Need advice / opinions - 2 400 watt hps vs 600w hps in 4x4 tent

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
In a 4x4 i would run 2 315s. Eliminates the need for spectrum supplement, comparable to a 1,000w se hps, twice the bulbe life, a phillips master color is cheaper than a 6 or thowy eye hortilux, better overall quality (colors, terps, potentcy). It will be sooner than you think that old school hid lighting will be long gone and cmh will be the entry level lighting, unless leds come down in price. I got a sun spectra 630 setup with bulbs, ballast and 2 reflectors for $500 to my door. It usually comes with 1 duel bulb hood for the 630 setup but i like the idea of running it as 2 315s. Watt for watt they will destroy se hps, its very close to de though de does out perform. On the flip side of that, cmh is easier to deal with i regards to height above canopy. They do put out a good deal of uv though so you should run them higher than an hps. Ive run hps for years. I now run cob led and cmh and will never look back. True full spectrum white light is the way to go if youre not using the sun. The initial cost is the only thing hps has going for it but the long term savings and gains of cmh vs. hps will make up for it many times over. Fwiw. Just trying to help. This is an idustry/hobby filled with snake oil, smoke & mirrors. Do what you will. Not my grow, not my money.
It's really one of the biggest controversy out right now. CMH vs HPS . Half says having the heavy red spectrum is better for flower but then the other half argued the more efficient and usable light aspect despite much less red spectrum. It'll come down to one day when I decide to go that route. Although i have to say with all due respect of course , im by no means a pro at this stuff. But i think running a 400w hps with a 315cmh would be tits. Mixing lighting how benefited my grows here in the past and just imagine having half heavy red spectrum and half more usable light from the full spectrum would be ideal nay?
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
In a 4x4 i would run 2 315s. Eliminates the need for spectrum supplement, comparable to a 1,000w se hps, twice the bulbe life, a phillips master color is cheaper than a 6 or thowy eye hortilux, better overall quality (colors, terps, potentcy). It will be sooner than you think that old school hid lighting will be long gone and cmh will be the entry level lighting, unless leds come down in price. I got a sun spectra 630 setup with bulbs, ballast and 2 reflectors for $500 to my door. It usually comes with 1 duel bulb hood for the 630 setup but i like the idea of running it as 2 315s. Watt for watt they will destroy se hps, its very close to de though de does out perform. On the flip side of that, cmh is easier to deal with i regards to height above canopy. They do put out a good deal of uv though so you should run them higher than an hps. Ive run hps for years. I now run cob led and cmh and will never look back. True full spectrum white light is the way to go if youre not using the sun. The initial cost is the only thing hps has going for it but the long term savings and gains of cmh vs. hps will make up for it many times over. Fwiw. Just trying to help. This is an idustry/hobby filled with snake oil, smoke & mirrors. Do what you will. Not my grow, not my money.
Good selection advice. But cmh is HID first off. And single ended hps isnt going anywhere. You can bank on that. Cmh is a great fixture. But it is no hps replacement. I know very close friends that run them. They put off a great spectrum. Hps is still king. Especially double ended.
 

Cletus clem

Well-Known Member
It's really one of the biggest controversy out right now. CMH vs HPS . Half says having the heavy red spectrum is better for flower but then the other half argued the more efficient and usable light aspect despite much less red spectrum. It'll come down to one day when I decide to go that route. Although i have to say with all due respect of course , im by no means a pro at this stuff. But i think running a 400w hps with a 315cmh would be tits. Mixing lighting how benefited my grows here in the past and just imagine having half heavy red spectrum and half more usable light from the full spectrum would be ideal nay?
I can dig that. Indoor gardening is a very new thing, more and more technology and information is becoming available but people have a tendency to fear change. A year snd a half ago, there is no way you wouldve been able to convince me that i could grow what i do now with 3 little half dollar sized led chips and 240 watts. Im on my second run and really amazed at what im getting in all aspects. My cmh room is down atm, never really got the chance to dial it in but should be good to go shortly and back with a vengance! Moving into a better space in all aspects but theres work to be done. Check out my ig @tetsuogentec. Ive got all sorts of stuff up in this forum but alot of it i also post there and its easier to check out.
 

Cletus clem

Well-Known Member
Good selection advice. But cmh is HID first off. And single ended hps isnt going anywhere. You can bank on that. Cmh is a great fixture. But it is no hps replacement. I know very close friends that run them. They put off a great spectrum. Hps is still king. Especially double ended.
Well aware. Maybe you missed the “old school”. Hid lighting is already starting to be banned in places in favor of more efficient lighting. Those same places allow cmh. The thing is though, dont really care to argue. If i can share my knowledge with someone and help them out, i gladly do. You have it all figured out. Awesome.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see how the 600 and 1000 watt double ended cmh fixtures pan out. For sure.
 

