Organics ARE chemicals

[doc111]

I'm referring to Cargill, Monsanto, Dow Chemical, etc. These people view us as sheep for fleecing

A lot of people want to lump all business in with the bad ones. It's definitely a good thing to single out the bad guys.

 

[Rrog]

Totally agree. I use the term "corporation" loosely, but I'm describing global multi-nationals. Small local companies are not the nemesis.

 

[SmokeyMcSmokester]

organics taste better??
[video=youtube;8Zqe4ZV9LDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs[/video]

 

[Rrog]

People that grow organic veggies will tell you they do

 

[VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO]

organics taste better??
[video=youtube;8Zqe4ZV9LDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs[/video]

that was awesome, just shows how full of shit most people are.

 

[doc111]

organics taste better??
[video=youtube;8Zqe4ZV9LDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs[/video]

That was fucking hilarious!!!!!

Here's an interesting study I pulled of the net:


http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2011/04/10/organic-label-seems-to-make-food-taste-better

SUNDAY, April 10 (HealthDay News) -- An "organic" label on foods is enough to make people believe the food items are healthier and tastier, new research suggests.
The study included 144 volunteers who were asked to compare what they believed were conventionally and organically produced chocolate sandwich cookies, plain yogurt and potato chips. All of the products were actually organic, but they were labeled as either "regular" or "organic."
The participants used a scale of 1 to 9 to rate each of the products on 10 attributes, such as overall taste and perception of fat content. They were also asked to estimate the number of calories in each food item and how much they would be willing to pay for each product.
The investigators found that participants preferred almost all of the taste characteristics of the foods labeled as "organic," even though they were identical to those labeled as "regular."
The food items with "organic" labels were also perceived as being lower in fat, higher in fiber, significantly lower in calories and worth more money, according to study author Jenny Wan-chen Lee, a graduate student in Cornell University's Dyson School of Applied Economics and Management.
In addition, chips and cookies labeled "organic" were judged to be more nutritious than those believed to be non-organic.
Lee conducted the study to test the theory that people are influenced by what is described as "the halo effect," according to background information in a news release from the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology. In this case, the researchers set out to see if the "health halo" -- the perception that an item that is labeled "organic" is therefore nutritious -- would lead people to believe that the "organic" foods tasted better.
The study was slated for presentation Sunday at the Experimental Biology annual meeting, in Washington, D.C., of the American Society for Nutrition.
Because this research was presented at a medical meeting, the data and conclusions should be viewed as preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal.
More information
The American Academy of Family Physicians offers nutrition advice.
Copyright © 2011 HealthDay. All rights reserved.
Tags:organic food, food and drink, psychology, behavior, diet and nutrition

I think the power of suggestion is often underestimated when it comes to subjective things such as taste. Unfortunately, most of the studies I found as it relates to health and organic foods seem to suggest that there is no appreciable difference in how healthy organic food is compared to conventionally produced food. I personally believe the power of suggestion is so powerful that if people actually believe they are eating something that is healthier for them, they may actually end up being healthier and living longer. Who knows?

 

[Rrog]

My thought is that fertilizers upset the balance in soil. In a bucket in your house, who cares. Outside, fertilizers do a lot of damage.

Maybe the organic growers are all being duped, but I tend to follow the anecdotal evidence of experienced farmers. That study linked was comprised of average consumers and I suspect some company may have simply been trying to make a point.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1989564,00.html

I'd like to err on the side of caution and eat /smoke / drink products free of man-made additives.

