Chronic Pain

bob harris

Well-Known Member
By far the most common need for medical cannabis (according to Joe Cain). No doubt cannabis helps with pain..but my question is: What should qualify as chronic pain when getting a med card?

Now, the reason I ask this, is that the vast majority of "stoners" who are using the med card to 'legalize" their use and allow them to grow..hide behind chronic pain as their ailment.

I have a couple of friends that have cards based on "chronic pain"...thing is, I've known them for years, and they never complained about pain, didn't see a doctor to help manage the pain, and basically showed no signs of having anything wrong with them until they wanted a med card.

So..wouldn't it be reasonable for the state to want med records showing ongoing treatment and a history of pain management before issuing a card for "pain"? See, one of the guys I know argues that he couldn't afford Doctors or prescriptions, so he suffered in silence. But he was able to pony up $200 bucks for a motel room Dr. certification..then spend $3000 setting up a grow room.

Do you think just maybe there are a lot pf people put there like him?
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
Bob. Ask yourself this? 2.7 MILLION Michigan Residents were prescribed a narcotic opium based pain killers in November of 2011? we currently have 135,000 Registrants on the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act, of which the vast majority of which are AUTHORIZED BY A DOCTOR for pain.

So where is YOUR problem with approximately 110,000 MMMP Registrants have it for Pain? Because you have a "FRIEND" that deals with his medical issues as most should (in the Privacy of their own home and with the consult of a Licensed Physician). So when he Does say something, it was only because cannabis was medically acceptable per the state. and even IF his pain was "Imagined", where is your medical degree and previous experience to Diagnose such a symptom?

I guess they are all fucking stoners without any pain?
So that makes the 2.7 MILLION residents with a lil ache, so they must not be faking it huh? cuz they take REAL pain KILLING Meds?

no it is NOT Reasonable the STATE should have my old medical Records. Or my new ones honestly. the STATE Is NOT MY DR. the State does not give 2 fucks if i go to the ER and say my leg hurts, and they give me 180 1000mg Vics to take every month, indefinately.. State has no problem with that. Unless i see 3 drs and get the same script filled from each in the same month.
but that is 2 fold. one they can kill themselves with an od. second they can sell those pills for up to 100.00 each..


SO we have 2.7 million residents getting pills daily for pain. but your worried about maybe 100,000 MMMP program registrants? Less than 5% in comparrison?
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Your statistic means nothing. The vast majority of prescriptions for pain meds are short term scrips. Anyone who has a surgery, even a vasectomy, which I'd encourage you to get so we don't have little ones thinking like you, get pain meds to help short term through the recovery process.

The key word is not pain..it's chronic. Chronic means persistent..not going to go away. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if someone truly has chronic pain..they have sought help from a real Doctor, and have records, over a long period of time, showing treatment.

At least, I can't imagine someone suffering from CHRONIC pain, that would'nt seek help...or mention it to freinds...
 

longroot

Well-Known Member
Your statistic means nothing. The vast majority of prescriptions for pain meds are short term scrips. Anyone who has a surgery, even a vasectomy, which I'd encourage you to get so we don't have little ones thinking like you, get pain meds to help short term through the recovery process.

The key word is not pain..it's chronic. Chronic means persistent..not going to go away. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if someone truly has chronic pain..they have sought help from a real Doctor, and have records, over a long period of time, showing treatment.


At least, I can't imagine someone suffering from CHRONIC pain, that would'nt seek help...or mention it to freinds...
Why are you so worried about what others do?
 

bmf725

Well-Known Member
Who cares what people use the card for. Is it that bad that a couple of stoners want to use this plant with out being arrested but you can be the biggest drunk in the world as long as you don't drive? I wonder how many people got cards based on chronic pain that are actually using it for say anxiety or depression because the state has not yet allowed those to be qualifying conditions so they used the chronic pain condition to qualify. I have my card for ligitamate pain. Broken T5,T6 vertebre, both collar bones have screws and plates, I had the rod in my leg removed but they stripped out one of the screws so now I have to live with a screw literally poking out of my skin, but when people look at me being in my mid 20's and I tell them Im legal they usually laugh and say "for what back pain". Then I have to explain to them how 20+ years of racing motorcycles has broken me and a gave me a nasty oxy addiction and how MM keeps me off the oxy.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Why are you so worried about what others do?
Why aren't you? But to answer your question. I'm about as legitimate a patient as there is. Parkinson's disease. Documented..treated..the definition of chronic and progressive illness. Cannabis helps PD..read up on it. Now, the reason I care about what others do, is that the stoners and profiteers that have jumped on the med band wagon to "legalize" their activities..are the ones endangering my rights as a legit patient...
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
That is really the least of my concerns. I don't care what reasons others are getting scripts for. If the doctor feels the patient qualifies, then who am I to question it?
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Who cares what people use the card for. Is it that bad that a couple of stoners want to use this plant with out being arrested but you can be the biggest drunk in the world as long as you don't drive? I wonder how many people got cards based on chronic pain that are actually using it for say anxiety or depression because the state has not yet allowed those to be qualifying conditions so they used the chronic pain condition to qualify. I have my card for ligitamate pain. Broken T5,T6 vertebre, both collar bones have screws and plates, I had the rod in my leg removed but they stripped out one of the screws so now I have to live with a screw literally poking out of my skin, but when people look at me being in my mid 20's and I tell them Im legal they usually laugh and say "for what back pain". Then I have to explain to them how 20+ years of racing motorcycles has broken me and a gave me a nasty oxy addiction and how MM keeps me off the oxy.

