Questions about Obamacare

hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately the effects of legislation are not spelled out in the bills. I'm still looking for how this would cut costs, increase competition and increase choice as the proponents claim. By the way, those are all conservative principle that are the hallmarks of what the free market does. Government programs never accomplish those things - never. In order to sell it they are trying to pretend it is the exact opposite of what it is.
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I think what your worried about is how eventually the insurance companies, pharm companies, and hospitals are going to figure out ways to screw the system and steal as much money out of it as possible.

It is scary because we won't know until it is too late. But once you start to see huge profits from them and hear every neighbor talking about how they are turning and burning this new way to make money off of it, you are looking at the created bubble from it. But it usually takes a decade or two before that happens.

The thing is we are hurting from the legislation of the 70's with the HMOs now, and need to come up with some kind of system that will eventually be taken advantage of in the future. Just hopefully we will have a little better foresight.

What will happen if I decide I don't need it or want to participate ? Can I say no thanks?
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Sure you can, I said you could. But if you do you will have to pay the 2.5%.

And the whole taxes = slavery bit is played. Nobody has a gun to your head, you can decide to do anything you want. You won't get a gun to your head for not paying taxes, but you may if you resisted arrest for the tax evasion. Most likely they will just stun gun your ass or tackle you.


Mussolini said that Fascism was the merger of state and corporate powers


how is what has happened in the last year in america not fascism
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Well under your insane ideal that encompasses anything that you disagree with as fascist, communist, socialist, you would be hard pressed to find an example that would actually make you say "Hmmm, I guess I was wrong."
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I think what your worried about is how eventually the insurance companies, pharm companies, and hospitals are going to figure out ways to screw the system and steal as much money out of it as possible.

It is scary because we won't know until it is too late. But once you start to see huge profits from them and hear every neighbor talking about how they are turning and burning this new way to make money off of it, you are looking at the created bubble from it. But it usually takes a decade or two before that happens.

The thing is we are hurting from the legislation of the 70's with the HMOs now, and need to come up with some kind of system that will eventually be taken advantage of in the future. Just hopefully we will have a little better foresight.

Sure you can, I said you could. But if you do you will have to pay the 2.5%.

And the whole taxes = slavery bit is played. Nobody has a gun to your head, you can decide to do anything you want. You won't get a gun to your head for not paying taxes, but you may if you resisted arrest for the tax evasion. Most likely they will just stun gun your ass or tackle you.




Well under your insane ideal that encompasses anything that you disagree with as fascist, communist, socialist, you would be hard pressed to find an example that would actually make you say "Hmmm, I guess I was wrong."
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If 0% taxes is freedom and 100% taxes is slavery, are additional mandatory programs and/or taxes moving us closer to freedom or to slavery?
 
OregonMeds

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
If 0% taxes is freedom and 100% taxes is slavery, are additional mandatory programs and/or taxes moving us closer to freedom or to slavery?
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If 100% of my ass itching is hell and 0% of my ass itching is blissful should I grab a cheese grater, just scratch it by hand, or tickle it?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
OregonMeds said:
If 100% of my ass itching is hell and 0% of my ass itching is blissful should I grab a cheese grater, just scratch it by hand, or tickle it?
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You should ask Obama for permission to scratch your ass. I heard ass scratching was a "right".
 
cackpircings

cackpircings

Well-Known Member
It’s not like just because people have a government funded health plan they are going to run to the hospital. It’s going to be the people that really need it, the hypochondriacs, and those that have addictions to benzo’s. People never research stuff they just form their opinion off “he said she said” bull shit. We need something in this country, and there is one road block; insurance companies. They are the ultimate reason why this is having more problems than it should because it is going to force prices to be regulated, and not allow the insurers to double and triple dip the customers for charges. This is going to cause them to take a huge punch in the pocket. I support Obama’s plan and hope that we finally see some success on the health care issue. Anybody that has a problem with that can suck one! I’m n the VA health care system and its socialized and works great in my opinion.
 
cackpircings

cackpircings

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
What will happen if I decide I don't need it or want to participate ? Can I say no thanks?
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Yes, in fact you can have your own private health care if you would like, and that’s to me is a good deal. Best of all if you are a healthy person and just want to work and pay your own way your golden.:clap:
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
If 0% taxes is freedom and 100% taxes is slavery, are additional mandatory programs and/or taxes moving us closer to freedom or to slavery?
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100% taxes is not slavery, because we are not forced to stay.

And lets walk down the rabbit hole. If 100% of taxes were collected it would essentially be a society where you worked at your job and never got a check right. If that was the case theoretically everything would be paid for by the work you did.

Now you will want to go to the soviet union and show how that had failed. But there is not something that says it has to be that way in the computer age. The soviet union had no way to monitor everything that was happening to see if it was working or where the problems were to try to fix them.

They sucked at allocation of the resources they had.

Now if 100% were collected and nothing given in return then the system would collapse from everyone leaving. And that would cause the government to intervene through force or by changing the system. It could even be both.

