Chronic Pain

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bob harris

Well-Known Member
khakiman said:
the whole thing is bullshit and everyone knows it....... except you.

they will fight for criminalization and we will fight for legalization. the medical front is where we stand at this point.
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The whole thing isn't bullshit. Legalization and medical use are far different arguments. I'm all for decriminalization, and eventual access to cannabis much as access is available to alcohol. But the way to go about that isn't to use a med law to to justify other uses.
 
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boneheadbob

Well-Known Member
Bob is correct in that many people get a MM card so they can get high. Pain is minor and herb probaly does not relieve it.

So what?
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
boneheadbob said:
Bob is correct in that many people get a MM card so they can get high. Pain is minor and herb probaly does not relieve it.

So what?
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The "so what" is that those people are the ones causing the anti cannabis people to say that the med laws are only serving to create "legal stoners"..which in turn, makes it easier to justify the tightening, or repeal, of a med law. And that only hampers any hope of decriminalization for everyone.
 
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cheeswreck

New Member
if people ran there own lives as well as they think they can run others the world would b a great place.....untill then fire it up and chill
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
lampworker said:
Bob Harris, I guess I can see where your question started but your opinion doesn't take into account some of the reasons folks dont have previous medical records. I myself have lived with CHRONIC pain for most of my adult life. I also trust the "medical community" about as much as I trust a crackhead asking for money. Maybe less, the crackhead's motives are plain and obvious. The doctor's are veiled by the notion that they are here to help and have taken the Hipocratic Oath. We trust them to have OUR best interests in mind. I dont think this is the case. I have multiple people in my family who work in the medical field and more that have been fucked up by doctors "practicing" medicine on them. It is a big money business and that is how it feels. "Try these pills, let me know how they help." It seems like everytime something is wrong with us it's time to break out the chemistry set and experement on the patient. It is more profitable to treat the ill than cure them. This takes me back to the original point. Because of my experiences with modern medicine, diagnosed ailments, fruitless surgeries, improperly set bone fractures and doctor visits that end with "Well you look healthy" and passes my physical without ever touching me or even looking for problems, you could say my faith in the fact that those assclowns have my best interest in heart is a joke to me. They are the drug dealing politicians we pay insurance premiums to go visit. The only thing a doctor ever tried to do to help me was give me pills, DRUG DEALER. We all think it's ok for these folks to pump chemicals into us without having a clue what is in it because we trust that they know what is best. They went to medical school right? It is just an eight year business school. I haven't met a whole lot of doctors that I trust I know a handful. I would only call them if I needed a decent golf partner...
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Exactly!

fore
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
Timmahh said:
TY and Bravo. See, we arnt so different afterall. heh.
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Good point. A patient really should only be concerned with their condition and what helps them. But a State, or a Country, should be concerned with some legitimacy for someone getting prescription meds of any kind. And when that state or country, see abuses in the system, they are going to make things harder for everyone. including the legitimate patients.

So although I see your point, I don't understand how it helps or relates to any long term solution. And isn't a long term solution what we'd all like to see?
 
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boneheadbob

Well-Known Member
bob harris said:
The "so what" is that those people are the ones causing the anti cannabis people to say that the med laws are only serving to create "legal stoners"..which in turn, makes it easier to justify the tightening, or repeal, of a med law. And that only hampers any hope of decriminalization for everyone.
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The media is owned by the same bankers who control fedgov.con. They may paint that story but it is not true and the last thing that is needed is for users to run around like you are doing saying PUT OUT THE FIRE when there is no fire.

Most people have accepted the fact that herb is less dangerous then alcohol and scrips. Your fight is against a goverment that wants to control the people, not the people who want to use herb like some use alcohol
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
boneheadbob said:
The media is owned by the same bankers who control fedgov.con. They may paint that story but it is not true and the last thing that is needed is for users to run around like you are doing saying PUT OUT THE FIRE when there is no fire.

Most people have accepted the fact that herb is less dangerous then alcohol and scrips. Your fight is against a goverment that wants to control the people, not the people who want to use herb like some use alcohol
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I agree..and the best way to change the governments mind, in my opinion, is to act responsibly with what we have won so far. So far, we've been given a limited med law. All I'm saying, is if we can't use that as intended, why would the government allow us more lenient laws?
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
Now as far as records, I have yet been able to secure any records from the early 80s, most drs are dead and most records destroyed or lost. I have one ER visit for when i injured my lower back moving scaffolding in the mid 90s, with a script for Pain Meds, and a referral to a Chiropractor. Which i have been seeing since i was a teen. Now a Chiro cant Prescribe meds, there for cant recommend Cannbis. But i Do have Some records, But most were lost in a fire the Chiro office had in 07, i pretty much cut my chiro care out as i lost my job, lost my insurance, and just could not afford the 60.00 office visits anymore.

