$1000 to Invest in My Closet, 1 Shot at Doing This Right. Please Critique This Idea!

ClosetSafe

ClosetSafe

Active Member
Uber Newb said:
The Stuff:
1 ) GrowBright 4" Inline Fan & Carbon Filter Combo - $120.95
2 ) 4" Back Draft Damper - $23.95
3 ) 4" Flexible Ducting - 8 Feet - $6.99
4 ) Single 4 Inch Cooling Flange - $5.00
5 ) 3x Device Timers - ~ $35.00
6 ) GrowBright 600 watt High Pressure Sodium Bulb & Socket - $99.98
7 ) Honeywell Table Top Air Circulator Fan - $40.00
8 ) CO2 Release Kit - $99.95
Click to expand...
Get the 3 Gallon Smart Pot! or the 2 Gallon Roots Organics Fabric Pot. And I literally mean the 2 gallon Root over the 3 gallon root. The two gallon is taller and holds 3 gallons, it's f'd up, feel bad for people who figured that out after buying both. But letting you know ahead of time.

Edit: I also recommend 3 gallon fabric pots, because they are the happy medium of container sizes. Fabric pots are completely the way to go. Saves medium, since all of it gets used by the roots.

For medium, i'd recommend coco, but it's your first go. So the blends of coco with nutrition like "Just Right Xtra" will honestly be much easier for you. Or honestly buy a brick of straight compressed coco for 2-3 bucks (it makes 3.5 gallons) and cut whatever soil you are thinking of choosing. Just right tends to actually be on the hot side of the fertilizer thermometer, so you could even cut that too. Or just water it with plain water at first. Coco is cheap and organic and reusable and gets better with re-use. Unlike any other medium on the market. Has it's problems, which can be benefits to many gardeners, like it's inert and has a neutral ph.

you sure you didn't want to get an umbrella hood thing?


Gastanker said:
Awesome gadget but I am going to have to play devils advocate. It is not great for a ballast to run 24/7 for 9 weeks straight - the constant heat is just bad for all the internal components. The price difference between a switchbox ($150) and a new 600w dimmable lumatek ($180) is only $30. This extra $30 gives you temporary reassurance if one light goes, prolongs the ballasts life, as well as the bulbs life - most newer digital ballasts have a soft start feature to promote bulb life but by quickly diverting the current you bypass this feature. You can't dimm the tents separately either with the switch box nor use one tent for veg and the other flower - both would have to be flower all the time.
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G, you are completely right about that unnecessary heat. That is another thing I worry about. Then Soft starts help against fires too?
Thanks for playing that role.
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
I dig it.

The only change I might make in my own garden is putting the exhaust fan after the 90 degree turn rather than before the 90 degree turn. The blowing of the air into that 90 degree is going to generate a little more noise than sucking will. You might also get a little better flow placing the fan after the turn as well, but I'm sure it won't be a big deal.

The 8" fan should be more than adequate ventilation for your system. Technically, a 6" fan might do the job (400cfm) because of the size space you are working with doesn't have more than 200cuft. I think the higher cfm fan on a controller will be appropriate because in the summer you might need to keep the area venting once every 15 to 12 seconds.

Also, consider that during the summer time you will need to keep your intake temperatures lower than 72 degrees. Unless you live in an area that never breaks 75, or you already have air conditioning, this is going to cause a problem. You cannot keep the grow room cooler than the air it is bringing in. Usually, Home Depot and Lowes run very good deals on 5000btu window AC units, as low as $50 sometimes (I got mine for $80 and used a spend $20 get $20 back coupon, so $60 total). These units will be able to manage the heat generated from your system, so you're not going to need to run them all the time, and you might honestly only need it for a few weeks during the summer depending on the local climate, but it is better to have what you need when you need it than to try and play catch up later on.

So... if you manage to add another $100 to the room this summer, put it into an AC unit for sure.
 
U

Uber Newb

Active Member
Correct me if I am wrong, because its been a long time since I read that info about vertical vs horizontal setups.... But in a vertical you want to place the bulb on the sides of the plants instead of above them. If that is correct there would be no need for an umbrella reflector.

Also, I have not even begun to dig into the actual type of medium I will be using. I realize it is an important factor but when price shopping the internet it seemed to me that most of your expenses are going to be in the light and exhaust system. So thats kinda just where I started with this design.

