Need advice / opinions - 2 400 watt hps vs 600w hps in 4x4 tent

[growin-Jables]

As the title states, im wanting to add some extra hid wattage to my tent now that summer has passed and I have access to crisp cold air to draw in from outdoors ( yes I have a bug screen over my intake ducting). I am in a bit of a quandary with how to approach this. Currently in a 4x4 tent. Have 2 4inch inline fans. One exhaust, one intake. I also have a 200w blurple led in the tent as well for some added spectrum. I have been running 400w hps along side the led and have had pretty considerable results. First plant harvested yielded 4.3 ozs dry. looking to improve the yield still! Obviously, common sense says the more light the better, so ideally, going with 2 400w hps would provide 800w of hid lighting vs single 600w. Heres the kicker though, I remember reading somewhere on these forums how someone explained that the light intensity from the bare bulb itself is a factor. Meaning the 400w hps bulb intensitys will only allow the buds to grow so big. Meaning a 600w and 1000w are going to be much more intense a provide brighter light for bigger buds. Maybe that's not the case. But something also to take into account is light distance from plant. Since most lumens are lost on a consistent distance basis. Example - I could have a 400w hps bulb within that 12-15 inch allowing for all available lumens to reach the plant. Vs having a 600w bulb that's putting off so much heat in a confined tent area where it needs to be set to 24 inches and losing out on say 30% of the lumen output ( not accurate but you get my gist). the ultimate question

Is it better to have 2 400 watt hps 12 - 16 inches from the canopy or

is it better to have the extra intensity from 600w hps while having some of it lumen output lost due to distance needing to be kept from the top of the canopys.

I really hope this makes some kind of sense to someone else. I can sacrifice some extra heat at this point and want to take advantage. My average temps in the tent during lights on is about 76 to 77 degrees with RH of 40% stable. I also heard that if utilizing led lighting , since theres no uv rays, temps need to be a tad warmer to allow proper and sufficient photosynthesis to occur which is also why im wanting to add some extra lights to increase the heat in the tent during lights on. Avoiding wanting to use my ceramic space heater since I am at work all day and don't trust to leave it running. Thing also draws 1500w!!!! every time it comes I just think to myself.....I could have a 1000w light put out similar amount of heat lol. whats wrong with this picture?!?! lol

 

[MarWan]

As the title states, im wanting to add some extra hid wattage to my tent now that summer has passed and I have access to crisp cold air to draw in from outdoors ( yes I have a bug screen over my intake ducting). I am in a bit of a quandary with how to approach this. Currently in a 4x4 tent. Have 2 4inch inline fans. One exhaust, one intake. I also have a 200w blurple led in the tent as well for some added spectrum. I have been running 400w hps along side the led and have had pretty considerable results. First plant harvested yielded 4.3 ozs dry. looking to improve the yield still! Obviously, common sense says the more light the better, so ideally, going with 2 400w hps would provide 800w of hid lighting vs single 600w. Heres the kicker though, I remember reading somewhere on these forums how someone explained that the light intensity from the bare bulb itself is a factor. Meaning the 400w hps bulb intensitys will only allow the buds to grow so big. Meaning a 600w and 1000w are going to be much more intense a provide brighter light for bigger buds. Maybe that's not the case. But something also to take into account is light distance from plant. Since most lumens are lost on a consistent distance basis. Example - I could have a 400w hps bulb within that 12-15 inch allowing for all available lumens to reach the plant. Vs having a 600w bulb that's putting off so much heat in a confined tent area where it needs to be set to 24 inches and losing out on say 30% of the lumen output ( not accurate but you get my gist). the ultimate question

Is it better to have 2 400 watt hps 12 - 16 inches from the canopy or

is it better to have the extra intensity from 600w hps while having some of it lumen output lost due to distance needing to be kept from the top of the canopys.

I really hope this makes some kind of sense to someone else. I can sacrifice some extra heat at this point and want to take advantage. My average temps in the tent during lights on is about 76 to 77 degrees with RH of 40% stable. I also heard that if utilizing led lighting , since theres no uv rays, temps need to be a tad warmer to allow proper and sufficient photosynthesis to occur which is also why im wanting to add some extra lights to increase the heat in the tent during lights on. Avoiding wanting to use my ceramic space heater since I am at work all day and don't trust to leave it running. Thing also draws 1500w!!!! every time it comes I just think to myself.....I could have a 1000w light put out similar amount of heat lol. whats wrong with this picture?!?! lol

If I were you, I would get 2 x Phillips 315w CDM or CMH. if you did not already,check out the 315 Lec club thread, and All BS set aside CMH yields thread.

 

[growin-Jables]

Maybe in the future when I have the funds. I'm currently sticking eith just an extra hid upgrade for the time being. I've been reading alot about cmh but untill I can afford to do it right im going to wait on that trial

 

[humboldthayze420]

currently im running a 4x4 600w hps and am hoping for around 1lb yield, averaging an ounce per plant at 16 plants. I'm pretty confident at this point as I have been able to dial down PH, temp, humidity, and nutrient feeding pretty consistantly. I would opt for 1 600w hps but if you can afford personally i would go LED with a Kind750w hps equivalent, but they are very expensive.