 

[Nullis]

That part there really messes my head up....They use every kind of feces there is, dead animal and plant parts, you know, decaying rotting matter to feed the plants and this is "cleaner" than synthetics made in a laboratory environment? Which are the same "nasty chemicals" that make it possible to produce all the food they eat? Without these "evil synthetics" there WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH FOOD FOR US!! Let us just throw out logic in favor of "it makes me fell good". Ok doc, nice seeing you for sure bro but I am unscribing here as am tired of wasting facts on ...well I will just stop there....Enjoy your little bubble worlds "organnies" before they implode

Namaste

You really don't seem to understand the organic growing style (living organics), and your claim seems dubious. You obviously have this extreme, ill-informed, stereotypical archetype that you hold every organic grower\supporter to (obviously you pay highly into these supposed buzz\bubble-words). Now, if anything, such pervasive over-use of chemical fertilizers and other agro-chemicals is going to lead to a food crisis, as soils become increasing less alive; less fertile and there is less competition from other members of the soil food web against pests. Broad-spectrum pesticides will also kill off the harmless and beneficial species of insects that keep pest insect populations at bay, and they have to be applied continuously.

Organic growers don't use "every kind of feces there is", or whole animal carcasses, or whatever you suppose. In certified organic crop production the only manures used come mostly from strict herbivores (most bats are fruit eaters, though others eat insects) and they're composted. Feces of omnivores or carnivores is not allowed. Humans feces is not 'organic'; hence sewage sludge is not organic and disallowed. Sludge is, however, marketed and spread as fertilizer on many non-certified organic crop fields.
Blood and bone-meals are used by many (usually bovine-sourced), or hydrolyzed fish, fish-bone, crab and feather-meal fertilizers... still not from just any species of animal and not any part. In garden compost and castings especially there are no animal fats or proteins or other materials that make for nasty decaying matter. Garden compost just smells sweet and earthy, as do humus and earthworm castings... nothing dirty about it, fully alive and humate-rich.

A lot of organic fertilizers (dry granulars) have high contents of industry-byproducts, such as bone-meal, feather meal, cocoa meal, poultry and other manures and various other materials that have a good use in agriculture feeding the soil as opposed to in a land-fill. Composting, vermiculture and soil recycling are the best things you can do as an organic grower as you're directly recycling the nutrients in vegetative wastes that would otherwise really just be wasted and thrown away. A lot of people also just plain find living organics to be easy and fulfilling, indoors and out. All I have to do is mix up a rich well conditioned soil from the start, maybe top feed a couple times and brew a compost tea every other week or so.

 

[Rrog]

It'll be an ongoing argument for a long time. More studies come out everyday, and they're sure not saying chemicals are good for you. The freakish increase in autism, diabetes (now 366 million and counting), ADS, auto-immune disorders are caused by our man-made environmental factors. Just like the tree-huggers always said. Who the hell ever heard of peanut, lactose and gluten allergies when we were kids? Now they segregate school lunchrooms.

I thought the movie "Dirt, The Movie" had some telling points. We've replaced good old compost with bagged chemicals and we've screwed our kids, the environment, you name it.

Screw it. Everyone here is free to ingest whatever the hell they want.

 

[doc111]

My thought is that fertilizers upset the balance in soil. In a bucket in your house, who cares. Outside, fertilizers do a lot of damage.

Maybe the organic growers are all being duped, but I tend to follow the anecdotal evidence of experienced farmers. That study linked was comprised of average consumers and I suspect some company may have simply been trying to make a point.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1989564,00.html

I'd like to err on the side of caution and eat /smoke / drink products free of man-made additives.

Studies CAN be misleading. It didn't seem like that outlet had an agenda but who knows? I am a firm believer in personal choice. If drinking/eating/smoking/vaping "organic" makes you feel like you are leading a healthier lifestyle then go for it! Like I said, I grow and buy/eat/drink/grow organic when possible. I think both sides need to admit that there is a POSSIBILITY that the health benefit of comsuming "organically" produced goods may be minimal, if a benefit truly exists at all, and that we could be doing irrepairable harm by using chemical ferts and pesticides. We just don't know at this point. Perhaps further studies will give us a better idea if there is any REAL benefit to growing/consuming organic products. In the meantime I will keep on doing the best I can. Organic food is fucking expensive sometimes! lol!