You are arguing legalization, or recreational use..not medical. You seem to have a legitimate source of chronic pain..that's fine..but those that don't are the ones causing the law to be challenged...and trust me, it's not just a "couple" of people using the law to "legalize" their recreational use..
 

bmf725

Well-Known Member
The thing is even if the program was absolutely perfect like no one using it as a front for rec use. The anti MMJ people, legislature, and media would still go around trying to change the law and saying people are abusing it. I'm all for full legalization I mean after all it was legal in this country for well over 100 years.
 

lampworker

Well-Known Member
Bob Harris, I guess I can see where your question started but your opinion doesn't take into account some of the reasons folks dont have previous medical records. I myself have lived with CHRONIC pain for most of my adult life. I also trust the "medical community" about as much as I trust a crackhead asking for money. Maybe less, the crackhead's motives are plain and obvious. The doctor's are veiled by the notion that they are here to help and have taken the Hipocratic Oath. We trust them to have OUR best interests in mind. I dont think this is the case. I have multiple people in my family who work in the medical field and more that have been fucked up by doctors "practicing" medicine on them. It is a big money business and that is how it feels. "Try these pills, let me know how they help." It seems like everytime something is wrong with us it's time to break out the chemistry set and experement on the patient. It is more profitable to treat the ill than cure them. This takes me back to the original point. Because of my experiences with modern medicine, diagnosed ailments, fruitless surgeries, improperly set bone fractures and doctor visits that end with "Well you look healthy" and passes my physical without ever touching me or even looking for problems, you could say my faith in the fact that those assclowns have my best interest in heart is a joke to me. They are the drug dealing politicians we pay insurance premiums to go visit. The only thing a doctor ever tried to do to help me was give me pills, DRUG DEALER. We all think it's ok for these folks to pump chemicals into us without having a clue what is in it because we trust that they know what is best. They went to medical school right? It is just an eight year business school. I haven't met a whole lot of doctors that I trust I know a handful. I would only call them if I needed a decent golf partner...
 

tomcatjones

Active Member
By far the most common need for medical cannabis (according to Joe Cain). No doubt cannabis helps with pain..but my question is: What should qualify as chronic pain when getting a med card?

Now, the reason I ask this, is that the vast majority of "stoners" who are using the med card to 'legalize" their use and allow them to grow..hide behind chronic pain as their ailment.

I have a couple of friends that have cards based on "chronic pain"...thing is, I've known them for years, and they never complained about pain, didn't see a doctor to help manage the pain, and basically showed no signs of having anything wrong with them until they wanted a med card.

So..wouldn't it be reasonable for the state to want med records showing ongoing treatment and a history of pain management before issuing a card for "pain"? See, one of the guys I know argues that he couldn't afford Doctors or prescriptions, so he suffered in silence. But he was able to pony up $200 bucks for a motel room Dr. certification..then spend $3000 setting up a grow room.

Do you think just maybe there are a lot pf people put there like him?
I watched my father for 25 years with rheumatoid arthritis.. i knew he was in pain. i could see it.

but did he complain?

no.


many people hide their pain.

i'm young and complaining is just negative thought.

i medicate because it keeps me positive and it relieves the pain.