Now that I feel we have iron'd out a lot of the basics I want to focus on the actual grow medium. I want to make all my grows as organic as possible. I don't know if the smoke I currently buy is organic but what I do know is when I eat organic produce the shit tastes so much better. The wife dosent even have to tell me where she got the groceries... I can usually figure it out with the first bite of dinner. So I am just gonna kinda roll with that logic and my grow. ;-)

EDIT: ClosetSafe - So I am guessing that using 5 gal pots would be overkill for this setup? Is that why you recommend the 3gal pots?
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
Here's a link to Subcool's organic mix: https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/338384-2010-revised-super-soil-recipe.html

A pretty fantastic mixture I think.

The key to indoor organics is aeration material and supplementation of the microbial biosphere.

You need to allow for a considerable amount of inert aeration material in the mixture, upwards of 30%, when growing in organics indoors. As a result the total amount of food contained within the mixture is a less than would be present in an outdoor grow. To avoid adding synthetic nutrients, or nutrients derived from element salts, you are going to want to use a purely organic blend of composted ingredients to brew your own solution.

Essentially, all you need is a bucket, air pump, and air stone. The more air, the more organic activity, and the better the brew. You'll want to do some research on compost tea, good recipes for different times, but these are mostly very similar. Worm Castings, natural compost, high pk guano, greensand and dolomite garden lime. There are many other ingredients and inoculants to choose from also.

You won't need to feed often. You are essentially recharging the organic system with food to feed the microbes which in turn feed the plant. This is the cornerstone of organic gardening. Start with a good mixture that you can supplement a few times in veg, and as required during flowering, to supply the right ratios of elements.

I suggest using 3 to 5 gallon fabric planters, like SmartPots, in the grow room. You will also need a way of managing your runoff so consider how you're going to remove the water that drains from the bottom of the planters. I use a table and a siphon, many others use wet-Vac's. You won't want to jostle them much, so devise a system that prevents you from moving them around much.
 
ClosetSafe

ClosetSafe

Active Member
Yeah, 5 gallons would probably be over kill. 5 gallon buckets are cool, because the roots aren't going to use all of the medium, they are going to spend most of their time circling the container. Airpruning/roottrapping containers are insane. 2 gallon roots pots will probably save you money and they are a very nice 3 gallon size. You could fit a bunch of them in there. most 3/5 gallon fabric containers tend to be on the wide side. there are too many on the market now to speak for all of them though. smart pots happen to be the firsts, so they will tend to be expensive.

for organics, i have to toss out general organics. they have a decent fertilizer line. A ton of unneccessary stuff, but it's clean and vegan. Meaning nothing comes from animals. With the one exception of their BIOMARINE, wich is nothing but a bottle of compressed sea creatures. fun stuff. Always recommend them. I like their cal mag. It's got cane suga (when i add calmag, i add it first to the solution mixture. taking a poll to find out why.)
When I think of a line, I want to choose a cal/mag first. I can't explain right now why, but always as my nutrient foundation(using RO). Then I pick my nitrogen heavy grow base. Then I pick my phosphorus heavy bloom base, then my potassium heavy finishing product.
Grow natural, bloom natural, deuce deuce.
Biothrive Grow, Biothrive Bloom, BioBud
earth juice grow, bloom, meta k
roots organics buddha grow, bloom, potassium kick from another brand because they don't have one apparently

but you get the picture: Calmag/base/base/flowerbooster> if you are doing organic, sub culture isn't even a question, it's a must. some brands cheaper than others. bacillis subtillis is bacillis subtillis Some mediums come with it like Just right Xtra
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
ClosetSafe said:
Yeah, 5 gallons would probably be over kill. 5 gallon buckets are cool, because the roots aren't going to use all of the medium, they are going to spend most of their time circling the container. Airpruning/roottrapping containers are insane. 2 gallon roots pots will probably save you money and they are a very nice 3 gallon size. You could fit a bunch of them in there. most 3/5 gallon fabric containers tend to be on the wide side. there are too many on the market now to speak for all of them though. smart pots happen to be the firsts, so they will tend to be expensive.

for organics, i have to toss out general organics. they have a decent fertilizer line. A ton of unneccessary stuff, but it's clean and vegan. Meaning nothing comes from animals. With the one exception of their BIOMARINE, wich is nothing but a bottle of compressed sea creatures. fun stuff. Always recommend them. I like their cal mag. It's got cane suga (when i add calmag, i add it first to the solution mixture. taking a poll to find out why.)
When I think of a line, I want to choose a cal/mag first. I can't explain right now why, but always as my nutrient foundation(using RO). Then I pick my nitrogen heavy grow base. Then I pick my phosphorus heavy bloom base, then my potassium heavy finishing product.
Grow natural, bloom natural, deuce deuce.
Biothrive Grow, Biothrive Bloom, BioBud
earth juice grow, bloom, meta k
roots organics buddha grow, bloom, potassium kick from another brand because they don't have one apparently

but you get the picture: Calmag/base/base/flowerbooster> if you are doing organic, sub culture isn't even a question, it's a must. some brands cheaper than others. bacillis subtillis is bacillis subtillis Some mediums come with it like Just right Xtra
Click to expand...
Do you even use these products?
Do you even grow bud?

