5x5 closet grow using SolarStorm 880

5x5 · Apr 10, 2014

Hi everyone!

Before I start: Full Disclosure:
I am testing the SolarStorm 880 (SS880) from California Lightworks, and this is one of the journals I am using to document my grow.
Here is a link to their page for the light. There is a spec sheet at the bottom of the description if you are interested:
http://californialightworks.com/product/solar-storm-880/

Part of my motivation comes from the limited information I was able to get from the various places I looked on for actually documented grows.

California Light Works (CLW) claims this should replace a 1000w HPS light.
I'd like to put that to the test.

With the Full Disclosure out of the way, here is a brief description of my setup.

I currently have 20 Sour Diesel clones under a 600w HPS lamp, in a closet measuring 5ft by 5ft. I was planning on using one HPS to get them started, then adding another about halfway into flower (which I already have just laying around).

After totally geeking out on the latest technology and reading as much as I could stuff into a two week period, I drifted back into my previous interest in LED grow lights. The last time I was looking into them was a few years ago, when the technology was pretty new, and the lights were really expensive (like $3000 for the top of the line light, nothing near the SS880). That being said, prices have only dropped 30%, but considering how long they should last, and the savings on power, I think (or, again, full disclosure, hope) that LED's are the future of growing. Why waste all that power on heat that is just vented out of the room (requiring more electricity, or, even worse, air conditioners being run to keep it cool enough to grow)? Digital ballasts help with that a bit, but there is a fundamental lack of efficiency when it comes to HID's.

I could go on a longer rant about the environment and burning fossil fuels to generate the electricity to grow etc., etc., but we've heard that all before. Long story short, if I can use a light that produces less heat, and uses 20%-40% less electricity than its HID counterpart, I'm all about it. I save money, the environment also benefits. Ca-ching.

Here are a few photos of the ladies starting out. As you can see they are 20" tall. I just switched them to 12/12 about 3 days before the photos were taken. I have a 200cfm fan pulling through a carbon filter and venting out of the closet and into the bathroom which has a vent going to the outside. The room itself is still in the construction phase. I just started setting this up about 2 weeks ago. I put in a 220v timer yesterday, and have a box fan blowing on the plants for at least 15m/hr throughout the 24hr cycle.

Passive intake is through a HEPA filter that I screwed to the wall. On the other side I will be installing a light-tight louver, which I am still waiting on the post office to deliver.

More to come soon.

5x5 · Apr 10, 2014

P.S.
Anyone is welcome to comment, but please keep the "Woah, dude, sweet grow" comments to a minimum. It's super annoying to have to wade through 3 pages of those to get to actual, valuable information when you are searching forums for, say, LED journals to see how well they work. If you have questions or want better descriptions/more information, please feel free to ask, and I will answer when I can (probably about once a week).

UncleReemis · Apr 10, 2014

They look a little sad. Maybe overwatering? pH issues? Rootbound? Looks like overwatering to me.

bunnyfather · Apr 10, 2014

I'll be interested in your progress. I'm a huge 600w hps fan, that's all I've used for a long time. That said I've tried two led's and I wasn't very impressed. Although the last was almost 2 years ago and the first was 4; I'm sure they've improved I just haven't really looked. What are the specs on your light? Output, spectrum, depth penetration, etc...

5x5 · Apr 11, 2014

UncleReemis said:
They look a little sad. Maybe overwatering? pH issues? Rootbound? Looks like overwatering to me.

I just transplanted into 3 gal. fiber pots from 1 gal. and smaller. They were quite rootbound (to the point of getting a mg deficiency, running out of nitrogen), so I broke/loosened the roots up. Most likely they are still in a little bit of shock. The photo was taken only a couple of days after transplanting. They are already looking even better, loving the Ocean Forest soil, and room to stretch their roots out.

