24/0 or 20/4 for seedlings?

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Wow,,,simply WOW! 33%? If that was true the whole world would do it - It would be a joke if you didn't!

Running on 24/0?

How about you all google up "Light saturation point in C3 plants"........Now tell me that 24/0 is better - I dare you! Or was the science and text book wording to hard to understand?

To put it briefly - The plant hits a point before mid-day where it begins to change on the cellular peptide level...This change is to protect it's self from the light..Photosynthesis declines on a bell curve. So does all growth right along with it. The use of Co2 will slow the plants need to do this change by about 30%.....THIS is why Co2 use will increase plant growth. It ALLOWS the plant to work at full strength longer before the cellular change to protect!....At night, the plant reverse's the daytime change so it can again, grow and use the full strength of the light again in the mourning...

I'm sorry but, I have tried 24/0 and in no way did I ever get any better results!

This is scientific, Botany and Horticultural fact.....
Thanks for telling them! I have said before that while it is possible for pot to grow under 24/0 that is certainly not the best. Where is the attempt to replicate the natural environment with that shit? Then they expect the plant to do ITS bit and make good dense buds and a lot of them. I'm sure the electric company shareholders appreciate the efforts.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Thanks for telling them! I have said before that while it is possible for pot to grow under 24/0 that is certainly not the best. Where is the attempt to replicate the natural environment with that shit? Then they expect the plant to do ITS bit and make good dense buds and a lot of them. I'm sure the electric company shareholders appreciate the efforts.
*LIKE*LIKE*LIKE*LIKE*
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
The 33% on 24/0 is a claim by hotshotisdahit
And Ed (not that that means anything, just saying...)
"One way in which plants are categorized is by the way they gather and handle carbon dioxide. Cannabis is a C3 plant. It uses the CO2 it gathers during the light period, when it is photosynthesizing. Plants designated C4 also gather CO2 during the dark period for use during the light period. Many C3 plants, including cannabis, do not need a rest period. They continue to photosynthesize as long as they are receiving light.

The plant's photosynthetic rate determines its growth rate because the sugars are used by the plant to build tissue and for energy. Cannabis under continuous light will grow 33% faster than the same plants on an 18-6 light regime."

I get shorter, wider, thicker (stems, branches), more vigorous plants under continous light. What cannabis does at night it can do in the light, the cycle won't stop, neither will photosynthesis. Perhaps the fact I veg under low intensity light plays a role, but unless someone measures it I don't believe they are ever saturated. Indoor growing is not about mimicking outdoor, on the contrary, it's about creating a more optimal environment. One where it does not rain, freeze, storms or gets eaten by slugs, or gets dark in veg.
 

unwine99

Well-Known Member
Love 24/0 for haze/sativa leaning varieties -- I've noticed significantly less stretch and tighter internodal space when compared to 18/6. And the tighter they stay during veg., the tighter they'll be after the stretch in flower -- better plant structure, less flop, fatter colas.
 

vostok

Well-Known Member

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Yeah, almost all are, but that doesn't mean they all operate in the exact same way, and supposedly not all actually require a dark period. Cannabis ime does not. I fully acknowledge others can have other experiences.

"It's been established for many many many years now that cannabis is a C3 plant. It does not need a dark period. C3 plants gather CO2 only during the light period when they are photosynthesizing. As long as the light is on, C3 plants gather and use CO2 for photosynthesis.

Some growers practice a version of anthropomorphism with their plants. They believe that since people need rest, plants do as well. Concerning cannabis, this is not true.

Every grower can make a personal choice about light cycle. They can save on their electric bill or prolong ballast/bulb life. 18/6 can be less of a "shock" when changing over to 12/12 for flowering than 24/0 or heat issues can be addressed by fewer hours of light, but basic botany has proven long ago that cannabis needs no dark period."

Robert Clarke "Marijuana Botany: An Advanced Study"

"Marijuana plants photosynthesize as long as they receive light as well as water, air, nutrients and suitable temperature. Photosynthesis is the process in which plants use the energy from light (primarily in the blue and red spectrum's) to combine carbon dioxide (CO2) from the air and water (H2O) to make sugar while releasing oxygen to the air.

