A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions

IAm5toned said:

umm... no. dont do this, it will probably fry the ballast and the cooltube.

you need to intercept the power BEFORE it hits the ballast. try a simple power strip, there cheaper than insurance deductibles
for house fires!

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I don't understand. If for whatever reason the light socket on your reflector broke would you not just wire a new one on? Im basically replacing my light socket with a cool tube and socket connecting it to my ballast with the same wires that were putting power to my old socket. I don't know seems like it would work to me. Can you explain so i can understand

hey whats it ment by "jump the meter" or something

and also i have read in a book "KOG a grower lot" that there is a way to rig your meter box have u heard of it if so how do they do this

thanks mate sorry to bust balls

I've never dealt with electricity before. I'm currently building in my grow room, and I would like to provide sufficient amount of power. As all growers, my worst nightmare is a fire, and any information that you could provide to prevent this, would be wonderful.

My home was built in the last 2 years, and I have a hidden storage room(now my grow room), that I would like to run power to. There are electricity lines in the storage room that are stapled to the studs that are for an adjacent room. My grow room is located really far away from my circuit breaker, and I would prefer to not have to run additional lines. I would prefer to tap into what's already installed.

I need enough wattage/voltage, or whatever it's called to power:

2 600W HPS Ballasts & Bulbs.
1 Portable AC Unit
2 AeroFlo 36 Site Aeroponic System (Just 2 600GPH Pump)
1 Humidifier
1 747 CFM Can Fan

I have purchased the Sentinel CHHC-1 which is an environmental controller to manage lights, CO2, Temperature & humidity. I have also purchased the Extension PMX to handle a 240V device. I don't think I have any 240V devices, but the expansion bay allows me to "hook up more powerful/additional equipment". On the other side of the attic, there is a power outlet that I would like to plug a 20-30ft HEAVY DUTY extension cord into to power my equipment. Is this acceptable? Thank you in advance for your time.

sorry guys i was uh... kidnapped by aliens yesterday and couldnt get to a comp... luckily for you i am a badass and stole there ship so now im back...

notoriousb said:

ha well shiiit. I would like to have an outlet right there in my room but I also found another outlet on the other side of my house I could run an extension cord from.

I just don't get why there's 3 of each color in the box. and then unsure of which ones to select to go into the actual outlet, help!

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120vac 20amp Single Phase 3-wire circuit consists of the following:

the UNGROUNDED conductor, or 'hot' leg. this wire is always black, red, or blue in what we call a single phase system. this is the wire that will shock the hell out of you and make nice fireworks. dont confuse this wire with a (+). the polarity reverses 60 times a second. this is what the 60hz means.... that is also the nasty tingle you feel when you get shocked.

the GROUNDED conductor. this wire is normally white or gray or marked white. this wire provides a path to ground to complete the 120v circuit. without this wire your 120v device will not work. for examples sake, think of it like a 'common' like you find in a car or 12v dc system. but be warned, this wire can also shock the everliving shit out of you. many electricians think the worst shock comes from a neutral, and from my own experience, i can say this with no bullshit, i would rather take that hot wire and shove it into my bellybutton than get in between a neutral and ground... it really hurts, lol... has to do with the type of power your getting shocked by and im not going to go into tech details.. just trust me on this one guys.


the equipment GROUNDING conductor, or ground. this wire is ALWAYS green, marked green, or bare (no insulation). this wire is probably the most important of the three, and often the most neglected. this wire provides a safe, controlled path to ground for fault current when bad things happen. think of it as the 'lightning rod' for your circuit. not only does this wire protect the equipment connected, it also provides the ability for your circuit breaker or fuse to trip every time... without it there is no guarantee that the power will shut if if you say, accidentally short out the hot wire to say, the frame of your clone cabinet. here you come along to check on the babies and zap! you get electricuted... and since the breaker doesnt trip, you get hit pretty good.

85% of all deaths from 120vac electrical shock in the united states are caused by contact with ungrounded equipment that has become energized. think about that.


ps- the black wire goes to the brass (yellow) screw. the white wire goes to the steel (silver) screw, and the ground goes to the green screw. theres no other way make jumpers (we call 'em pigtails or stingers) from the 3 wires under each wirenut to feed the plug. you can even find wirenuts that have the jumpers built in... made by Ideal, they are called 'Term-a-Nuts). a little pricey, they make adding a plug about as simple as it gets ::

IAm5toned said:

120vac 20amp Single Phase 3-wire circuit consists of the following:

the UNGROUNDED conductor, or 'hot' leg. this wire is always black, red, or blue in what we call a single phase system. this is the wire that will shock the hell out of you and make nice fireworks. dont confuse this wire with a (+). the polarity reverses 60 times a second. this is what the 60hz means.... that is also the nasty tingle you feel when you get shocked.

the GROUNDED conductor. this wire is normally white or gray or marked white. this wire provides a path to ground to complete the 120v circuit. without this wire your 120v device will not work. for examples sake, think of it like a 'common' like you find in a car or 12v dc system. but be warned, this wire can also shock the everliving shit out of you. many electricians think the worst shock comes from a neutral, and from my own experience, i can say this with no bullshit, i would rather take that hot wire and shove it into my bellybutton than get in between a neutral and ground... it really hurts, lol... has to do with the type of power your getting shocked by and im not going to go into tech details.. just trust me on this one guys.


the equipment GROUNDING conductor, or ground. this wire is ALWAYS green, marked green, or bare (no insulation). this wire is probably the most important of the three, and often the most neglected. this wire provides a safe, controlled path to ground for fault current when bad things happen. think of it as the 'lightning rod' for your circuit. not only does this wire protect the equipment connected, it also provides the ability for your circuit breaker or fuse to trip every time... without it there is no guarantee that the power will shut if if you say, accidentally short out the hot wire to say, the frame of your clone cabinet. here you come along to check on the babies and zap! you get electricuted... and since the breaker doesnt trip, you get hit pretty good.

85% of all deaths from 120vac electrical shock in the united states are caused by contact with ungrounded equipment that has become energized. think about that.

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very good and detailed info

so I think I'm going to put an outlet in there so I would:
1. turn off the breaker
2. unscrew the wire nuts
3. attach one of each wire to the designated screws on the outlet

but there's 3 of each color in each nut ie: 3 neuts in one nut, 3 hots in one nut, and 3 grounds in one nut.
so I'd leave the other 2 wires in the wire nuts after attaching the main line's wires to the outlet yea? pretty sure that's what I do

Downfoemythang said:

Thanks for the link. The only thing I can tell you about the fans is that they run on 25 amp blade fuses, so my guess is that they pull up to 25 amps. I have a jumper/booster pack that'll start your car when the battery is dead, if I connect + & - from the booster to the fans and turn it on they put out alot of air. Only thing is with the link you sent me, I dont know what the hell Im looking at. Or which one of those I may need.

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it will wear out the booster over time... it is designed as what we call a "non-continuous duty load" in other words, even though it puts out some serious amperage, it can only do so for short periods of time. hooking up a continuous linear load such as a motor will overwhelm the capacitors in the booster/charger and cause it too heat up... which will decrease the efficiency in a rate proportionate to the load... which causes built in thermal overload devices to burn up. bye bye charger. in non-geekspeak that means the more power you pull, the shorter its gonna last.... you can try it, but id hate to see you lose a good charger. they sure are handy... what you need is this:
http://www.colacinoelectric.com/P/9864
or this:
http://www.shopwiki.com/_Tripp+Lite+PR25+25-Amp+DC+Power+Supply+120VAC+Input+to+13.8VDC+Output?o=1015243913&s=3885&

if you look at the prices you might want to consider what i said about the cheap wal mart box fans... all u gotta do is plug it in, and u could probably get 10 fans for the price of 1 power supply that is big enough for what you need.
another thing to consider is this: even though the fans are 12v and what we would call low voltage, its not going to save you any cash on your power bill. a watt, is a watt, is a watt, is what we say in the trade, regardless of the voltage the power company is going to bill you for it. as a matter of fact, since the fans you have are 12v, there gonna use alot of power.. 300watts per fan to be exact. compare that to the box fan that uses only 43w! its up to you, but myself, i would put the car fans on ebay, make a buck off of em instead spending 100's.

POLARIS01 said:

I want to plug 2 400w hps , 1 425cfm inline fan , 1 oscillating fan to a power strip then in to 1 timer. what would be the amps of these? is it to much? I do have one open breaker in my box, should i run this on one breaker or don't worry about it?

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i need to know the wattage of the inline fan and oscillating fan. also the voltage of the plug. its going to be close... always rate power by wattage, never amperage. amperage has nothing to do with power consumption, and everything to do with the amount of electrons physically moving on the wire

Hey bud, how do i safely install a breaker in my panel and run wire to the power board i have.... what im going to be running off that power board is:


2 ( 1000) watts lights
1 ( 600) watt light
a small ac or possibly cold cat( if cold cat then i add dehumidifer)
fans & pumps
and possibly a co2 genorator
vortex inline fan

I may add anohter 2 lights in the future and would like the breaker to be large engouh to carry that load as well.

so based on that what size breaker and wire would u reccomend i run to the powerboard.