I'm going to trim off the bottom 1/3 of their branches/leaves this weekend, and I think I am going to give a few of these back to my friend. I was planning on doing a SOG style grow, but they are a little bit too big at this point, I think. Taking the number down to around 16 will also help me be able to actually get in there. Right now I have to pull a bunch out to get to the ones in the back.
I think next time I will start them flowering at about 8" and either stick to about 16 plants in 3 gallon containers or do 20 or so, but put them in 2 gallon containers so I have some room to walk in there if I need to. These were about 14"-16" when I flipped them to 12/12.
They have grown considerably since then, probably the new soil and the big pots.

5x5 · Apr 11, 2014

bunnyfather said:
I'll be interested in your progress. I'm a huge 600w hps fan, that's all I've used for a long time. That said I've tried two led's and I wasn't very impressed. Although the last was almost 2 years ago and the first was 4; I'm sure they've improved I just haven't really looked. What are the specs on your light? Output, spectrum, depth penetration, etc...

Check the link I posted above for the general description. Spec sheet is at the bottom of the description.
Here is a direct link to the spec sheet.
http://californialightworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/SS880_Specs.pdf

In my fantasy world, I'd have a SolarStorm 440 or SolarFlare 220 to supplement this one which I could use for veg, then pull into the flower room for the last 2-4 weeks of flowering, but I am waiting to see how this one does by itself first. According to the company, it is meant to cover a 4'x4' area for flowering, which is why I think it would be nice to have the 440 as well, increase the coverage to 5x5 and have power to spare.

It's probably gonna be a couple of cycles before that happens, though. Money's tight at the moment. Once I get the room all set up and running like a top, then maybe I can drop the money on another light.

calicat · Apr 19, 2014

Nice thread you started. Been looking into CLW led lighting. I just recently acquired a 110 watt vegmaster solar flare to play around with first. Hope to get 2 440 solarflares in near future. Good luck with your tester.

5x5 · Apr 19, 2014

calicat said:
Nice thread you started. Been looking into CLW led lighting. I just recently acquired a 110 watt vegmaster solar flare to play around with first. Hope to get 2 440 solarflares in near future. Good luck with your tester.

Thanks!
Still waiting on the light. At first I was worried about how long it was taking, but at this point, I am far enough into flower that I don't think that it would be a very good test since I have been using HID so far, and I suspect that the plants are going to end up a little too tall for LED (I got them as clones from a friend that were already over 12" tall, and this strain stretches a LOT. I have a bunch of Hashberry seeds I will be starting as soon as I get a light for the veg tent, which are pretty indica dominant, and will do a SOG with them, starting at around 8"-10"). I will still throw it in to see how it compares heat-wise to the 600W HPS. If I can bring the heat down a little bit (one HPS wasn't bad, didn't have to run the fan all the time), that would be a small savings on electricity, and probably better for the plants.

I just finally got the room into a place where I feel like I can stop messing with it. Got the temp/humidity fan controller in there, and built a homemade, manually operated light mover (I will take some pics tonight and post soon).
How do you like the 110W?
I am thinking about getting one for the veg tent I just set up. Either that, or the 220W.
My tent is small, only 20" x 30" x 60"H, so I think that the 110 would probably be sufficient, but the 220 would be nice to be able to throw into the flower room as a boost for the last month of flowering, and I could possibly use all LED for flowering that way instead of the 1HPS 1LED I was planning on doing.
I am also trying to do some research on T5 HO vs LED, and there seems to be little info on how hot the T5's actually run. If you have any experience with both, I'd love your input on which one runs warmer, electricity use of each, growth rates of the plants under each (comparable? big difference?), and which you think would be a better fit for my tent size for clones and mothers.

calicat · Apr 22, 2014

5x5 said:
Thanks!
Still waiting on the light. At first I was worried about how long it was taking, but at this point, I am far enough into flower that I don't think that it would be a very good test since I have been using HID so far, and I suspect that the plants are going to end up a little too tall for LED (I got them as clones from a friend that were already over 12" tall, and this strain stretches a LOT. I have a bunch of Hashberry seeds I will be starting as soon as I get a light for the veg tent, which are pretty indica dominant, and will do a SOG with them, starting at around 8"-10"). I will still throw it in to see how it compares heat-wise to the 600W HPS. If I can bring the heat down a little bit (one HPS wasn't bad, didn't have to run the fan all the time), that would be a small savings on electricity, and probably better for the plants.