MarWan

Well-Known Member
i think running a 400w hps with a 315cmh would be tits.
done that in a 4 x 4 but with a 330w cmh. Plants under HPS had slightly bigger buds and took a little longer to finish, cmh side had better frost and looks, and finished 7-10 days earlier.

right now I run 2 x 200w cree cxb3590 3500k bars and a single 315w 4100k cmh in a 4 x 4. I would say that 200w of cob is almost as good as 315w cmh.
 

CanadianDank

Well-Known Member
done that in a 4 x 4 but with a 330w cmh. Plants under HPS had slightly bigger buds and took a little longer to finish, cmh side had better frost and looks, and finished 7-10 days earlier.

right now I run 2 x 200w cree cxb3590 3500k bars and a single 315w 4100k cmh in a 4 x 4. I would say that 200w of cob is almost as good as 315w cmh.
How about quality or diff in appearance between cob and cmh?
 

MarWan

Well-Known Member
How about quality or diff in appearance between cob and cmh?
I've only ran 200w of cobs once before along with cmh, and I cannot give you an honest opinion, except for it performed as good as the cmh, and couldn't tell if there was any difference in the quality of buds.
 

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
Here's a picture of my current light set up. Decided on goimg with 2 400 watt hid. One hps. One MH. Currently im running

400w Hps. ( currently have my MH bulb simce I will be harvesting the OG Ghost train haze soon)20171022_005215.jpg 20171022_005409.jpg 20171022_005457.jpg
450w ( 200w actual) viparspectra led
3 - 23w 2700kcfl
2 - 23w 6500l cfls for corner lighting
 

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
If you can manage the heat do 2 400w.

It's not just about wattage but coverage as well, you will have better canopy penetration this way.
That makes alot of sense . I geuss it probably comes down to the wattage factor as well . The whole Grams per watt scale. I have yet to fully pack my tent full and flower all at once because i wanted to get the basics down and harvest one at a time so i can take as much time as I need with each one and not feel rushed and just make sure im doing everything right . The plant I yielded 4.3ozs off of, I probably could of fit 4 similar size plants in my 4x4 so I have some Cinderella99 and LA Affie fem seeds im going to try a scrog with
 

-DreamK

Member
Hi Jables,

I have used 600w with 1x1m tent (round 3,4ft x 3,4ft) for years and it seems that 1 600w HPS can provide enought light for that area easily. The buds that grow in the middle are just as big and thick as the buds growing at the side of the tent. Because of that I don't think you get much benefit from 2 400w HPS's. Also, the light penetration is better with 600w so you get good quality buds under the canopy too.

You can check my post where I listed my setup and yields etc:https://www.rollitup.org/t/is-it-possible-to-bigger-yields.951858/

I get around 650-690g/1m2/12weeks =
23 - 24,5 ounce / 3,4 feet / 12 weeks

If you wish to have even bigger yields then you might need to put more light in but I guess 1 600w is enought for 4 x 4 tent.
 

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
Hi Jables,

I have used 600w with 1x1m tent (round 3,4ft x 3,4ft) for years and it seems that 1 600w HPS can provide enought light for that area easily. The buds that grow in the middle are just as big and thick as the buds growing at the side of the tent. Because of that I don't think you get much benefit from 2 400w HPS's. Also, the light penetration is better with 600w so you get good quality buds under the canopy too.

You can check my post where I listed my setup and yields etc:https://www.rollitup.org/t/is-it-possible-to-bigger-yields.951858/

I get around 650-690g/1m2/12weeks =
23 - 24,5 ounce / 3,4 feet / 12 weeks

If you wish to have even bigger yields then you might need to put more light in but I guess 1 600w is enought for 4 x 4 tent.
would I not have better canopy penetration with 2 hid lights to spread out over the top of the canopys vs just one single bulb ? I don't think a 600 would give me better penetration throughout the entire 4x4 tent vs to 400's. 600w can strongly cover 3x3 and would do pretty good in the 4x4. But a 400 can strongly cover a 2x2 area. so having two of those would fully cover 4x4 telling me that it would probably give better light spread and have better coverage
 

-DreamK

Member
IThe "sweet spot" for your buds with 400w hps is 12"-19" and with 600w hps its 14"-25". That's why I think the penetration (Im not sure is this 100% correct term) is better with 600w. You can find this info from google easily.

Because of your "small" grow area I think you dont get that much benefit from 2 x 400w. I dont think it hurts either but it might be waste of time/money.
 

upnsmoke13

Well-Known Member
I have enough to setup two 600 or 400 to cover my area but never ran them. I'm nursing two babies, with plans of a two screen scrog in a 4x4. Been watching the thread to get insight.
I was wondering about the area between the reflectors getting overlap, would this not create a hot spot - giving you go with a double light setup?
 

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
IThe "sweet spot" for your buds with 400w hps is 12"-19" and with 600w hps its 14"-25". That's why I think the penetration (Im not sure is this 100% correct term) is better with 600w. You can find this info from google easily.