I got certified the day my father died and my only remorse is that i did not get to spark up with him.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Bob Harris, I guess I can see where your question started but your opinion doesn't take into account some of the reasons folks dont have previous medical records. I myself have lived with CHRONIC pain for most of my adult life. I also trust the "medical community" about as much as I trust a crackhead asking for money. Maybe less, the crackhead's motives are plain and obvious. The doctor's are veiled by the notion that they are here to help and have taken the Hipocratic Oath. We trust them to have OUR best interests in mind. I dont think this is the case. I have multiple people in my family who work in the medical field and more that have been fucked up by doctors "practicing" medicine on them. It is a big money business and that is how it feels. "Try these pills, let me know how they help." It seems like everytime something is wrong with us it's time to break out the chemistry set and experement on the patient. It is more profitable to treat the ill than cure them. This takes me back to the original point. Because of my experiences with modern medicine, diagnosed ailments, fruitless surgeries, improperly set bone fractures and doctor visits that end with "Well you look healthy" and passes my physical without ever touching me or even looking for problems, you could say my faith in the fact that those assclowns have my best interest in heart is a joke to me. They are the drug dealing politicians we pay insurance premiums to go visit. The only thing a doctor ever tried to do to help me was give me pills, DRUG DEALER. We all think it's ok for these folks to pump chemicals into us without having a clue what is in it because we trust that they know what is best. They went to medical school right? It is just an eight year business school. I haven't met a whole lot of doctors that I trust I know a handful. I would only call them if I needed a decent golf partner...
I can understand that to a degree..but you lost me when you said all a doctor tried to do was give you pills. What would you like him to do..wave a magic wand? With cannabis you have the same situation, you have to find the strain that works best for you, in essence, the same trial and error method as asking "how did that work" by a doctor.
 

tomcatjones

Active Member
You are arguing legalization, or recreational use..not medical. You seem to have a legitimate source of chronic pain..that's fine..but those that don't are the ones causing the law to be challenged...and trust me, it's not just a "couple" of people using the law to "legalize" their recreational use..
if everyone understood the properties of cannabis - there wouldn't be a thing called recreational use.

i smoked the stuff maybe 3 times before i started my search on how bad the stuff was... then i found out i had been lied to about marijuana for all of my life.

it's about as medicinal as you can get and i've been using it medicinally for headaches for years now. 3+ years with no ibuprofen. or pills of any kind.

i also chalk up the fact that i've rarely been sick to my use - antimicrobial effects FTW.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
if everyone understood the properties of cannabis - there wouldn't be a thing called recreational use.

i smoked the stuff maybe 3 times before i started my search on how bad the stuff was... then i found out i had been lied to about marijuana for all of my life.

it's about as medicinal as you can get and i've been using it medicinally for headaches for years now. 3+ years with no ibuprofen. or pills of any kind.

i also chalk up the fact that i've rarely been sick to my use - antimicrobial effects FTW.

I agree..it's natural, has far fewer ill effects tan alcohol and doesn't hurt anyone. But we have to deal with the fact that our government, in it's infinite wisdom. has classified it as a schedule 1 drug.

I'm all for free access to cannabis. But all we have for now is a medical access. My point is that responsible use of the medical access may help with the long term goal of free access for everyone. But that abuses of the med law, just encourage those opposed to cannabis to say "see..we give an inch, they take a mile"
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Bob Harris, I guess I can see where your question started but your opinion doesn't take into account some of the reasons folks dont have previous medical records. I myself have lived with CHRONIC pain for most of my adult life. I also trust the "medical community" about as much as I trust a crackhead asking for money. Maybe less, the crackhead's motives are plain and obvious. The doctor's are veiled by the notion that they are here to help and have taken the Hipocratic Oath. We trust them to have OUR best interests in mind. I dont think this is the case. I have multiple people in my family who work in the medical field and more that have been fucked up by doctors "practicing" medicine on them. It is a big money business and that is how it feels. "Try these pills, let me know how they help." It seems like everytime something is wrong with us it's time to break out the chemistry set and experement on the patient. It is more profitable to treat the ill than cure them. This takes me back to the original point. Because of my experiences with modern medicine, diagnosed ailments, fruitless surgeries, improperly set bone fractures and doctor visits that end with "Well you look healthy" and passes my physical without ever touching me or even looking for problems, you could say my faith in the fact that those assclowns have my best interest in heart is a joke to me. They are the drug dealing politicians we pay insurance premiums to go visit. The only thing a doctor ever tried to do to help me was give me pills, DRUG DEALER. We all think it's ok for these folks to pump chemicals into us without having a clue what is in it because we trust that they know what is best. They went to medical school right? It is just an eight year business school. I haven't met a whole lot of doctors that I trust I know a handful. I would only call them if I needed a decent golf partner...

Well put lampworker! A lot of doctors are just drug dealers in a white robe with a degree hanging on the wall.

There are however some good ones out there, but they seem to be harder to find anymore.