I just finally got the room into a place where I feel like I can stop messing with it. Got the temp/humidity fan controller in there, and built a homemade, manually operated light mover (I will take some pics tonight and post soon).
How do you like the 110W?
I am thinking about getting one for the veg tent I just set up. Either that, or the 220W.
My tent is small, only 20" x 30" x 60"H, so I think that the 110 would probably be sufficient, but the 220 would be nice to be able to throw into the flower room as a boost for the last month of flowering, and I could possibly use all LED for flowering that way instead of the 1HPS 1LED I was planning on doing.
I am also trying to do some research on T5 HO vs LED, and there seems to be little info on how hot the T5's actually run. If you have any experience with both, I'd love your input on which one runs warmer, electricity use of each, growth rates of the plants under each (comparable? big difference?), and which you think would be a better fit for my tent size for clones and mothers.

Got a feasible plan good luck with that and great strain I hear. That's from mandala correct? So far I am loving the 110 watt CLW it surpasses the overall performance of the MH 400 or 600 by far in terms of electrical usage, heat generation, and actual footprint comparative to size of unit. I was using also 2 x 200 watts of t5 HO fixtures till plants got a foot then switched to MH. The T-5's can stack your nodes better because you can have it closer to your canopy. To the best of my knowledge if you have any LED fixture closer than a foot then your foliage can bleach. The heat signature of the t-5's I was running before generated more radiant heat than this 110 CLW led I am playing with now. Growth rates I could not compare honestly because I run so many strains. I would have to make a run with t-5s and or mH then the next run utilize led lighting. I never have run tents before so I could not give you accurate input concerning that.

5x5 · Apr 24, 2014

calicat said:
Got a feasible plan good luck with that and great strain I hear. That's from mandala correct? So far I am loving the 110 watt CLW it surpasses the overall performance of the MH 400 or 600 by far in terms of electrical usage, heat generation, and actual footprint comparative to size of unit. I was using also 2 x 200 watts of t5 HO fixtures till plants got a foot then switched to MH. The T-5's can stack your nodes better because you can have it closer to your canopy. To the best of my knowledge if you have any LED fixture closer than a foot then your foliage can bleach. The heat signature of the t-5's I was running before generated more radiant heat than this 110 CLW led I am playing with now. Growth rates I could not compare honestly because I run so many strains. I would have to make a run with t-5s and or mH then the next run utilize led lighting. I never have run tents before so I could not give you accurate input concerning that.

Thanks for the info. I went with a "Deformable" T5 HO (http://www.ebay.com/itm/191128974864) because of the price, mainly, and so far the heat is no problem at all. In fact, I think the seedlings would probably like it a bit warmer in there. Just saw the first little sprouts start to push their way through the soil! My favorite part of the whole process in some ways...

In terms of the T5, for those of you who are curious, this light is inexpensive, but getting it to the position you want requires a bit of work (it uses little screws and nuts that you have to tighten after getting it into the position you want), and the workmanship definitely leaves something to be desired. One of tubes shuts off every time I touch the thing, and it just feels kind of rickety and cheap. If you can afford a better quality one, you might want to go with something else. I saved myself $60 buying this thing, and I'm glad I did (it allows me to get six lamps into the 20" x 30" tent that I have instead of four, and each section of it is modular, meaning I could break off 1, 2 or 3 lamps at a later date to put over seedlings, while keeping the remaining ones over clones or mothers), but the construction leaves a bit to be desired.
So I rate this lamp:
Versatility - 10
Construction - 4
Materials - 5
Overall - 6 (I may change my mind after this run of seedlings, we'll see)

PSUAGRO. · Apr 24, 2014

Your replacing a 600w hps for a 600w+(actual draw) SS880 led in hopes of it being cooler to run?