Plants use sugars continuously to fuel metabolic processes (living) as well as for tissue building. The plant combines nitrogen (N) with the sugar to make amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. They are the substance of plant tissue. When the light is off, the plant's metabolic processes, respiration and growth, continue.

The plant can photosynthesize continuously so it produces the most energy and growth when the light is on, continuously. Continuous light does not stress the plant, which reacts somewhat mechanistically to it.

>Plants under an 18-6 light-dark regimen are producing sugar only three quarters of the time. They are thus growing at only 75% of their potential. Leaving the light on continuously will result in bigger plants, faster, which leads to higher yields."

Ed Rosenthal "Marijuana Grower's Handbook"

"Cannabis is a light demanding plant. Professional growers keep the light on their plants using the 24/0 photoperiod for this reason. Plants that grow under 24/0 flourish and do not need a quantity of darkness in order to rest and perform photosynthesis properly. Plants that are grown in optimal conditions under 24/0 light regime grow vigorusly and the benefits of a 24/0 photoperiod can be seen actively in the results. More nodes are formed, more branches are created, leaf numbers increase, the plant is growing at its finest.

Some growers opt to use 18/6 as their photoperiod. This is 18 hours of light, six hours of darkness light regime. Under these conditions the plant will grow quite naturally but not as vigorously as the 24/0 photoperiod.

The 18/6 photoperiod expels 3/4 the amount of light that a 24/0 photoperiod does. Although this does not mean that a plant produces 1/4 less leaves,branches and nodes under the 18/6 photoperiod, it certainly does show the correlation between light and cannabis growth. As we have said already, cannabis is a light demanding plant. There are no problems associated with 24/0 and although some have attributed cannabis sexual dysfunction (the hermaphroditeconditon) to 18/6 photoperiod these problems are actually the result of heat stress.

A 24/0 photoperiod requires that your grow room temperature be kept well monitored. The 18/6 option is cheaper to run. You use a quarter less electricity and this will have an impact on your electricity bill. Also the 18/6 photoperiod will generally extend the bulb's lifespan. During the 6 hours of darkness the grow room is allowed to cool down for this period but a well maintained good grow room setup should not require a cooling down period.

24/0 and 18/6 both share the same problem though. Once you start the photoperiod you should keep that way especially when the plants near maturity (the preflowering stage). An irregular photoperiod can cause more males than females to develop. It can also cause sexual dysfunction to appear. Whether you choose 24/0 or 18/6 as your vegetative photoperiod try to keep that photoperiod unitl your plants are mature enough to express their sex."

Greg Green "The Cannabis Grow Bible"

While normally I don't put a whole lot of value in these books - quotes ripped from another forum - it is something the socalled experts agree on.

My plants also mature faster on 24 hrs light then 20/18/12 causing them to flower faster too. Meaning less stretch again. I determine sex based on prerlower after 25-30 days veg. They seem to grow older faster in terms of physiological age at the same chronological age because they can do more in a longer days.

In some advanced greenhouses they measure the plant directly to detect photosynthate saturation (forgot the name, they measure leaves, expensive toy), which has shown that many C3 plants are better off under alternative indoor light schedules for many different reasons, especially structure and length, but those often are tuned to get max yields (or money for the longest roses...). Fortunately indoors the grower together with mother nature determines the light schedule, not mother nature on its own, she can be a real stubborn bitch. That's more for outdoor landrace hippies (which I don't mean offensive... Need those too).
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
And Ed (not that that means anything, just saying...)
"One way in which plants are categorized is by the way they gather and handle carbon dioxide. Cannabis is a C3 plant. It uses the CO2 it gathers during the light period, when it is photosynthesizing. Plants designated C4 also gather CO2 during the dark period for use during the light period. Many C3 plants, including cannabis, do not need a rest period. They continue to photosynthesize as long as they are receiving light.

The plant's photosynthetic rate determines its growth rate because the sugars are used by the plant to build tissue and for energy. Cannabis under continuous light will grow 33% faster than the same plants on an 18-6 light regime."