Or are you still trying to put together a light system made out of Xmas lights?

Have you figured out how to mix your nutrients???

I don't want to have to hate on you ClosetSafe, but what exactly proves you are an authority on these questions? I have yet to see a plant grown by yourself.

Uber Newb, you might not want to consider many things this guy is saying.

No umbrella reflector. No switch box. No buckets.

Personally, I use 3 gallon SmartPots in a vertical setup using an organic coco mix, so I can agree on those points. In your grow you have 18 sqft for 8 plants and the two bulbs. Realistically, you're looking at less than 2sqft per plant when you get everything crammed in there.

As I'm starting to rethink the actual space of the area (I grow in a 5x5 with 1400w) I am starting to think that a 6" exhaust fan will be plenty. I also think that 8 plants in that space might be over kill. You might have better luck with 6 plants, with the two plants that are in the center getting 360 degrees of lighting and harvesting very heavy.

For you, I think the idea here is to grow tall plants to maximize the use of the vertical space. As they grow tall you'll need to do some pruning to keep them from encroaching on each other. But, having many nodes, on a 6 tall plants, in a vertical setup is a good deal.

I'll look around for a vert thread I saw just recently. This guy grows 6 foot tall 1 lbs monsters in a space about your same size, and that's probably a good guy to mimic. I'll look it up soon.

Edit: I think this is it: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=208696
 
ClosetSafe

ClosetSafe

Active Member
Snow Crash said:
Do you even use these products?
Do you even grow bud?

Or are you still trying to put together a light system made out of Xmas lights?

Have you figured out how to mix your nutrients???

I don't want to have to hate on you ClosetSafe, but what exactly proves you are an authority on these questions? I have yet to see a plant grown by yourself.

Uber Newb, you might not want to consider many things this guy is saying.

No umbrella reflector. No switch box. No buckets.

Personally, I use 3 gallon SmartPots in a vertical setup using an organic coco mix, so I can agree on those points. In your grow you have 18 sqft for 8 plants and the two bulbs. Realistically, you're looking at less than 2sqft per plant when you get everything crammed in there.

As I'm starting to rethink the actual space of the area (I grow in a 5x5 with 1400w) I am starting to think that a 6" exhaust fan will be plenty. I also think that 8 plants in that space might be over kill. You might have better luck with 6 plants, with the two plants that are in the center getting 360 degrees of lighting and harvesting very heavy.

For you, I think the idea here is to grow tall plants to maximize the use of the vertical space. As they grow tall you'll need to do some pruning to keep them from encroaching on each other. But, having many nodes, on a 6 tall plants, in a vertical setup is a good deal.

I'll look around for a vert thread I saw just recently. This guy grows 6 foot tall 1 lbs monsters in a space about your same size, and that's probably a good guy to mimic. I'll look it up soon.

Edit: I think this is it: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=208696
Click to expand...
I didn't recommend buckets. I was just addressing why 5 gallon containers are used when they don't air prune.

Yes, i did make a christmas tree led grow light. I was cute. Made it out of a 1 gallon bucket lid. Started a couple seeds and rooted a few cuttings under it. - It was a bum job, so I took it apart so I could take more time in the drilling of holes next time. Silly side projects have consumed me, but since I broke so many bulbs taking the prototype apart, I haven't bothering putting it back together in the carefully drilled lid to warrant borrowing a camera to take a picture.

I firmly believe that mixing calcium in first buffers the nutrient solution, but nobody seems to agree with me.

Since when has it been a requirement to post pictures of your grow here?

So my signature isn't up to date. And my side projects aren't getting any follow through. Christmas LED's work. They are surprisingly weak and can be as close as inches from he plant without turning it white....
Money is tight and somehow something new always comes up... but when I have a couple hundred to waste on an single 300w LED and Driver, I will post that shit on here and it will bleach some plants and it will be the shit. But dude, i don't even have a camera.

Now your just making me feel bad.... Might as well not even have an RIU account if i refuse to show pics of my shit right?....
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
Why be so paranoid?

You could always use a proxy, upload to as anon on a site like imageshack, and link the photo after stripping it up exif data. It's just... I dunno... LED lighting projects left uncompleted. The difficulty of acquiring a few hundred dollars... I think you should feel welcome here but when it comes to advising someone on how to spend $1000 efficiently it helps to have a little experience in the matter. I cannot determine your level of experience, and your "hesitance" to post a picture here (which thousands of people do daily) doesn't support your case in the matter.