So when it came time to get my orig cert in 2010, all i could come up with is the ER letter which the hospital didnt even have on record. I was one of 3 records that didnt get burnt up in the 07 fire at the chiro office.


So this goes to what Gladstoned brang up. Which is exactly the point Dr Kumar Singh presented to Legislature via a Testimonial he submitted.
That is he is a Dr. He has the degree and the piece of paper on the wall he got from the State of Michigan that Says he is a Dr. It is HIS Career to make MEDICAL Determinations every day. It is his Career to determine what a patients issue is, and what likely benefits if any, the patient would receive from ANY medical treatments, and ANY drugs of any nature. Then it is up to the Patient to accept and follow that Drs recommended path of treatment, or to not accept it, and get other medical opinions.

Its Your Body, not mine, not your buddys, not the doctors, and it sure as hell is not the State of Michigans


  • But you don't come across as free thinking and responsible. You come across as a torch bearing zealot, who's only cause is to let anyone do anything they wish with regards to cannabis.​


    ​
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And where is it MY right to tell you you MUST do anything in regards to your life, body, persuit of happiness and how you perceive personal freedoms. Where is it My right to tell you and your Dr how to heal yourself, And where is it the States right to do it?

Where cannabis is concerned, Yes, I do Support whatever use. Recreational, Industrial for Lubricants, Fuel, Soap, Rope, Clothing, Food, Plastics, and even Medical.
you forget im a Real Conservative, Personal Freedom and Liberty are the only things that matter and so long as your not making a rope up out of the hemp, to lasso up a fellow american and hang them with it, i dont give 2 shits what you or anyone else does with cannabis.

Well that isnt true actually, I care about what Cool and Usefull, and Healthy, and Good for the Earth and Humanity products you could make and share with the world. yes even this evil capitalistic monarchy we call the USA>
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
bob harris said:
Good point. A patient really should only be concerned with their condition and what helps them. But a State, or a Country, should be concerned with some legitimacy for someone getting prescription meds of any kind. And when that state or country, see abuses in the system, they are going to make things harder for everyone. including the legitimate patients.

So although I see your point, I don't understand how it helps or relates to any long term solution. And isn't a long term solution what we'd all like to see?
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just keep this thought in mind on this topic Bob. You are asking our Corrupt Government ( remember, Michigan just landed number 46 on the list of most corrupted States in the USA) to make right in good faith, something THEY say is corrupt. Isnt that the Thiff calling the Robber a person that Steals from others?
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
Now with that said, I fully understand and appreciate your point of we have a Medical Exception to being prosecuted for cannabis use, and that there may indeed be those that have been certified who perhaps maybe use it recreationally. But even then, they are still getting medical benefits of it like taking a vitamin every day, drinking a glass of OJ, or perhaps taking an aspirin every day, or even using aspercreme on those sore and achy hands.,\

but i dont, and cant agree to the original topic, especially when dealing with Pain, that while real to every individual, can only be verbalized for reference to its severity.
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
Timmahh said:
Now as far as records, I have yet been able to secure any records from the early 80s, most drs are dead and most records destroyed or lost. I have one ER visit for when i injured my lower back moving scaffolding in the mid 90s, with a script for Pain Meds, and a referral to a Chiropractor. Which i have been seeing since i was a teen. Now a Chiro cant Prescribe meds, there for cant recommend Cannbis. But i Do have Some records, But most were lost in a fire the Chiro office had in 07, i pretty much cut my chiro care out as i lost my job, lost my insurance, and just could not afford the 60.00 office visits anymore.

So when it came time to get my orig cert in 2010, all i could come up with is the ER letter which the hospital didnt even have on record. I was one of 3 records that didnt get burnt up in the 07 fire at the chiro office.


So this goes to what Gladstoned brang up. Which is exactly the point Dr Kumar Singh presented to Legislature via a Testimonial he submitted.
That is he is a Dr. He has the degree and the piece of paper on the wall he got from the State of Michigan that Says he is a Dr. It is HIS Career to make MEDICAL Determinations every day. It is his Career to determine what a patients issue is, and what likely benefits if any, the patient would receive from ANY medical treatments, and ANY drugs of any nature. Then it is up to the Patient to accept and follow that Drs recommended path of treatment, or to not accept it, and get other medical opinions.

Its Your Body, not mine, not your buddys, not the doctors, and it sure as hell is not the State of Michigans



And where is it MY right to tell you you MUST do anything in regards to your life, body, persuit of happiness and how you perceive personal freedoms. Where is it My right to tell you and your Dr how to heal yourself, And where is it the States right to do it?

