New newie got 1800W COB LED’s needs advice

[Lucky Luke]

This is a little different. 400, 600 and 1000W have fixed footprints they handle optimally. These will be the same across all brands.
With LEDs, the footprint depends on the ideal hanging height and light desperation angle or optics. The distance from light to light also comes into play with multipoint source light.

Is this a reply to me ANC? If so can you give me a context so I can reply. Just not sure what you are referring to. is it about an Industry standard?

 

[fearnoevil]

Nearly every industry has a standard. Its actually good for the industry to have one. Be fantastic for the LED industry to have one. They would sell more lights to a more educated public.

Ive already committed to LED. As ive stated at least twice on this thread...It took me awhile due to the confusion of them. Man strips are so cheap arnt they? I can see why people are going to them in droves.
I'm not sure why you keep saying and implying I'm anti LED......its kind of strange. Like I'm typing and your not reading or comprehending.

I don't need to spend money on cooling in summer. As I only use a 600HID/HPS. I don't know how you think running an extra 350W plus of heater would be less expensive in an in uninsulated tin shed with say 400-500W of LED.

Luke, I'm certainly not arguing against a standard, I agree that it would be a good thing, just don't see anyone forcing them to do so. The technology is moving so quickly along with the boom in sales it creates a perfect environment for lots of shady types whose only goal is to make money.

It also seems you're in a very different environment than me and a lot of others, if you can grow in an uninsulated tin shed without too much worries about heating and cooling, you've certainly got an advantage. I struggle with cold winters and hot humid summers, so that changes a lot of the dynamics.

I'm looking at the quantum boards right now, although I already quite a bit invested in my current LED's (water cooled at that ;?) so guess I'm going to have to just watch for now. But I agree that the pace at which technology is evolving these days does make it hard to keep up and know at what point a given tech has matured to where it's useful for cultivating cannabis.

LED's took a while - when they first started showing up in grows years ago, they were mostly long on hype and short on actual performance, a lot of people got burned investing in ridiculously high-priced fixtures that were real duds. Still a lot of over-priced fixtures sold by people taking advantage of all the inexperienced hordes flocking to cash in on legal mj market.

 

[fearnoevil]

This is a little different. 400, 600 and 1000W have fixed footprints they handle optimally. These will be the same across all brands.
With LEDs, the footprint depends on the ideal hanging height and light desperation angle or optics. The distance from light to light also comes into play with multipoint source light.

From the point of view of flexibility I think a big advantage is that you can design your own LED fixtures to fit your grow space precisely, whereas HPS fixtures you're stuck with a certain footprint that can only be slightly altered by the type of reflector used, and always with one central hotspot, very uneven and inefficient, imo.

Of course I suppose you could build your own HPS fixture using more bulbs although I'm not sure it'd work as well - could 4 x 400w bulbs arranged in an 30"x 30" array work as well or better than one 1000w fixture (add a dimmer to the 400w array to make a fair comparison)? Maybe it's already been done, I dunno, no use wondering since I think that boat has sailed lol.

 

[CobKits]

Of course I suppose you could build your own HPS fixture using more bulbs although I'm not sure it'd work as well - could 4 x 400w bulbs arranged in an 30"x 30" array work as well or better than one 1000w fixture (add a dimmer to the 400w array to make a fair comparison)? Maybe it's already been done, I dunno, no use wondering since I think that boat has sailed lol.

smaller HIDs are less efficient, as is dimming HIDs

 

[fearnoevil]

smaller HIDs are less efficient, as is dimming HIDs

Agreed, I still have a couple 1000w dimmable ballasts as well as some Sunsplitters that I used to run 2 x 600w bulbs - using a lux meter and my Kill-a-watt meter, I wasn't able to get any better efficiency or output by dimming a 1000w bulb or splitting it between two 600w (which ran about 550w ea with the ballast on boost) than just running a straight 1000w bulb. I do believe I got better production using the Sunsplitter w/2 x 600w bulbs due to spreading the output over a larger area.

But ultimately I am sold on LED's, there's just no doubt in my mind that price per watt to purchase, customizeable footprint, higher PAR values and lower overall utility costs just make them a no brainer ;?D

 

[CobKits]

there was a post awhile back that showed measurable reduction of umol/J when HIDs are dimmed. i want to say 5-15% or so

 

[nfhiggs]

I don't need to spend money on cooling in summer. As I only use a 600HID/HPS. I don't know how you think running an extra 350W plus of heater would be less expensive in an in uninsulated tin shed with say 400-500W of LED.