A note that may be of importance is my place is 100amp service... with my stove and dryer connect to it..... saying that would it be safe to run my setup, dryer and stove at once or would that be to many amps for the panel?????

cheers , rep for u for helping me out......

KBkiller42 said:

I don't understand. If for whatever reason the light socket on your reflector broke would you not just wire a new one on? Im basically replacing my light socket with a cool tube and socket connecting it to my ballast with the same wires that were putting power to my old socket. I don't know seems like it would work to me. Can you explain so i can understand

Click to expand...

ok.. what does a ballast do in the first place is what you need to know, ill do my best to put a complicated idea into simple words. ballast literally means "any heavy material carried temporarily or permanently in a vessel to provide desired draft and stability.

your HID ( High Intensity Discharge) lighting system works like this:
inside the lamp there is a tiny vial of gas. the gas consists of many different types of compounds and/or elements, sometimes mercury vapor, sometimes sodium vapor, sometimes a metal halide alloy... a spark jumps through this gas to creat an ionized arc that is typically as hot as the surface of the sun (thats why the lamps get hot!) its very tiny though.

in order to achieve this your ballast creates a high voltage pulse, thats is the spark that causes the arc (no pun intended lol) this is also why many hid ballasts require starters or capiciitors. once the arc in the lamp is established and current begins to flow, the ballast switches the load to the current limiting auto transformer, to make sure only enough wattage to keep the arc established inside the lamp is flowing through the circuit... tadaa. also some lamps require pre-heating, because the gas inside it needs to heat up before it will become ionized. this is why the hid lamps have a dual element, one is a heater and the other is a starter... the ballast also controls the preheating process, once enough juice has flowed to get the pre-heating element hot enough it switches to the capicitor, which causes the arc to occur, then it switches to the transformer...
if the ballast didnt do this, since there is little or no resistance to current in an electrical arc (its literally controlled lightning on a small scale), it would quickly overheat and cause the lamp to explode in a matter on nanoseconds...

so if you tried to hook up a fan motor to the socket, when you turned on the ballast it would first send a 600v-1000v pulse to the motor, trying to heat it up and get an arc established.. and because of the way a motor works, theres no resistance to the current, it just keeps on coming forever untill a component fails. it will burn up the motor and the ballast at the same time, see what im saying?

jamesz01 said:

hey whats it ment by "jump the meter" or something

and also i have read in a book "KOG a grower lot" that there is a way to rig your meter box have u heard of it if so how do they do this

thanks mate sorry to bust balls

Click to expand...

i have no idea what your talking about. tampering with a meter box is a federal offense and a felony... at least in this country. dont try it, please. its a good way to either:
a, electrocute yourself or somebody else, this leads to authorities on the premesis...
b, cause a fire that will cause the authorities that will cause you to
c, go to jail
d, or electrocute yourself AND then burn to death, causing a housefire
e, any and all combinations of the above.

seriously dont attempt it, its not worth it just to save a penny on the dollar.

hwy420 said:

I've never dealt with electricity before. I'm currently building in my grow room, and I would like to provide sufficient amount of power. As all growers, my worst nightmare is a fire, and any information that you could provide to prevent this, would be wonderful.

My home was built in the last 2 years, and I have a hidden storage room(now my grow room), that I would like to run power to. There are electricity lines in the storage room that are stapled to the studs that are for an adjacent room. My grow room is located really far away from my circuit breaker, and I would prefer to not have to run additional lines. I would prefer to tap into what's already installed.

I need enough wattage/voltage, or whatever it's called to power:

2 600W HPS Ballasts & Bulbs.
1 Portable AC Unit
2 AeroFlo 36 Site Aeroponic System (Just 2 600GPH Pump)
1 Humidifier
1 747 CFM Can Fan

I have purchased the Sentinel CHHC-1 which is an environmental controller to manage lights, CO2, Temperature & humidity. I have also purchased the Extension PMX to handle a 240V device. I don't think I have any 240V devices, but the expansion bay allows me to "hook up more powerful/additional equipment". On the other side of the attic, there is a power outlet that I would like to plug a 20-30ft HEAVY DUTY extension cord into to power my equipment. Is this acceptable? Thank you in advance for your time.