Where cannabis is concerned, Yes, I do Support whatever use. Recreational, Industrial for Lubricants, Fuel, Soap, Rope, Clothing, Food, Plastics, and even Medical.
you forget im a Real Conservative, Personal Freedom and Liberty are the only things that matter and so long as your not making a rope up out of the hemp, to lasso up a fellow american and hang them with it, i dont give 2 shits what you or anyone else does with cannabis.

Well that isnt true actually, I care about what Cool and Usefull, and Healthy, and Good for the Earth and Humanity products you could make and share with the world. yes even this evil capitalistic monarchy we call the USA>
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Nice long post, which dosen't say much of anything in regards to medical mj. The chiropractor not being able to prescribe is relevant. But most legitimate doctors can't endorse cannabis use either. My Parkinson's doctor freely admits cannabis is a viable option. But he works for a major Hospital, that prohibits Dr's from formally endorsing cannabis. Hence, I had to go to a "cannabis clinic" to get my card too. Difference being, I had a inch thick stack of of past, and present,documentation for on going treatment, for a diagnosed chronic, progressive and debilitating condition.

So, are you saying that it would be bad if the State actually require someone like you, that has lost their documentation, to undergo a true physical examination, with xrays, performed by a Neutral Dr. that can't officially recommend cannabis as a treatment, to re establish that there is an ongoing, chronic and debilitating sorce of pain, before you can get a cannabis certification? To me, that would seem reasonable.

And the argument "I can't afford that' simply is bullshit. Every one who can't afford to see a Real doctor, seems to be able to cough up a couple hundred bucks for a certification, and has the money to buy the cannabis, or grow equipment after they get certified. So my question remains, what made them willing to cough up the money for a cannabis certification, when they were "unable" to pay for traditional medical services before cannabis became available? Pleny of low cost/no cost medical clinics out there for those in need.
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
and i had 2 pieces of paper, which is all i could get. how is your illness any more or less real than mine, because you had 1 inch of records, and I had 2 pieces of paper. one from the ER and one 2 paragraph from my Chiro outlining my care at their office.
Had I not had a job that offered insurance (most dont in my trade) i would of likely Never went to the ER. thus the Chiropractor. Thus the only records I would of been able to present is my voice, and my body, to a Dr. that is Taught, Trained, and Licenced to make an Authorized Medical Evaluation of my physical health by speaking with me, and doing a simple physical exam.


What you are proposing, is if you dont have a Primary Care Physician that Cant, or Wont write your rec, the hell with you? you must be a stoner looking to break the law?

maybe that is not what you mean to be saying, but your statments are saying exactly that.

sounds like we are on the same topic, and even same side, but coming from different angles.

to groundline it, Its up to the Patient and ANY Dr they are seeing, to determine best path forward for their health.

the State has Already given the right for the Dr to make that choice with you (wihtout their (states) interferance) by issuing a license to the Dr to practice medicine in the State. Thus their is Zero reason for the state to try to make MORE medical record needs because We the People said Cannabis is Medicine, opposed to the State itself.
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
Timmahh said:
and i had 2 pieces of paper, which is all i could get. how is your illness any more or less real than mine, because you had 1 inch of records, and I had 2 pieces of paper. one from the ER and one 2 paragraph from my Chiro outlining my care at their office.
Had I not had a job that offered insurance (most dont in my trade) i would of likely Never went to the ER. thus the Chiropractor. Thus the only records I would of been able to present is my voice, and my body, to a Dr. that is Taught, Trained, and Licenced to make an Authorized Medical Evaluation of my physical health by speaking with me, and doing a simple physical exam.


What you are proposing, is if you dont have a Primary Care Physician that Cant, or Wont write your rec, the hell with you? you must be a stoner looking to break the law?

maybe that is not what you mean to be saying, but your statments are saying exactly that.
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My statements don't reflect that at all. And yes..a Dr. can't asses the need for pain meds in one simple office visit. A thorough exam is going to find something that is medically definable as a source of pain. Something will show on an xray..an underlining cause, such as diabetes, which could cause neuropathy a true diagnosis. Your saying a cert should be as easy as finding a Dr. that takes your word for it. Try getting traditional pain killers that way..good luck. An old er visit and a couple chiro visits only shows something bothered you way back when...dosen't come close to 'chronic, and debilitating"
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member

  • Your saying a cert should be as easy as finding a Dr. that takes your word for it. Try getting traditional pain killers that way..good luck.​


    ​
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perfect example. You are SO wrong on this account. Ok RIU Members, how many Pain Scripts do you know folks get without any real reasons?