Doctors are a product of our society. EVERYTHING has been tainted by greed in this capitalistic economy. Nothing is sacred .... even peoples health and well being.
 

bmf725

Well-Known Member
personally I think as far as making the medical community look bad that the dispensaries with huge pot leafs and billboard ad's are probably the biggest black eye. we dont need to throw medical marijuana in everyone's faces especially when some of those people still live in 1930's reefer madness thinking.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
personally I think as far as making the medical community look bad that the dispensaries with huge pot leafs and billboard ad's are probably the biggest black eye. we dont need to throw medical marijuana in everyone's faces especially when some of those people still live in 1930's reefer madness thinking.
I agree with that...If we want medical cannabis to be accepted as legitimate, the least we can do would be to stay low profile..
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
Your statistic means nothing. The vast majority of prescriptions for pain meds are short term scrips. Anyone who has a surgery, even a vasectomy, which I'd encourage you to get so we don't have little ones thinking like you, get pain meds to help short term through the recovery process.

The key word is not pain..it's chronic. Chronic means persistent..not going to go away. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if someone truly has chronic pain..they have sought help from a real Doctor, and have records, over a long period of time, showing treatment.

At least, I can't imagine someone suffering from CHRONIC pain, that would'nt seek help...or mention it to freinds...

Already have kids thank you, and they are very intelegent. I can understand why you would not want anyone to have kids that are free thinking, self responsible individuals. Harder for you to control the thoughts of, i understand that. but guess what bob, To fucking bad, My children will be the ones saving YOUR children's asses in another 15 yrs.

I have boney growths on my vertibrea. I ve had it my whole life. Modern Medicines fix then, and how, is to open me up from head to asshole, and use a hammer and chissel, or an 90* angle grinder, and knock or shave off the additional boney growths. Over the last 30 yrs of working, i have shards of bone that have chipped off my vertibrae that are now free floating around my spinal column. very tiny bone fragments that will disolve naturaly over time (bodys way of recycling) if they are small enough fragments. most are. but that doesnt fix anything, as the boney growth on the vertibrae continue to grow. This leaves me in constant dull pain, and when a piece of bone fragment gets in the right place, it binds up my spinal column, and i get sharp stabbing pain. this can go up to a 10 on what is called the Pain Meter (individual analysys as you noted, their is no medical way to identify and verify it, but they are working on a unit, hat measures the amount of electrical impulses the brain receives. Apparently they found the part of the brain the registers pain, and have been tracking the impulses it gets, to relational instances of things that are known causes of pain. Very cool technology, but very young still). It has been like this for me for the majority of my life from the time of being a teenager.

So my pain is constant, i would say around a 3 level, but i daily have instances where my spine locks up, binds and many times, pinches a nerve ending/s until i can get the bone/joint to adjust.

I also have DGD at L5/6, NDGD at L 4/5, severe, cronic subluxations of T 6-12, and SDG at C3,C4 and at the base of the skull.

Now at 14 my options were let the surgeon take a hammer and chissel to me spine, and live on prescribed opiates for the rest of my life, Doc said i would Never be fully out of pain even after surgery, and the surgery (this was in 1980) may even leave me partially, or perhaps fully, permanently disabled, and likey in a chair. Or I could live with it with a lifetime of Prescribed Pain Meds as Again, I would never be pain free. Ofcourse now we have nerve blocks and grinders, but the end result is still the same. I get a scare from my ass to my head, and a lifetime (whats left of it) of Prescribed pain meds...)

I Worked for a living. I didnt drive a desk for my career. I busted my ass, from working on a hey farm as a teen to earn money (yr after my drs visits for the surgery) to running ditch witches plowing line wiring the state for communications, to climbing telephone poles with gaffs for 6 yrs working for the cable industry, to roofing and drywalling and framing, back to the cable industry and then to a wireless communications company where my job was to climb Radio and TV towers to install equipment for High Speed Wireless Internet. Every been 700ft up on a radio tower? It can be Beautiful Scenery, but it can also be brutal work. 5 hrs to climb 700 ft up. pulling 200 lbs in gear up with you and a climbing partner.

I have also been a musician my entire adult life. I started playing guitar at 12, and at 14 picked up the base guitar, and off we went. I have played to shows of 10, up to 10,000, and thru the vast majority of it all, had to be my own roadie with my band...


I hurt through every part of it, and ive smoked cannabis thru it all.
or i could of had surgery at 14 and rolled the dice on being able to walk, but still have the pain ive had while i did the things above. you know, those things MOST people call LIVING responsibly.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Already have kids thank you, and they are very intelegent. I can understand why you would not want anyone to have kids that are free thinking, self responsible individuals. Harder for you to control the thoughts of, i understand that. but guess what bob, To fucking bad, My children will be the ones saving YOUR children's asses in another 15 yrs.
But you don't come across as free thinking and responsible. You come across as a torch bearing zealot, who's only cause is to let anyone do anything they wish with regards to cannabis.
 

khakiman

Active Member
the whole thing is bullshit and everyone knows it....... except you.

they will fight for criminalization and we will fight for legalization. the medical front is where we stand at this point.
 
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