Because of your "small" grow area I think you dont get that much benefit from 2 x 400w. I dont think it hurts either but it might be waste of time/money.
I see what your saying. I think those sweet spot measurements are more based off of heat restrictions vs light intensity. I mean I can drop my 400w down to 10 inches on cold days and not even come close to burning the buds. In Fact they get bigger the closer I can get that light without burning the buds. Plus the closer they get the better it penetrates and more lumens are available due to less distance between bulb and canopy. Also , I was just thinking about how if I go with a 600w. It will be difficult to utilize my led that sits 12 inches above the canopy. So it difficult to place without blocking light from the hid. With 400w it also sits at 12inches. So pretty even with led. Nothing gets shaded . If I did 2 400s with my 200w led, I would have a fixture over nearly 3/4 of the entire surface area
 

Budget Buds

Well-Known Member
As the title states, im wanting to add some extra hid wattage to my tent now that summer has passed and I have access to crisp cold air to draw in from outdoors ( yes I have a bug screen over my intake ducting). I am in a bit of a quandary with how to approach this. Currently in a 4x4 tent. Have 2 4inch inline fans. One exhaust, one intake. I also have a 200w blurple led in the tent as well for some added spectrum. I have been running 400w hps along side the led and have had pretty considerable results. First plant harvested yielded 4.3 ozs dry. looking to improve the yield still! Obviously, common sense says the more light the better, so ideally, going with 2 400w hps would provide 800w of hid lighting vs single 600w. Heres the kicker though, I remember reading somewhere on these forums how someone explained that the light intensity from the bare bulb itself is a factor. Meaning the 400w hps bulb intensitys will only allow the buds to grow so big. Meaning a 600w and 1000w are going to be much more intense a provide brighter light for bigger buds. Maybe that's not the case. But something also to take into account is light distance from plant. Since most lumens are lost on a consistent distance basis. Example - I could have a 400w hps bulb within that 12-15 inch allowing for all available lumens to reach the plant. Vs having a 600w bulb that's putting off so much heat in a confined tent area where it needs to be set to 24 inches and losing out on say 30% of the lumen output ( not accurate but you get my gist). the ultimate question

Is it better to have 2 400 watt hps 12 - 16 inches from the canopy or

is it better to have the extra intensity from 600w hps while having some of it lumen output lost due to distance needing to be kept from the top of the canopys.

I really hope this makes some kind of sense to someone else. I can sacrifice some extra heat at this point and want to take advantage. My average temps in the tent during lights on is about 76 to 77 degrees with RH of 40% stable. I also heard that if utilizing led lighting , since theres no uv rays, temps need to be a tad warmer to allow proper and sufficient photosynthesis to occur which is also why im wanting to add some extra lights to increase the heat in the tent during lights on. Avoiding wanting to use my ceramic space heater since I am at work all day and don't trust to leave it running. Thing also draws 1500w!!!! every time it comes I just think to myself.....I could have a 1000w light put out similar amount of heat lol. whats wrong with this picture?!?! lol
Pitch the lesser wattage lights, Invest in a 1000 hps and flip one of the 4 inch fans till it's also exhausting with vent holes to equally exchange the air, Problem solved, Giant buds and cheaper then most idea's ....
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
My cousin had 4x 600 watt hps lamps in a 7x7x7 tent. And CRANKED out some production. Actually it was my old setup I sold her when I bough 8 Gavita 6/750's. Lemme tell ya...there is a limit to light in an area but most wont reach it. I say the more the better if all other parameters are met. My cousin and I consistently pulled 4.5 to 5.5 pounds of trimmed dried nuggetry (good nugs too. No bullshit) every 60 days out that tent. I say Jam 2 sixers (or 1x 1000) in that little ass 4x4 tent and rock some shit out is my opinion.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
Pitch the lesser wattage lights, Invest in a 1000 hps and flip one of the 4 inch fans till it's also exhausting with vent holes to equally exchange the air, Problem solved, Giant buds and cheaper then most idea's ....
THIS^^^^ This cat knows whats up
 

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
THIS^^^^ This cat knows whats up
I'd lose out potency having only hps spectrum. Vs mixing . It's personal use smoke so potency before yield . But im still wanting bigger buds with equal potency to what im getting now. During the summer theres no way possibly I could use that 1000 watter. For anything. My idea is eith 2 400s. I can ditch one during summer months and use that 400w for my veg closet where I currently have 4 ft 8 tube t5
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
I'd lose out potency having only hps spectrum. Vs mixing . It's personal use smoke so potency before yield . But im still wanting bigger buds with equal potency to what im getting now. During the summer theres no way possibly I could use that 1000 watter. For anything. My idea is eith 2 400s. I can ditch one during summer months and use that 400w for my veg closet where I currently have 4 ft 8 tube t5
Do you really think potency would take a huge hit like you think??? If that was the case then every swinging dick hps grower would be fukt. Cmon. You do watch you gonna do bro. Iam just trying to help you out with what Ive been through. Later tater.
 
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