But that won't happen here in the states. Infact if your whole idea of slavery is taxes, there is more freedom now than in the 50's, because the tax levels are far lower (the first rates then were 15% and top rate was in the 90%'s) now it is 0% and 39%.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
I myself have private insurance with the company I work with. I also served in the USAF so I could use VA if I wanted..I still would like to see another option.. and healthcare for those who can't afford it... We have a lot of hate in this country right now...People starting to show true "colors". I feel what Obama is trying to do with healthcare is wonderful and should be applauded....the sad thing is some people have not really read the bill just want it to fail because its from Obama..Let Bush say affordable healthcare for all and they would have said "By George aint he the best"... Stop the hate
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cackpircings said:
Yes, in fact you can have your own private health care if you would like, and that’s to me is a good deal. Best of all if you are a healthy person and just want to work and pay your own way your golden.:clap:
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You miss the point. If I decide not to purchase private insurance, and do not want to participate in the government's mandatory program what will hapen" ?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
100% taxes is not slavery, because we are not forced to stay.

And lets walk down the rabbit hole. If 100% of taxes were collected it would essentially be a society where you worked at your job and never got a check right. If that was the case theoretically everything would be paid for by the work you did.

Now you will want to go to the soviet union and show how that had failed. But there is not something that says it has to be that way in the computer age. The soviet union had no way to monitor everything that was happening to see if it was working or where the problems were to try to fix them.

They sucked at allocation of the resources they had.

Now if 100% were collected and nothing given in return then the system would collapse from everyone leaving. And that would cause the government to intervene through force or by changing the system. It could even be both.

But that won't happen here in the states. Infact if your whole idea of slavery is taxes, there is more freedom now than in the 50's, because the tax levels are far lower (the first rates then were 15% and top rate was in the 90%'s) now it is 0% and 39%.
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You play with words...let's not go the tacit consent bullshit route again. 100% TAX would be slavery. Even if "everything were provided" it would take away choice, which is crucial to a free society. l

Am I free to live in the USA and not participate in the mandatory program? No. With this program another choice of how to live my life will be taken from me and given over to your beloved nanny state. Fuck that.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
But that won't happen here in the states. Infact if your whole idea of slavery is taxes, there is more freedom now than in the 50's, because the tax levels are far lower (the first rates then were 15% and top rate was in the 90%'s) now it is 0% and 39%.
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Taken out of context too, the top tax rate in 1955 was for people who had an annual income of $400,000 per year, which is the equivalent of $3.2 million adjusted for inflation. An immense sum. Today the top tax rate is $250,000 or in 1950's equivalent of $31,000. Not really fair is it Han? Average Joe's are now considered "Rich" by todays standards.
 
cackpircings

cackpircings

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
You miss the point. If I decide not to purchase private insurance, and do not want to participate in the government's mandatory program what will hapen" ?
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Dude nothing is mandatory in this country (aside from the selective service registry). Sure if you work then you have to pay taxes, but nothing is new there, and taxis are older than the Jews. If you don’t want it don’t file for it. Everything in this country is paperwork driven. Meaning, they (the providers) will need information to track your usage. I know I would never need it, but I am a parent, and however I have insurance now, at one point I didn’t, and having some sort of insurance would have been nice so that I could have taken my kid to the doctor rather than chancing it out when something would happen. So it is going to be a system with options. The tax portion of this argument is poppycock, and I say that because money shouldn’t be the issue when it comes to the health of our children of America. We need to back this as much as possible because it is what is right for our future. Things are always rocky in the beginning when they start, but tend to get better with time (much like curing or precious Marry Jane) :weed:
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cackpircings said:
Dude nothing is mandatory in this country (aside from the selective service registry). Sure if you work then you have to pay taxes, but nothing is new there, and taxis are older than the Jews. If you don’t want it don’t file for it. Everything in this country is paperwork driven. Meaning, they (the providers) will need information to track your usage. I know I would never need it, but I am a parent, and however I have insurance now, at one point I didn’t, and having some sort of insurance would have been nice so that I could have taken my kid to the doctor rather than chancing it out when something would happen. So it is going to be a system with options. The tax portion of this argument is poppycock, and I say that because money shouldn’t be the issue when it comes to the health of our children of America. We need to back this as much as possible because it is what is right for our future. Things are always rocky in the beginning when they start, but tend to get better with time (much like curing or precious Marry Jane) :weed:
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Nothing is mandatory in this country? Really? Are you forced to buy car insurance? Wear a seatbelt? Renew your drivers license? Obtain permits to use your own property? Can you decide what goes into your body? Will this "healthcare" plan be funded voluntarily or mandatory?

Spare me the "for the kids" thing too. I want my grandchildren to grow up in a free society, not one where government makes all their decsions. Healthcare is not a right. Nobody has a right to insist others foot their bills.

Things that government is involved with do not tend to get better over time, they tend to get worse and more expensive.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Nothing is mandatory in this country? Really? Are you forced to buy car insurance? Wear a seatbelt? Renew your drivers license? Obtain permits to use your own property? Can you decide what goes into your body? Will this "healthcare" plan be funded voluntarily or mandatory?
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Nope, They tell me to but don't force me to. There had been times in the past that I had driven without it.
Nope, I drive without my seatbelt all the time, would do it more if the stupid car didn't beep at me.
Nope, I actually went 2 years without a updated drivers license.
Nope, because I have no idea what you are talking about.
Yup, I can put whatever I want into my body.
Yup.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Nope, They tell me to but don't force me to. There had been times in the past that I had driven without it.
Nope, I drive without my seatbelt all the time, would do it more if the stupid car didn't beep at me.
Nope, I actually went 2 years without a updated drivers license.
Nope, because I have no idea what you are talking about.
Yup, I can put whatever I want into my body.
Yup.
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...is your government okay with you doing these things? What will happen if you get caught enacting these horrible crimes?
 
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