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ok, first thing you need to find out is what those wires you want to tap into are. if you dont know, you have to make a purchase, and get whats called a 'hotstick' or a non-contact a/c voltage indicator. its a pen sized device you can get for around 20$ at home depot. when it gets close to a live circuit it lights up. so you would shut off all the breakers and have someone turn them on one at a time untill the one you want gives you a reading.... you have to know what your tying into so you dont overload an existing circuit, understand.

i need the VOLTAGE and WATTTAGE or AMPERAGE of everything you want to plug in, ie- lamps and fans and controllers.. get me this and ill tell you what you need as far as wiring and devices...

ps- as far as the 240v expander.. theres no need for it really.. creating 240v from 120v is not very effecient, and will increase the wattage, which is what you want to avoid. wattage is what you get billed for

so how can I run 40 amps worth of power 18hrs a day weed alone in these old houses with old wiring?
\
the plugs normally only allow 20-30 amps off the breaker.
/
Is there some temporary (1-3 years) way to allocate more power without using the breaker in this shitty old home.

notoriousb said:

very good and detailed info

so I think I'm going to put an outlet in there so I would:
1. turn off the breaker
2. unscrew the wire nuts
3. attach one of each wire to the designated screws on the outlet

but there's 3 of each color in each nut ie: 3 neuts in one nut, 3 hots in one nut, and 3 grounds in one nut.
so I'd leave the other 2 wires in the wire nuts after attaching the main line's wires to the outlet yea? pretty sure that's what I do

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no... what you would have is 4 wires under each wirenut... keep the existing 3 there and add one that goes directly to the plug your going to add. if the plug is not in the same box as you showed me get a nail-on box like the one in the pic for the new plug and some 12/2 romex to connect the two boxes together. 12/2 romex has a black, a white, and a bare wire, just what you need.

lifesgood said:

Hey bud, how do i safely install a breaker in my panel and run wire to the power board i have.... what im going to be running off that power board is:


2 ( 1000) watts lights
1 ( 600) watt light
a small ac or possibly cold cat( if cold cat then i add dehumidifer)
fans & pumps
and possibly a co2 genorator
vortex inline fan

I may add anohter 2 lights in the future and would like the breaker to be large engouh to carry that load as well.

so based on that what size breaker and wire would u reccomend i run to the powerboard.

A note that may be of importance is my place is 100amp service... with my stove and dryer connect to it..... saying that would it be safe to run my setup, dryer and stove at once or would that be to many amps for the panel?????

cheers , rep for u for helping me out......

Click to expand...

oh man... thats a 30amp dedicated circuit for lighting alone, another dedicated 15amp for the a/c, and probably another 2 15amp circuits for the pumps fans and generator... at least 4 seperate breakers in other words. what your looking at is not exactly a small job... you might want to buddy up with an electrician for it.

i would suggest running a single #6/3 service cable feed from your old panel to a 60amp loadcenter in the growroom. that way you will have up to 4 breakers right there in the room you need it to be in. again though this is not a job for the average do it yourselfer without some type of prior experience... and me trying to talk you through it on the forum is probably not the best idea. though i think you should be alright to have the setup and run your dryer and stove, theres alot of other things that have to run too, like water heaters, furnace/ac, the tv, any other lights you have on... you really need to see a pro in person to look at how much power your already using vs. what your going to be adding. one of the easiest ways to do this is to find an electrician in the yellowpages that does free estimates....

making 240V question.
i have a garage that has a spot i'd like to convert into a grow. in that area, the electrician put in a pair of circuits 120V that start off with GFCI outlets in the first box and they protect the next 3 boxes that have the same two circuits feeding outlets in those boxes. my question is can i take the hot leads out of the second box and make that into 240V? does having the 2- GFCI upstream of a 240v work? would it just blow the gfci?

IAm5toned said:

oh man... thats a 30amp dedicated circuit for lighting alone, another dedicated 15amp for the a/c, and probably another 2 15amp circuits for the pumps fans and generator... at least 4 seperate breakers in other words. what your looking at is not exactly a small job... you might want to buddy up with an electrician for it.

i would suggest running a single #6/3 service cable feed from your old panel to a 60amp loadcenter in the growroom. that way you will have up to 4 breakers right there in the room you need it to be in. again though this is not a job for the average do it yourselfer without some type of prior experience... and me trying to talk you through it on the forum is probably not the best idea. though i think you should be alright to have the setup and run your dryer and stove, theres alot of other things that have to run too, like water heaters, furnace/ac, the tv, any other lights you have on... you really need to see a pro in person to look at how much power your already using vs. what your going to be adding. one of the easiest ways to do this is to find an electrician in the yellowpages that does free estimates....

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4 differnet breakers?? on the power board i have 8 240v sockets and 8 120 v sockets on a timer.....