I get shorter, wider, thicker (stems, branches), more vigorous plants under continous light. What cannabis does at night it can do in the light, the cycle won't stop, neither will photosynthesis. Perhaps the fact I veg under low intensity light plays a role, but unless someone measures it I don't believe they are ever saturated. Indoor growing is not about mimicking outdoor, on the contrary, it's about creating a more optimal environment. One where it does not rain, freeze, storms or gets eaten by slugs, or gets dark in veg.
It is most very likely that the low intensity light is the key on that!

I'm sure you know about the "light saturation" situation that I speak about on the lights out are better thing.....Under high intensity lighting (and the sun) C3 plants reach that point and begin to loose about that same 33% and then "repair" at night...
Unfortunately I don't have any real low intensity lighting to try that out with.
Most likely the times I attempted 24/0 it was that fact that reduced my results......Hmmm,,,,,time to get out some CFL's for some cloning and solo cup stage tests...

Thanks SATIVED

Say bud, hows the weather in the NL?

Doc
 

Dynablo

Well-Known Member
I realise you may have solved the issue by now, however...
A vegging plant does not need dark time, so 24/7 lights on would be the ultimate scenario with HEAVY lights and fans you should be done vegging MOST strains is ~4weeks.
However if power consumption is an issue for you, or anybody else reading then perhaps 20/4 or even if its more of an issue 18/6.
The only time a plant needs dark time is when it is flowering, anytime after that and your wasting precious hours my friend!
That being said, if you don't have your hot spots sorted or sufficient air-flow and or extractor and intake fans then HEAVY lights on could severely hinder the growth of your babies.
I've just got the full tent n 600w light n fan all sorted. Out of 10 seeds, I have 1 left and that's the one that survived the stress of being re potted in soil out of the coco, I managed to get 2 small plants out of 4 cuttings I got that actually took over 4 hrs to be hormones n potted after being in Freezing cold on buses, just shows how strong a weed that weed is. Anyway the whole issue for me has been time, I wanted to give my babies as much veg hrs as possible as I was planning on going 12/12 from seed. I need it to be finished before I go to court. I use the blow nutes with topmax. I got some big bags of good old reliable and cheap Wetlands with added John Innes which I normally use from the start, so into the rhino buckets and on to 12/12 today!!
Oh anyone like to know, I found a female plant floating upside down in my local canal, I ripped a few branches n took home to try see if a miracle can be done, 4 out of the 12 still ain't died yet so..... Al keep y'all informed on that and if any root I will upload pics from moment of finding it and start a thread to show, growing weed don't need to be a science, I seemed to have more success when I was ignorant to all the facts other than a light and the light times
 

tyke1973

Well-Known Member
I can go into this really in a large piece,but if you want a break down of why not then i will post,it.

There are no benefits to growing under 24 hours of light 16/18 hours is all that is needed in veg for the simple reason after this time.The dark period is when the plant takes in the light that it has taken in during the day,after this time this plants photo synthesis shuts down any how so any thing over 16 /18 max is a waste of juice,Not very often in nature we have more day light the this in nature so to burn lights over the above time frame is a waste,

But it is very important that you use blue spec,really can't stress this enuf,this is so good for the the stigmata to open during the lights on,but i can really go into this is full l i have a book deal i'm working on, it's taking a lot of time and has to be on the shop shelf's in 2016 november time.So watch this space,im really trying to make this easy to understand for new growers has well has advanced,but i have been told by publisher that,i haveto choose growing indoors step by step guide ,for new growers or a short book with many segments,on the advanced grower also the new grower.
 

Enigmatic Ways

Well-Known Member
What are you people smoking on? There's no benefit to 24/0...I don't need a science book to tell me what I can visually see with my own eyes {and their science that argues both sides}...

You people always talk about what occurs in nature, this my people is not nature, indoors we're trying to superficially create a better environment which nature could never create on his own...

You want to know why so many people need trellis netting and bamboo stakes ect to be able to hold their plants up....And no people it's not because their buds are so humongous big that the branches can't even support the weight, the branches can't support the weight because there to thin and not strong enough to support its own weight...24/0 helps tremendously in this department, I never need to support my plants and I've had a 10 ounce plant in my little grow tent 5x5x7 and it was easily able to support its own weight all the way through flowering, just a little food for thought. But we know how this goes fellas do whatever works for you and your particular situation as always.
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
What are you people smoking on? There's no benefit to 24/0...I don't need a science book to tell me what I can visually see with my own eyes {and their science that argues both sides}...

