Ttystikk's vertical goodness

Budley Doright said:

Ya I saw that it was an indirect, good choice .

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It's a 'solar hot water tank with natural gas backup', I just changed the source of heat.

very nice, @ttystikk I like, I really do. I have always wondered what it would take to get the numbers they test at 25c versus at 85c, or somewhere in between. would be especially good for some of these bigger chips they are starting to make, that are definitiely gonna take some work just to cool normally, let alone being able to get over average performance, like you are.. I finally found that 2400w cob you were talking about a while ago. I couldn't believe it, what a massive fucking cob. 4 hlg600's to run one cob, lol

ttystikk said:

It's a 'solar hot water tank with natural gas backup', I just changed the source of heat.

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We use the same tanks for our geothermal domestic hot water circuit, and as a storage/buffer tank for heating/cooling loops and yup they work great. The manufacturer we deal with just started to market a air to water unit like yours but with dedicated heating as well, really interesting stuff .

febisfebi said:

very nice, @ttystikk I like, I really do. I have always wondered what it would take to get the numbers they test at 25c versus at 85c, or somewhere in between. would be especially good for some of these bigger chips they are starting to make, that are definitiely gonna take some work just to cool normally, let alone being able to get over average performance, like you are.. I finally found that 2400w cob you were talking about a while ago. I couldn't believe it, what a massive fucking cob. 4 hlg600's to run one cob, lol

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TEN degrees C; 55F. The temperature droop curve shoes that my chips are running at 60% efficiency where the very same configuration nets air cooled ambient plus setups no more than 55%. This is an efficiency improvement of 10 percent.

Budley Doright said:

We use the same tanks for our geothermal domestic hot water circuit, and as a storage/buffer tank for heating/cooling loops and yup they work great. The manufacturer we deal with just started to market a air to water unit like yours but with dedicated heating as well, really interesting stuff .

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Using water and heat pumps to handle HVAC and domestic hot water is more efficient than current approaches. I believe it will be commonplace in 20 years.

I'm not just looking to improve lighting efficiency for commercial facilities, but their whole energy usage picture. It seems the power utilities are very much on board with my ideas; the rebate programs I've investigated offer big incentives for the large scale implementation of exactly what I'm doing.

febisfebi said:

I finally found that 2400w cob you were talking about a while ago. I couldn't believe it, what a massive fucking cob. 4 hlg600's to run one cob, lol

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Just imagine how far above the canopy you'd have to mount that monster; thirty feet, maybe more at full power!

Methinks most folks don't have bays THAT high, lol

The utilities are actually doing that here with lighting as well, rebates to switch to LED. Have you found out the cost to get things certified (CSA, UL here) for sale? Our market for geothermal and even air source heat pumps has tanked due to low cost gas. Hard to justify a twenty year payback lol.

Budley Doright said:

The utilities are actually doing that here with lighting as well, rebates to switch to LED. Have you found out the cost to get things certified (CSA, UL here) for sale? Our market for geothermal and even air source heat pumps has tanked due to low cost gas. Hard to justify a twenty year payback lol.

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Yep. Working on getting those certifications as I type these words.

ttystikk said:

TEN degrees C; 55F. The temperature droop curve shoes that my chips are running at 60% efficiency where the very same configuration nets air cooled ambient plus setups no more than 55%. This is an efficiency improvement of 10 percent.

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Wow, that is something else. I had no idea. 10% is Huge! you are so far ahead of anyone else I have seen in this hobby/market, in so many ways, its really something, I must say.
Speaking of which, which tank/picture are you guys discussing. I must have missed it. but I am very intersted

i do a bit of work with gas authorities here but mostly when shit goes bad and we test appliances to see why they blew up , last fireplace blew the 30' 4" aluminum liner out the chimney like a giant flying silver snake according to the Neighbors lol.

Have you figured out the BTU's your pulling out of each plate in the lights?

febisfebi said:

Wow, that is something else. I had no idea. 10% is Huge! you are so far ahead of anyone else I have seen in this hobby/market, in so many ways, its really something, I must say.
Speaking of which, which tank/picture are you guys discussing. I must have missed it. but I am very intersted

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Thank you for noticing. Usually I get jackass comments about how it's not worth it to cool the chips that much cuz it costs extra for cooling or some shit...

And yeah, the lab here is validating a lot of new approaches to indoor cultivation. Some work better than others, but I've got some real doozies in the pipeline.