Your gonna be disappointed

Good luck though

5x5 · Apr 24, 2014

So the SS880 is supposed to arrive any minute now.
I took some before pictures yesterday, and will post some after pictures once I have it installed.
I put in my own homemade manually operated light move that I built using channel strut, washers, bolts, and nuts, and moved the carbon filter more to the side to allow room for it to move all the way around. I just let the lights run for a full day or so and then turn them either 90 degrees or maybe 60 if the corners look like they could use more light.

5x5 · Apr 24, 2014

The SS880 arrived a couple of hours ago. I unpacked it, and it looks great. Very solidly manufactured, really heavy (40lbs/20kg, I imagine from an enormous heat sink in the top). It had a few cosmetic defects, but my guess is they sent me one that someone else doing the Grower's Feedback Program had sent back, or they were just little things that happened during the manufacturing process. My big complaint is that the 250v cord that they sent is, I'm not kidding, 3 feet long. So I had to run a plug right up next to the thing in order to get it running tonight. I will make myself a longer cord, or purchase one soon, but it seems kind of ridiculous to expect the light to be placed within 3 feet of an outlet. Maybe that's all they had at the time. Some more pics.

5x5 · Apr 24, 2014

Additionally, I have some kind of weird deficiency going on. Since you're reading this thread right now, I figured maybe I could pick someone's brain to see if they had any tips.
At first I thought I had a magnesium deficiency because I was getting spots turning yellow, then necrotic between the veins. I've been feeding them a (what I think) somewhat mild regimen of FulMag with the last 2 or 3 waterings.
I'm pretty sure some of the yellowest lower leaves are just dying and falling off normally, but this spotting is now climbing back up the plant into what were previously healthy leaves. They have been growing very fast (almost tripled in size in 4 weeks) , and the roots are now starting to poke out of the pots, so I suspect some of the yellowing means nitrogen deficiency. All the new growth looks very healthy and green. I think I am going to start adding nutrients (Connoisseur, at least) to the next watering. I was waiting for them to use up most of the nutrients in the soil to avoid nute burn.
They are in Ocean Forest, and I transplanted them 3-4 weeks ago (pretty sure it was 4).
Thoughts?

5x5 · Apr 25, 2014

Had some issues with the uploading, posting more pics here.
The new problem looks a little bit different than the previous problem with the spotting, which would generally happen all over the leaf before starting to turn brown, then necrotic. The bulk of the new problem seems to be creeping in from the edges.

This is pretty much what I had happening before....spots between the veins turning necrotic

calicat · Apr 25, 2014

Looks like advancing cal/mag deficiency with some accidental water or nutrient splash. I have read that when using leds the cal/mag deficiency can come on quicker. I myself have been double dosing when the cal/mag rotation comes around. So far so good. Oh im sure you already know this but when you eventually convert to leds it is wise to get cheap led glasses. Its cool filters our the colors and makes it crystal clear. Easy to examine your plants without taking them out of your room into a different light source.The can run around 35 bones. Leds can cause cataracts faster than hids I have read but no scientific documentation to support or discredit it.

5x5 · Apr 30, 2014

Not too much to report. The deficiency hasn't gotten any worse since last update, which is good. No new problems, at least. Seemed like the plants had depleted the soil of most of the nutrients, so I began giving them Connoisseur, Bud Factor X, H1, F1, Rhino Skin, and Carboload starting this past Sunday. Today I gave them their second round and it seems to be helping. It may have been a potash (K) deficiency, based on some reading I did in Hemp Diseases and Pests (which also covers deficiencies).
My timer crapped out on me on Sunday, after only 3 weeks of use (my fault for buying a cheap chinese timer, I suppose) so I had to spend a few hours dealing with getting a new one and installing it Hopefully it will be smooth sailing from here on out.
Since I got them, the plants have now slightly more than tripled in size (they are around 35-38 inches tall), so in retrospect I would recommend flowering Sour Diesel at 8" maximum if you are trying to keep them short for a SOG. Buds are developing pretty well, getting heavy. I may have to stake them soon.
Not much else to report. Kind of in the waiting period while they ripen. I ran the UV on each quadrant of the room for one light cycle this week (I rotate the lights a quarter turn per day so they get different angles and exposure to both HPS and the LED, which has more blue in it), and will probably do so again next two weeks before running full time for the last two weeks.
All the Hasberry seeds I started for the next round are out of the soil except for one, which looks like it was a dud, but I'll give it a few more days.
I have a few pics of the SD.