There is no way i could just run say a 40 or 60 amp breaker to control all the compentents and run a thick wire to this power board? i dont mind if it goes off for a reason or another its almost better if something breaks everything turns off , u know what i mean.....

Maybe im not understiand the electrical process correctly but thats sorta waht i had in mind.. i mean ive seen and partial set up wiring to and from the power board on larger setups and i think i understand the concept , just would need a refresher or maybe a link with pics on how to install such breakers and wires....

I do agree that an electraician would be best for this but i kinda want to learn this and to be honest what am i gonann tell him if he asks why u need this much power for ur basement in an ugly unfisnished room... i think its pretty obvious.....

billdubz785 said:

so how can I run 40 amps worth of power 18hrs a day weed alone in these old houses with old wiring?
\
the plugs normally only allow 20-30 amps off the breaker.
/
Is there some temporary (1-3 years) way to allocate more power without using the breaker in this shitty old home.

Click to expand...

you pull more than 20 amps through a plug and its gonna melt unless its a rated 30amp receptacle with at least #12 copper wire connected to it. you might want to think about that.... thats why the breaker trips, its getting hot.

im afraid about the only solutions to what your asking is to distribute the load as evenly as possible on as many different circuits you can. this can be a real pain in the ass, because in older houses all the plugs in one area are typically the same circuit... which means your limited to either buying some heavy duty cords to get to plugs in another area, or hiring a pro to run some new wire for you...

HOWEVER there are other options to consider, you can reduce the wattage of your lamps and get the proper k temp for what your trying to do. higher than 4000k for veg and lower than 3000k for flower...

cfl's are great to, considering you can have 21 42w cfl's in place of just one of those 1000w lamps, and you can get good results mixing spectrums...
i grew this with 4 cfl's in organic soil with absolutely no nutes or fertilizers:
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/239822-play-guessing-game.html

led lamps are also another good low wattage solution but are expensive as hell in my opinion and you need a few of them to do it right.

old houses with old wiring are almost always fire traps. you have to be carefull adding equipment that uses alot of wattage, as the old wires and plugs simply were not designed with todays power consumptions in mind.

TurfScience said:

making 240V question.
i have a garage that has a spot i'd like to convert into a grow. in that area, the electrician put in a pair of circuits 120V that start off with GFCI outlets in the first box and they protect the next 3 boxes that have the same two circuits feeding outlets in those boxes. my question is can i take the hot leads out of the second box and make that into 240V? does having the 2- GFCI upstream of a 240v work? would it just blow the gfci?

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oh yeah, that gfci will turn into a hand grenade if you put 240v on it... you will have to switch ALL the plugs on that circuit over to 240v receptacles, not just the gfci... trust me on that one. the 240v cords wont fit in the 120v plugs but yes, you can do that as long as you put a 2pole breaker on it, rated for the wire thats going to the plugs... you can get 30amp out of #12, but no more than 15amps out of #14

lifesgood said:

4 differnet breakers?? on the power board i have 8 240v sockets and 8 120 v sockets on a timer.....

There is no way i could just run say a 40 or 60 amp breaker to control all the compentents and run a thick wire to this power board? i dont mind if it goes off for a reason or another its almost better if something breaks everything turns off , u know what i mean.....

Maybe im not understiand the electrical process correctly but thats sorta waht i had in mind.. i mean ive seen and partial set up wiring to and from the power board on larger setups and i think i understand the concept , just would need a refresher or maybe a link with pics on how to install such breakers and wires....

I do agree that an electraician would be best for this but i kinda want to learn this and to be honest what am i gonann tell him if he asks why u need this much power for ur basement in an ugly unfisnished room... i think its pretty obvious.....

Click to expand...

tell him your gonna build a workshop....
power tools use serious power

you can run a 'thicker wire' to service all the components but if you do that, every plug you have would have to be rated @ 40amps and you just dont want to spend the money it would take to make that work out for you. what i was suggesting would be installing a 60amp breaker in the old panel, pulling a new cable for a small, 60amp panel in the grow room. in the smaller 60amp panel you can then have dedicated circuits for all the equipment, saving you alot of time, and money for long runs of wire going to your old panel. you need to be setup like this because the wire you need to carry all that power will be so big, it wont be able to connect to the plugs you want to add! for that much power your looking at a #6 cable, which is the size of a pinky finger... try fitting that under the the screws on a plug! it just wont work.... even if you somehow make it fit it will slip off in less than 6 months... if it doesnt work loose and burn before that...
like i said this one is really not a job for amatuers!

ps- also not really sure by what you meant as sockets in the old powerboard... im assuming those are breakers