles say 7-9-5 compared to a 4-1-2 or whatever ...no shit. The numbers are the percentage of element by weight. (Insert Carlos Mencia DEE-TEE-DEE here) I have 4 accounts and post 50 times a day?

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he's talking about me. he says i have a bunch of ghost accounts. basically anyone that comes on here and agrees with me or disagrees with him about AN is a ghost account of mine. he honestly believes that only 1 person (me) in the whole world would dare disagree with him. he did the same thing to sir ganja. accused him of being me forever. and apparently my post count has something to do with my growing ability. who knows.