You people always talk about what occurs in nature, this my people is not nature, indoors we're trying to superficially create a better environment which nature could never create on his own...

You want to know why so many people need trellis netting and bamboo stakes ect to be able to hold their plants up....And no people it's not because their buds are so humongous big that the branches can't even support the weight, the branches can't support the weight because there to thin and not strong enough to support its own weight...24/0 helps tremendously in this department, I never need to support my plants and I've had a 10 ounce plant in my little grow tent 5x5x7 and it was easily able to support its own weight all the way through flowering, just a little food for thought. But we know how this goes fellas do whatever works for you and your particular situation as always.
I have run them ever way possible. I would run 24/0 if I could afford the bill to veg. I have before and the stems are much thicker, the plants bushier. The only drawback is like I said - the bill for it.
 

Enigmatic Ways

Well-Known Member
I have run them ever way possible. I would run 24/0 if I could afford the bill to veg. I have before and the stems are much thicker, the plants bushier. The only drawback is like I said - the bill for it.
I completely understand you on that point if I had a big grow or a whole warehouse full of plants there's no way in hell I would run 24/0 the benefits wouldn't outweigh the bill...But if you have a small personal grow like I myself have then in my opinion you can benefit from running 24/0.
 

Dynablo

Well-Known Member
I've always used 24/0 for veg and I usually veg for about 60 days with great results...Pics 30 days growth under 24/0View attachment 3551524 View attachment 3551525
I usually get good results running same as yourself, though I used to use cheap £4.97 WESTLANDS added JI, it's just for some reason it was different using coco. Also used to put them under 400w hps in their big buckets when first 3 blade leaves show, veg on 20/4 for 10 days then 18/6 for 3 weeks, then add a 600w bulb in with 400 and hit the 12/12, I usually get myself 6Oz of solid bud, + around 2 in smaller ones and flowers. I use 50Litre rhino buckets and the bio-bizz grow, Bloom and topmax. Unfortunately I need my crop done by 10 Feb latest so have to go 12/12 now. Since I only have one seedling left and 2 cuttings, u think I'd have time to start some lemon skunk this weekend, 12/12 straight from point of germination? I ain't looking for some great plants just now, just many plants with a couple Oz each?
 

Dynablo

Well-Known Member
That's really strange, isnt it usually the clones that have bad success rates lol. I'm guessing the seeds you tried were good ones too, although i dont think it makes too much of a difference. Yep im gonna get some big 1l bottles of biobizz for my next grow for sure. Shit i didn't think of that with pics on phone, mine has about 1gb of weed pics haha, should probs delete them :)
Yep I always get my seeds from greenhouseseed.nl, for 10 yrs now. This is first grow I done in a while coz I was on HMP holidays n I need this one done before court in February, bit it has just been a sore head this time, .. Maybe coz I'm rushing??!
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
24/0. if the light isn't on, it's not growing. shorter node spacing. shorter veg time. easier to keep RH and temp constant with lights always on.
 

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
if the light isn't on, it's not growing
To my experience Cannabis can grow up to 10cm vertical during one night.
During the day - not so much - there, it will focus on PS. The plant stores the photosynthates, that is NADPH/ ATP and uses them during the nightphase to grow. Plants generally do even measure the length of the day & night in order to pre-calculate how much energy/starch they can use from their leaf- & root deposits in order to not run out of food, until the dawn arises anew. This is basic botany. The 24/0 lighting may change that, as Cannabis can respire during the day, if needed.

The process of photosynthesis dissociates H2O and uses the gained electrons to transfix carbon derived from CO2 to build energy-rich molecules. C3 plants are quite old - they did emerge in evolution in times when there were twice as high CO2 atmospheric levels than we have nowadays. Therefore, PS for C3 plants is usually capped/limited by CO2, ie. the C3 plant in full sunlight usually gets more photons than actually needed. Now in the absence of CO2 PS can also accept O instead of C - resulting in a toxic product which has to be cleared during the respiration. At strong 24/0 light this is going to fail and the oxygen radicals may hurt the plant at the cellular level ("light bleaching")

 
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