5x5 · May 20, 2014

Well, I've been really busy, and haven't been posting as frequently as I should. Apologies.
The News:
One of the panels in the LED lost power (my assumption) to the blue LED's, so I contacted the company about it. Was told last week that they would be shipping a replacement early last week. I was sort of waiting to see how that played out before posting again, but I haven't heard back from them again since. I suppose I should contact them again soon, as I only have a few weeks left on this cycle and I'd like to flip the Hashberry right into the closet when this is all finished.
Pic of the light:

Other than that, things are progressing more or less smoothly. I let them go without water for too long, and one of the ladies was not very happy with me, lost a bunch of her fan leaves. They were all falling over from the weight of the buds, so I spent a full day tying them to stakes, and installing a drip system (since I finally got paid and could afford some supplies) so they wouldn't have to go without water just because I didn't have the time or inclination to pull them all out of the closet and water (a process that takes about an hour to two hours).
It looks like I do indeed have two strains here, or that the clones are from a totally different phenotype of the same strain. Just under half of them have much more sativa-dominant growth patterns and appearance, and are obviously need to ripen at least another week or more after the rest of them are ripe enough for harvest (I believe these are the Chemdawg, though feel free to weigh in if you have experience with these strains). Which is fine. I need to sex all the Hashberry anyway, which will probably take at least a week, at which point I will repot the females into the 3 gal fiber pots that are occupied by my current group. Looking back at the previous photos, it's clear they've come a long way. Looking at other growers' and seed banks' photos of the strain, it's clear I have a bit of work to do before my room is totally dialed in, but for a practice run with some free clones that a friend gave to me, it looks to me like I should be able to clear at least close to a pound from 1200 watts. Not too bad for my first indoor grow in almost ten years, with unfamiliar strains, while being pretty much broke the whole time (i.e. not able to necessarily afford all the supplies I want when I need them).
I expect the next round to do much better, as I've grown it before, and it's a very forgiving strain, and not nearly as prone to stretching like crazy as this strain has.
Here are some photos taken a couple of days ago. Apologies for the fuzziness of some.

Falling over

Freshly transplanted Hashberry. I expect to see a big growth spurt now that they are out of that cheap soil I bought for $5/bag. Ironically, the ones that are doing the best were topped off with Miracle-Gro moisture retaining soil (with some added nutes, which I'm sure accounts for the difference). I hope the ones on the bottom catch up quickly!

5x5 · May 30, 2014

Well, looks like this harvest is going to be modest at best. I went out of town for Memorial Day Weekend, and just hooked up the drip system and walked out the door, figuring it would be enough to get them through Monday, but I had a bunch of stuff from the nutrients clogging the ends of the tubes, and most of one tube in particular, so a bunch of them didn't get watered properly until Monday. They were pretty unhappy with me. One in particular started growing more stem out of the top of the cola (you can see it in the 4th picture from the bottom in the previous post), and the flowers are looking pretty wispy (but they do still appear to have some time left before finishing). I also had a heat issue. Or more like a brain issue. I thought I read in Rosenthal's book that the optimum temperature was 85F, when in fact he was referring to the upper limit of the temperature range when using CO2!
D'OH!
Definitely a Homer Simpson moment. That's what I get for reading the book at midnight when I should be sleeping instead.
So the temperature swing from day to night has probably been close to 15-20 degrees F., which I believe is what caused the stretch and is delaying the flowering process. I think they basically went into survival mode from the heat, and stress from the lack of water, and stopped photosynthesizing, because the bud development has pretty much slowed to a crawl - I expeced that the ones further along would be done probably next weekend, but no amber trichomes to be seen. In fact, the plants look pretty much the same as they did when I started this foolish temperature boondoggle about ten days ago.
Oh well. That's how we learn. Make a bunch of mistakes so we don't have to next time.
On another note, the Hashberries are coming along nicely. A bunch of them were getting so tall that I was getting worried about the size difference, so I took the largest of the bunch and put them into the flowering room so I can sex them and re-pot as needed. Plus, I really needed the space, as you can see from the last picture in the previous post.
I kept the smallest ones in the tent and was able to put the lights closer to the canopy because there weren't a bunch of taller plants keeping the lights high, or a huge area needing to be covered (the main issue - if I lowered the lights much more, the plants on the outer perimeter would be receiving the equivalent of shaded sunlight or worse. You can see this happening on the right hand side of the shelf with the larger plants in the photo from the previous post).
The Hashberries love their new soil (also the last time I buy crappy soil just because I think it's a good idea to plant them even though the places with good soil are all closed. Better to wait a day or two and use quality soil).
Here are a few photos of the Hashberries. They are all of the smallest, crappiest looking ones (mostly on the bottom shelf, but a few from the top as well) pictured in the last post. They've grown to about 4-6 inches in height, but the obvious difference is the explosion of growth in the leaf size.
I am going to start inserting images as thumbnails because my connection is not that fast and now it takes a couple of minutes to load the journal.