Some of your advice is sound. Some of it is kind of off the wall "maybe you should get this" stuff when you haven't actually used the products yourself.

That kind of advice isn't going to help anyone.
 
ClosetSafe

ClosetSafe

Active Member
the guy is starting from scratch. How does nobody live vicariously through that? Wouldn't you wish you could just be thrown 1000 bucks and build a budget setup from the ground up?

I just like throwing fun ideas I have been thinking of out there. If somebody likes it coool, speculation. I'm not telling the guy to spend a couple hundred on a single laser beam of an LED and a couple hundred on a driver he has to wire himself. Especially when that shit would be for nothing but what? So i could share that on a forum with RIU. I don't think anyone wants to see it, much less care if I spend my money when hours are getting cut at work.

I just love growing. And this is the only place a person can talk about growing. I was honest. I wanted to know what people had against the flip box. My friend who got it, got it because someone sold him on that shit. Nobody tells anyone the bad side to that shit. That's why I asked. I don't own one personally. No, I wouldn't pay for it without knowing if it really was safer or not. Actually it really just depends on where I hear that information and who I choose to believe. I can't control that shit.

Edit: Why so paranoid? Because I'm Closet Safe.
 
U

Uber Newb

Active Member
Many thanks Snow Crash! I couldn't find a link to register on that website so I could view the pictures but I was able to view his Y*uTube video. Very Impressive.

I am also very impressed with Subcools statement: "Using seven gallon nursery pots, I can grow plants from start to finish using only water" Thats the kind of soil I need as a beginner! I don't want to have to come here every time a leave curls, some new color appears, etc. I will need to work his mix on a smaller scale because I don't think I would use all that even if I went for 6 harvests a year with 12/12 from seed. Then again, I could be wrong...
 
StevieStoner

StevieStoner

Well-Known Member
go with hydroponics. ive seen this setup, its called a waterfarm. this guy got 11 ounces from 1 seed! 1 plant! if i had that money and that space thats def how i would do. it only took him about 3 months from start to finish. good luck with ur grow.
 
TruenoAE86coupe

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
You are wasting your money on the C02 unless you get a controller, and a/c and seal that room up. Really look into this part of it, it will most likely put you over your buget for no reason. For 2 600 watt lights you are going to need to run the fan for more than 15 minutes an hour, and 45 minutes an hour of co2 is most likely going to raise the levels far far above the desired level. You could do the timing thing that brings it up to the right level by running for x amount of time every x amount of time. Now when you vent you are going to lose all of it, pulling in fresh air that has co2 in it, then adding to that, even though you do not know a) if all your co2 left the space b) how much c02 is in the incoming air. Optimal temps for co2 are higher, but that does not mean they are easier to maintain. I would do your set up pretty much as you have it (i would probably use a single 1000 in a a/c hood and light mover, but thats just me.) just without the co2.
 
U

Uber Newb

Active Member
TruenoAE86coupe said:
You are wasting your money on the C02 unless you get a controller, and a/c and seal that room up. Really look into this part of it, it will most likely put you over your buget for no reason. For 2 600 watt lights you are going to need to run the fan for more than 15 minutes an hour, and 45 minutes an hour of co2 is most likely going to raise the levels far far above the desired level. You could do the timing thing that brings it up to the right level by running for x amount of time every x amount of time. Now when you vent you are going to lose all of it, pulling in fresh air that has co2 in it, then adding to that, even though you do not know a) if all your co2 left the space b) how much c02 is in the incoming air. Optimal temps for co2 are higher, but that does not mean they are easier to maintain. I would do your set up pretty much as you have it (i would probably use a single 1000 in a a/c hood and light mover, but thats just me.) just without the co2.
Click to expand...
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I researched some more after making the post and found out you have to have a controller, like you stated, to make it effective. Seems that the CAP-4 controller is really the most widley sold and seems the best but at $250+ it's out of the range of my budget. I am going to hold on to the idea for the future room improvements because its just not do-able with the money I am working with.

One question I do have about air exchange with a CO2 system:
After getting a controller and regulator, with my current setup.... Could I just put a portable A/C unit in there and seal off the room? Or would I HAVE to draw in fresh air from an outside source? I am not worried about wasting the CO2 when the exhaust kicks on... I can get it free all day.

Thanks in advanced RIU!
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
CO2 systems are advanced growing. They cost, on the regular, $500+ and require that all the other environmental and nutritional requirements are perfectly dialed in to get the greatest results.