Insulation is cheap and has no long term operating cost....

 

[nfhiggs]

environment for lots of shady types whose only goal is to make money

Shady types that would ignore "industry standards" anyway, I might add.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Insulation is cheap and has no long term operating cost....

Insulation for a large shed is not "cheap".
Even if I spent the money (which I'm not going to) on insulating the shed id still have to run a heater in winter if I went to LED's. Insulated shed or not its still cold in winter..Which is why people heat their insulated houses for..

 

[ANC]

Look, a room stuffed with LEDs pumping hard in flower is anything but cold.
But, you may need to make a plan for vegging in winter.
I would try to seal the place and run a CO2 burner for a few thousand BTU's of heat with free extra yield thrown in as a bonus.

 

[nfhiggs]

Insulation for a large shed is not "cheap".
Even if I spent the money (which I'm not going to) on insulating the shed id still have to run a heater in winter if I went to LED's. Insulated shed or not its still cold in winter..Which is why people heat their insulated houses for..

R-13 batting is $16 for 40 square feet. Just how big is this shed?

 

[ANC]

You will HAVE to heat the plants at night anyway unless you want stretchy bitches from temperature swing.

 

[Lucky Luke]

R-13 batting is $16 for 40 square feet. Just how big is this shed?

12m x 10 m with a roller door and no ceiling. Heat rises and a ceiling would be a must as its a fairly tall shed. Takes about an hr or 2 for the wood heater to start warming the space and it cools down fast when it dwindles down when I'm working in the shed.
Just not worth the expense for a few plants. As stated before not everyone on here grows a big plant count.
O and don't say petition off the shed. Wont happen for varies reasons and I don't need to. a 600 HID/HPS does a good enough job of heating and growing. Last run was a pound off the 600 using a scrog. I'm happy with that and not having the cost of running a heater.

People run a heater in their insulated homes in winter to keep warm for a reason.

So even if I spent the moey and put in a ceiling and somehow worked out how to seal of the garage door and still have it usable and spent lots of money of insulation and framing id still have to run a heater if I used 400- 500 w of led to flower with....

You will HAVE to heat the plants at night anyway unless you want stretchy bitches from temperature swing.

Lights are on at night. Did not get stretch problems last winter as the HID/HPS heats the room nicely. When its particular cold not as much as id like but enough, helps to bypass the outside exust duct and vent back into the shed in the middle of winter.

 

[nfhiggs]

2m x 10 m with a roller door and no ceiling.

Dude - that's not a shed - that's a frickin BARN.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Dude - that's not a shed - that's a frickin BARN.

In Australia we have sheds not barn's.
Its not that big really. I could do with another but there to bloody expensive. You can never has to much shed space.

 

[nfhiggs]

In Australia we have sheds not barn's.
Its not that big really. I could do with another but there to bloody expensive. You can never has to much shed space.

OK, bro, its all good.

Here in the US when we say shed we usually mean a little 1.2m square or 2m square metal storage space where we keep our garden tools. You had me confused!

 

[Big Green Thumb]

Led lighting is not the only industry full of crappy cheap products being advertised and sold as something they are not. Have you shopped for car audio electronics? 1000 watt car stereo (the deck, not an amp) for $39. Or home speakers? Pro sound speakers or amplifiers?

They prey on the uneducated just like bad led light companies.

You know, as I compare the lighting industry and science to sound, they are very similar. Sound decays at specific rates just like light. Power, efficiency, etc are nicely relatable between the 2. Cool.

 

[nfhiggs]

OK, bro, its all good.

Here in the US when we say shed we usually mean a little 1.2m square or 2m square metal storage space where we keep our garden tools. You had me confused!

Dude - I just calculated 12m x10m and that is 1267 square feet - that's bigger than my HOUSE. Your shed is bigger than my house....

 

[GBAUTO]

Sounds like you need a bigger house...

 

[Lucky Luke]

Sounds like you need a bigger house...

Its a fairly big house... Kids have left home and the wife and I are thinking of downsizing to a smaller 2 or 3 bedroom place ( i recon two bedroom would be fine but she wants 3- fk knows what for..) Trouble is finding one with large enough shed space.