So i have a knee, that i can make pop on comand, my ankle too. You would swear i broke a bone if you heard it. I can make this knee and ankle crack and pop almost at will, every 3 to 5 minutes. They give me ZERO discomfort, even when they are popping and snapping. But over 30 plus years i have a HIGH pain tolerance. Others may feel it every inch of the way, but for me my knee and ankle dont hurt at all.


But i can walk into the ER or Ready Med here in town, tell them my knee hurts, that i twisted it a few months back and its still hurting. they ll take a few xrays, see minimal issues, but when the Dr palpitates my knee/ankle, they will Feel the bones rubbing and grinding, and i can gaurentee they ll whip out the rx pad and off to the pharmacy for 180 vics i go.

2.7 million prescriptions in Nov 2011 for pain meds. i stil dont see the issue you are having with 100,000 pain certs in the states mmp program.
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
an old er visit and over 10 yrs of documented Chiro visits that were lost in a fire... thank you very much. only because the records i had 30 yrs ago are lost and cant be found/recovered.

and if you must know, i just had to pay 320.00 for a knew full set of xrays from my chiropractors office, and a 50.00 off visit for each week I go get an adjustment. my pain is cronic, and alot of the time by the minute...


with that said, im taking my old broken up stoner ass that is just using my fake pain to get high and going outside to finish digging in the 4 ft hand dug hole im putting in, so i can pour footings for a new foundation for a grow area im building on the edge of my yard.... before i go and cut the lawn, i ll go behind the garage, and fire it up.


yup, me and my fake pain are just making you a criminal bob.
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
Timmahh said:
perfect example. You are SO wrong on this account. Ok RIU Members, how many Pain Scripts do you know folks get without any real reasons?

So i have a knee, that i can make pop on comand, my ankle too. You would swear i broke a bone if you heard it. I can make this knee and ankle crack and pop almost at will, every 3 to 5 minutes. They give me ZERO discomfort, even when they are popping and snapping. But over 30 plus years i have a HIGH pain tolerance. Others may feel it every inch of the way, but for me my knee and ankle dont hurt at all.


But i can walk into the ER or Ready Med here in town, tell them my knee hurts, that i twisted it a few months back and its still hurting. they ll take a few xrays, see minimal issues, but when the Dr palpitates my knee/ankle, they will Feel the bones rubbing and grinding, and i can gaurentee they ll whip out the rx pad and off to the pharmacy for 180 vics i go.

2.7 million prescriptions in Nov 2011 for pain meds. i stil dont see the issue you are having with 100,000 pain certs in the states mmp program.
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Yes..they may write you a scrip. But they won't give you 180 vicodin , more like 10, or 20. nor will the give you all the refills you want for a full year at a time.

I still don't see how YOU don't see the difference in what the med law was intended for, and how you wish it to be applied.
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
bull. I can go to 20 doctors here in my home town, and i can guarantee atleast 1/2 will give a full months script, put you in phy therapy, and re issue the script as they and you see fit. and Yes the other 1/2 will say ice it down, stay off it, some may even give a script as you suggest. but the next one will do the 180 every month if you show them the need, and my popping and cracking knee every few minutes would so that.

and neither bother me. point im making, i have many ways/reasons to prove to a dr I COULD use pain meds like Darvon, Vicoden ect.. but I DONT believe they will help me, only help me make it worse by hiding the pain, thus injuring the problem more. Pain it your bodies Load Limit meter, Turn the meter off you can get to heavy a load.

I have Zero Issue with anyone using cannabis for any pain relief, Even over bayer aspirin, which i remind you causes over 1400 deaths a year on its own.
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
Timmahh said:
bull. I can go to 20 doctors here in my home town, and i can guarantee atleast 1/2 will give a full months script, put you in phy therapy, and re issue the script as they and you see fit. and Yes the other 1/2 will say ice it down, stay off it, some may even give a script as you suggest. but the next one will do the 180 every month if you show them the need, and my popping and cracking knee every few minutes would so that.

and neither bother me. point im making, i have many ways/reasons to prove to a dr I COULD use pain meds like Darvon, Vicoden ect.. but I DONT believe they will help me, only help me make it worse by hiding the pain, thus injuring the problem more. Pain it your bodies Load Limit meter, Turn the meter off you can get to heavy a load.

I have Zero Issue with anyone using cannabis for any pain relief, Even over bayer aspirin, which i remind you causes over 1400 deaths a year on its own.
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Again, you are babbling about what you want. Not about anything to do with the intent of the med law. you are a prime example of someone hiding behind the med law so you can 'legally' get a buzz..
 
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