IMO, CO2 systems should be run in an enclosed system. In this situation, with the grow being in a closet... CO2 isn't going to be the make it or break it thing. I do not think you should even be thinking about CO2 at this stage. Learn the basics first.

The best CO2 systems utilize an environment buffer room. A room about the same size, or larger, than the grow space is used to contain all the reservoirs, ballasts, fans, AC units, dehumidifiers, and CO2 equipment. This room is kept at a stable temperature and humidity and CO2 ppm level. The air is then exchanged between the two rooms, buffered to perfection in the first room, then utilized in the growing room. Using a water chiller (kept outside of both rooms due to the heat it generates), and IceBoxes in the ventilation system (basically they are radiators that you pump cold water through) you can greatly reduce the use of AC units (which will need to exhaust some).

The combination of CO2 meters, tanks (or burners), valves, IceBoxes, ventilation, AC unit, dehumidifier, water chiller, 55 gallon reservoir, water pump, etc, etc. You're looking at a sizable investment to really do it right, probably more than your entire budget right now.

Now, that isn't to say you cannot just do a little math, figure the cubic feet of your space, the exhaust rate of the room, and just run a constant "drip" of CO2 but you are going to be wasting a lot of money refilling your tank every week...
 
TruenoAE86coupe

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
More the issue with exhausting your Co2 than cost is the inconsistency, you will see with most controllers, they have set parameters, to keep your plants in a constant range of usually 1300-1500 ppm to insure the environment stays consistent. A completely sealed environment IMO is best rather than exhausting and intaking fresh air, again harder to keep consistent.
 
DankBudzzz

DankBudzzz

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how far along you are with purchasing equiptment but you can by full grow rooms for $700-$800 with a 1k light, and most amenities you need to grow at canadianwholesalehydroponics.com They also have very cheap nutrients and hps kits. Gl
 
U

Uber Newb

Active Member
Seems the more I read on CO2 systems the more complicated it gets. I guess its just the OCD in me trying to figure everything out before the first dollar is spent and light is hung. :)

Thanks for the info and saving me some time, money, and troubles. +Rep to those I can give it to again.
 
U

Uber Newb

Active Member
So some family issues have come up and I am not going to be able to dedicate as much money to this project as originally planned. However, on the up side I went to the hydro store with a price quote from HTGsupply.com for the first half of my lighting setup. I put the paper on the counter and asked the lady working how close she could get to the price. I was shocked when she said she would match it AND not charge me for the shipping/handling charges! When I had originally called them to ask the price of their 600 watt setup an employee had said $399 for a ballast, 600watt hps bulb and my choice of reflector.

So I am totally thrilled at the fact that I now have...

1 - 600 Watt Dimmable Lumatek Ballast
1 - Sunleaves 600 Watt HPS Bulb
1 - Sunleaves 600 Watt MH Conversion Bulb
1 - 6" Cooltube
1 - Cooltube Adapter



for $398 and some change. I am sure I could have done some more shopping around on the internet and saved a few bucks but overall I am way more happy that I was able to shop locally and have someone close by I can resolve issues with. Anyway, just wanted to share my excitement with the community and show my appreciation for those who have helped me so far!

I do have a couple questions I want to put out to the community:
1) I am only going to be using half the space I originally planned. Would it be better to setup the cooltube horizontally and grow 3 plants?
2) Or keep with the vertical setup and only have one plant on each side of the light?
 
TruenoAE86coupe

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
I would run it horizontally, then you have more useable space.
Sucks about the money, thats why i spent all of mine right away, lol, still have piles of shit waiting to go in staring at me while i smoke.
That is really the way to shop, can't believe you got them to come down to HTG prices, props on that, but getting bids at this point isn't a bad idea, everyone wants your business. Good luck and keep us up to date.
 
U

Uber Newb

Active Member
TruenoAE86coupe said:
I would run it horizontally, then you have more useable space.
Sucks about the money, thats why i spent all of mine right away, lol, still have piles of shit waiting to go in staring at me while i smoke.
That is really the way to shop, can't believe you got them to come down to HTG prices, props on that, but getting bids at this point isn't a bad idea, everyone wants your business. Good luck and keep us up to date.
Click to expand...
Money comes and money goes, all in all I am not worried about it too much. I think everyone has helped me loads and by the second harvest I will have the cash to drop on the second ballast and bulb. TBH, I still could probably spend the cash for the second set now but if my son needed another visit to the doctor and more meds.. well, then it would just put us in a bad spot. Gotta put the family first, ya know. Thanks for answering my question so quick, if the forum would let me rep you again I would! ;-)
 
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