Here's the pic of the tanks in the bottom of my chiller;

Budley Doright said:

i do a bit of work with gas authorities here but mostly when shit goes bad and we test appliances to see why they blew up , last fireplace blew the 30' 4" aluminum liner out the chimney like a giant flying silver snake according to the Neighbors lol.

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That would suck for Santa!

Budley Doright said:

Have you figured out the BTU's your pulling out of each plate in the lights?

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Not quite sure what you're asking here? I'm pulling all the heat radiated backwards thru the chip.

Just wondering if you know the rate at which the heat is removed re BTU's so GPM x temp rise x 500 would give you the heat in btu's that your removing.

Budley Doright said:

Just wondering if you know the rate at which the heat is removed re BTU's so GPM x temp rise x 500 would give you the heat in btu's that your removing.

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The monkey wrench in that approach is the heat soaked up by the plants via transpiration.

Therefore, one has to resort to a thermal calculation of each type of heat source and multiply by the number of them. In my case, the vast majority of those are COB LED chips. I haven't run those numbers.

What I can tell you is that the chiller can keep up with much more heat than one would expect from AC, and the water cooled air handlers it services perform double duty as water condensers themselves.

As far as heat from the chips, the light modules are actually cold to the touch. They're cold enough to condense water from the environment.

It would be helpful to know the HE (heat of extraction) from your different heat sinks if you were actually trying to market this on a big scale for big growers IMO, also great for sizing equipment. Room ambient would affect it but on a linear scale so it could be a base line for different heat sink designs as well, just thinking out loud here . I also am wondering if a finned heat sink with copper or probably coopernickle fin cooling would be easier to manufacture with the same or perhaps better transfer? Cool stuff tyy.

ttystikk said:

The monkey wrench in that approach is the heat soaked up by the plants via transpiration.

Therefore, one has to resort to a thermal calculation of each type of heat source and multiply by the number of them. In my case, the vast majority of those are COB LED chips. I haven't run those numbers.

What I can tell you is that the chiller can keep up with much more heat than one would expect from AC, and the water cooled air handlers it services perform double duty as water condensers themselves.

As far as heat from the chips, the light modules are actually cold to the touch. They're cold enough to condense water from the environment.

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The condensing is probably not desirable but easily over come. And yup depending on dew point it probably happens quite a lot. Your heat sinks would be better served removing the sensible heat from the lights and not latent heat from the room, through condensing. Leave that to fan coils that are better suited. I really need to figure the LED shit out, I'm getting more confused the more I read lol. By keeping the lights cool, really cool, is it possible to over drive beyond their rating and achieve higher effencies or would they still burnout? If I'm rambling sorry, just smoked a big fatty of master kush .

Budley Doright said:

It would be helpful to know the HE (heat of extraction) from your different heat sinks if you were actually trying to market this on a big scale for big growers IMO, also great for sizing equipment. Room ambient would affect it but on a linear scale so it could be a base line for different heat sink designs as well, just thinking out loud here . I also am wondering if a finned heat sink with copper or probably coopernickle fin cooling would be easier to manufacture with the same or perhaps better transfer? Cool stuff tyy.

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Aluminum pin heat sinks are much cheaper and entirely up to the job.

You've made an excellent point, I'll have to have that done.

Budley Doright said:

The condensing is probably not desirable but easily over come. And yup depending on dew point it probably happens quite a lot. Your heat sinks would be better served removing the sensible heat from the lights and not latent heat from the room, through condensing. Leave that to fan coils that are better suited. I really need to figure the LED shit out, I'm getting more confused the more I read lol. By keeping the lights cool, really cool, is it possible to over drive beyond their rating and achieve higher effencies or would they still burnout? If I'm rambling sorry, just smoked a big fatty of master kush .

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Both efficiency AND forward voltage rise as chips get colder.

My heat sinks are doing their intended job of removing heat before it has a chance to impact the room. They're doing it very well, indeed.

ttystikk said:

Thank you for noticing. Usually I get jackass comments about how it's not worth it to cool the chips that much cuz it costs extra for cooling or some shit...

And yeah, the lab here is validating a lot of new approaches to indoor cultivation. Some work better than others, but I've got some real doozies in the pipeline.

Here's the pic of the tanks in the bottom of my chiller;
View attachment 3787436

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Nice! I can tell that it's engineered well, they left room to work on it lol. Most jam shit in on top shit .