 

[Rrog]

The two issues (other than price, 'cause you're sure right about that) are the health quality of the produce being grown and second, the damage and sustainability of chemical growing crops. I'm talking produce not weed. This week came a serious study that I linked to earlier regarding pesticides and attention deficit disorders. The printed two word recommendation for moms: "BUY ORGANIC"

The next issue is the damage to the soil and water microlife from fertilizers and pesticides. I don't think anyone here would say that global farming hasn't hurt the environment something awful.

I believe food production has failed on both counts. We're trapped using chem ferts to grow corn, and stuck spraying for bugs since we've killed off all natural defenses. Farmers make shit while CEOs at Monsanto can buy nations. This is fucked up.

 

[Rrog]

As a side note, I respect everyone here and everyone has a right to an opinion. I'm not sure why I wandered to this provocative thread, as I knew full well not one opinion would be changed. And that's cool, since I'm not a paid lobbyist. Cargil and Monsanto have them all! Hahaha. Sorry. I wish compost and earthworms could afford lobbyists.

This thread might be the Chemics vs. the Organics, but let's keep in mind that we are all on the same side here.

 

[doc111]

As a side note, I respect everyone here and everyone has a right to an opinion. I'm not sure why I wandered to this provocative thread, as I knew full well not one opinion would be changed. And that's cool, since I'm not a paid lobbyist. Cargil and Monsanto have them all! Hahaha. Sorry. I wish compost and earthworms could afford lobbyists.

This thread might be the Chemics vs. the Organics, but let's keep in mind that we are all on the same side here.

It's all good. I think it's remained fairly civil TBH. Not sure if you looked at the posts from about a year ago but many have been deleted because it got so out of hand. I wouldn't say "not one opinion was changed". I try to maintain objectivity. I'm neither a hardcore organic lover nor hater. I think both "organic" and "conventional" methods have their place. Perhaps one day we will figure out a way to use more natural means to get the desired results out of mother nature, but generally speaking, "conventional" methods outperform "organic" in yields which is all most people and corporations care about. Some people argue that flavor is affected by different methods but we've seen where taste and smell may be just a bit too subjective and we all know that psychology must play at least a small role (and in some cases a HUGE role). I totally agree with you though........we are all on the same side.

 

[Illumination]

Whatever....but I don't see how it's supposed to be a money making scam...
I pay way less to mix organic nutes than I do on synthetic nutes. If anything, it's the chemical nutrient market that's trying to capitalize on the sipmplicity of organics. They don't want you to know that you can get the same results or better by paying 1/4 of the price.

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/biothrive.html
http://www.atami.ca/
http://www.americanagritech.com/organicare
http://advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/products/mother_earth_super_tea/mother_earth_super_tea_product_information.php
http://www.neptunesharvest.com/
See it at all now there Beans?

 

[Corbat420]

I pay way less to mix organic nutes than I do on synthetic nutes. If anything, it's the chemical nutrient market that's trying to capitalize on the sipmplicity of organics. They don't want you to know that you can get the same results or better by paying 1/4 of the price.

Worm Castings, $20
Bat Guano, $10
Seabird Guano $12
Kelp $15
Molassis $5
Morbloom $18

having Enough organic fertilizer for 40-50 plants for less than $100 that taste like fruit. priceless... haha i had to say it....

i would pay $500+ for hydro fertilizers that do what $75 in organic fertilizers does. then there is someone like me who can harvest the bat / seabird guano, make the worm castings and organic soil..... meaning i only spend $ on seeds and Liquid fertilizers..... i spend like $10 per plant, total. soil, dry and wet fertilizer included.

What beans is saying is Hydroponic fertilizers are a MAJOR scam. you can get the same, or better bud by spending WAY less.

and heres the proof.
BC big bud x NYCDiesel 100% Organic. 32 grams 12/12 from seed.....

 

[Rrog]

but generally speaking, "conventional" methods outperform "organic" in yields which is all most people and corporations care about.