kmog33 · Jun 3, 2014

5x5 said:
Well, looks like this harvest is going to be modest at best. I went out of town for Memorial Day Weekend, and just hooked up the drip system and walked out the door, figuring it would be enough to get them through Monday, but I had a bunch of stuff from the nutrients clogging the ends of the tubes, and most of one tube in particular, so a bunch of them didn't get watered properly until Monday. They were pretty unhappy with me. One in particular started growing more stem out of the top of the cola (you can see it in the 4th picture from the bottom in the previous post), and the flowers are looking pretty wispy (but they do still appear to have some time left before finishing). I also had a heat issue. Or more like a brain issue. I thought I read in Rosenthal's book that the optimum temperature was 85F, when in fact he was referring to the upper limit of the temperature range when using CO2!
D'OH!
Definitely a Homer Simpson moment. That's what I get for reading the book at midnight when I should be sleeping instead.
So the temperature swing from day to night has probably been close to 15-20 degrees F., which I believe is what caused the stretch and is delaying the flowering process. I think they basically went into survival mode from the heat, and stress from the lack of water, and stopped photosynthesizing, because the bud development has pretty much slowed to a crawl - I expeced that the ones further along would be done probably next weekend, but no amber trichomes to be seen. In fact, the plants look pretty much the same as they did when I started this foolish temperature boondoggle about ten days ago.
Oh well. That's how we learn. Make a bunch of mistakes so we don't have to next time.
On another note, the Hashberries are coming along nicely. A bunch of them were getting so tall that I was getting worried about the size difference, so I took the largest of the bunch and put them into the flowering room so I can sex them and re-pot as needed. Plus, I really needed the space, as you can see from the last picture in the previous post.
I kept the smallest ones in the tent and was able to put the lights closer to the canopy because there weren't a bunch of taller plants keeping the lights high, or a huge area needing to be covered (the main issue - if I lowered the lights much more, the plants on the outer perimeter would be receiving the equivalent of shaded sunlight or worse. You can see this happening on the right hand side of the shelf with the larger plants in the photo from the previous post).
The Hashberries love their new soil (also the last time I buy crappy soil just because I think it's a good idea to plant them even though the places with good soil are all closed. Better to wait a day or two and use quality soil).
Here are a few photos of the Hashberries. They are all of the smallest, crappiest looking ones (mostly on the bottom shelf, but a few from the top as well) pictured in the last post. They've grown to about 4-6 inches in height, but the obvious difference is the explosion of growth in the leaf size.
I am going to start inserting images as thumbnails because my connection is not that fast and now it takes a couple of minutes to load the journal.
View attachment 3166577 View attachment 3166581 View attachment 3166582

They look happy even though they didnt get watered correctly i wouldnt worry too much about it.

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5x5 closet grow using SolarStorm 880

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