Just another chance to say that back when we started really understanding plants physiology and biochemistry, we started with chem ferts. dozens of years ago. Relatively little study done trying to understand how to optimize nature. Huge studies done to advance the multi-billion $ fertilizer (from oil) and consequently pesticide business.

And these "turn a blind eye" commercial farming practices have ruined the environment. Commercial farming isn't desirable or sustainable. And once again, the latest data shows we've harmed ourselves by blindly eating it for decades. Know an autistic kid? a diabetic? Someone with auto-immune issues? You might thank the commercial food industry.

 

[doc111]

Just another chance to say that back when we started really understanding plants physiology and biochemistry, we started with chem ferts. dozens of years ago. Relatively little study done trying to understand how to optimize nature. Huge studies done to advance the multi-billion $ fertilizer (from oil) and consequently pesticide business.

And these "turn a blind eye" commercial farming practices have ruined the environment. Commercial farming isn't desirable or sustainable. And once again, the latest data shows we've harmed ourselves by blindly eating it for decades. Know an autistic kid? a diabetic? Someone with auto-immune issues? You might thank the commercial food industry.

You may be correct but the studies just aren't there yet. I honestly hope they do pin those diseases down to SOME cause.

 

[Corbat420]

I honestly hope they do pin those diseases down to SOME cause.

Diabetes : When the Body Stops producing insolin due to High levels of suger in the blood. there is almost no Diabetes in africa, asia, eurasia or south america, simpley due to the fact that they dont have the sugar content in their foods. North America is going through a diabetes epidemic, which can be DIRECTLY tracked back to the commercial and fast food networks. start to look at labels, dont look at whats in there look at the calorie rating and compair it to the carbohydrates. ALOT of the time its 30%+ Sugar.......

Autism : is a developmental disorder that appears in the first 3 years of life, and affects the brain's normal development of social and communication skills. One of the MAIN Causes of autism is high levels of Mercury, Boron, Manganese, Lead, Aluminum or one of many other metals. North America and Europe are the only places on the planet where autism make such a large appearance that it has now become a "public" issue.

Look up Hydroponic Fertalizers and Chelated Metals. Learn what Chelation actualy is..... there is a reason the Ash from Hydro Plants burns BLACK. when my organic is done burning the ashes are white.....
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&ei=mMJ0TqmANe_TiAL4kPizAg&ved=0CB8QvwUoAQ&q=chelated+metals+hydroponic+fertilizer&spell=1&biw=1680&bih=910

P.S: no hydroponic fertalizers cant cause diabetes. i was just trying to make a point

 

[nog]

everything is a chemical, i think the word organic is getting misused, its how the chemical is produced for the plant, ie is it recyled kitchem waste or a salt the production of which had produced lots of co2 or whatever. but yes the shit turned into a chemical for the plant to use it. its organic if it contains a carbon atom?

 

[Corbat420]

everything is a chemical, i think the word organic is getting misused, its how the chemical is produced for the plant, ie is it recyled kitchem waste or a salt the production of which had produced lots of co2 or whatever. but yes the shit turned into a chemical for the plant to use it. its organic if it contains a carbon atom?

heres one for all you simple people out there to usless to pick up a dictionary.

Organic (or-Gan-ik)
1. Any substance which is derived from Living Matter
2. of, or relating to, any compound containing a carbon Molecule (other than simple bianary compounds, and salts.)

See that "Other Than" SALTS. Hydroponic fertalizers are derived from salts, such as ammonium chloride, calcium chloride, Iron EDTA, and MANY other chemicals that if you were to drink, you would DIE.

i figured i would repost it since you didnt read thw whole thing its on the last page.

Chelated metals and Salts are what Hydroponic Fertalizers are made out of. most of this shit you should be scared to have kids around.......... wonder what would happen if your dog, or kid... drank calcium chloride in your CalMag substitute, or the Potassium Nitrate in the Bloom Booster......