 

[CanadianDank]

If you can manage the heat do 2 400w.

It's not just about wattage but coverage as well, you will have better canopy penetration this way.

 

[since1991]

I would skip both and get a 1000 watt 6" aircooled mogul socket hps in one of them giant ass reflectors. With the hood fan sucking out close to the exit point (fan outside the tent) with 6inch insulated ducting. Drawing in outside cool air from another entrance point opposite side. Do it proper. 4x4 tents jam with a properly setup air cooled 1000 watt hps mounted all the way highest it can go. And pack it full of plants that finish around 25 to 30 inches. Sixers are about decent for 3x3 square...and 4 hundos...well...no one uses them much anymore. For shorty short plants...maybe. But they just dont have penetration. Get a digtial 1000 watt ballst that goes from 400..600..750..and 1000 watts. I think they make those. But really. Just use 1000 watts and a nice air cooled reflector that has quality 95% German aluminum (some cheapos are only 85 % - if they dont say 95 on the box or ads - its the cheapie 85%) reflectors on all 4 sides..not just the bent non flange sides..big difference having reflectors on the flange end sides believe it or not. Use a digital footcandle meter if you want the truth. A very underrated tool that should be in every serious home growers arsenal. Use that blurple led thingy with an 8 bulber or 2 of t5 in a seperate veg room for mother plant.. rooting cuttings...seedlings..and preflowers in final pot. Do it in style broham. Take this advice. Your gonna regret throwing a sixer in there and pulling 12 to 18 zips or whatever you get from two 4 hundos of loose airy could have been buds. Pack 9 to 16 short high yielding bushy kushys in there and pull yourself 1.75 to 2 pounds of trimmed dried and cured sticks of medicine every 65 days like clockwork. Run it right.

 

[growin-Jables]

Here's my current results from a single 400watt hps and 450w viparspectra ( 200w actual draw). First two pics are of a Quicksand Kush thay only took 51 days from the day I flipped to 12/12 to finish. Yield was 4.3 oz. Last 3 pics are of the OG Ghost train haze. Will be harvesting next week sometime . This is a 12 weaker strain so it's been going in this tent for awhile now

 

[MarWan]

those pics tell me you should be giving advice not ask for it.

 

[growin-Jables]

those pics tell me you should be giving advice not ask for it.

There's always someone more experienced ! This was actually my very first attempt at growing . I know im doing good but as always , want to do better or at least grow bigger buds lol. Thanks for the compliment man!

 

[since1991]

Shheeiitt homie..yer good. Still...try rocking a thouie in that tent. You would crush all who oppose you no doubt. You got it down for a rookie or pro time. Very impressive. Ive ran that Ghost train Haze. She is a 12er but man...shes one of the best hazes ive ever ran. Like many i say after the fact..should of kept her. At anyrate..NICE!!!

 

[Superstutts1]

I'm using a 4x4 tent also, but I'm running 3 600 watt LEDs and a grow bro co2 generator. I'm growing 6 blueberry autos right now and here is a pic of one of them and it's about 2 weeks old.

 

[growin-Jables]

Shheeiitt homie..yer good. Still...try rocking a thouie in that tent. You would crush all who oppose you no doubt. You got it down for a rookie or pro time. Very impressive. Ive ran that Ghost train Haze. She is a 12er but man...shes one of the best hazes ive ever ran. Like many i say after the fact..should of kept her. At anyrate..NICE!!!

I know what you mean. After seeimg how slow it grew i have my 2 clones away but then realized how insanely potent its suppose to be. Oh well too many strains to try to just stick to a couple few. Thanks for all the compliments man

 

[growin-Jables]

I would skip both and get a 1000 watt 6" aircooled mogul socket hps in one of them giant ass reflectors. With the hood fan sucking out close to the exit point (fan outside the tent) with 6inch insulated ducting. Drawing in outside cool air from another entrance point opposite side. Do it proper. 4x4 tents jam with a properly setup air cooled 1000 watt hps mounted all the way highest it can go. And pack it full of plants that finish around 25 to 30 inches. Sixers are about decent for 3x3 square...and 4 hundos...well...no one uses them much anymore. For shorty short plants...maybe. But they just dont have penetration. Get a digtial 1000 watt ballst that goes from 400..600..750..and 1000 watts. I think they make those. But really. Just use 1000 watts and a nice air cooled reflector that has quality 95% German aluminum (some cheapos are only 85 % - if they dont say 95 on the box or ads - its the cheapie 85%) reflectors on all 4 sides..not just the bent non flange sides..big difference having reflectors on the flange end sides believe it or not. Use a digital footcandle meter if you want the truth. A very underrated tool that should be in every serious home growers arsenal. Use that blurple led thingy with an 8 bulber or 2 of t5 in a seperate veg room for mother plant.. rooting cuttings...seedlings..and preflowers in final pot. Do it in style broham. Take this advice. Your gonna regret throwing a sixer in there and pulling 12 to 18 zips or whatever you get from two 4 hundos of loose airy could have been buds. Pack 9 to 16 short high yielding bushy kushys in there and pull yourself 1.75 to 2 pounds of trimmed dried and cured sticks of medicine every 65 days like clockwork. Run it right.

I actually already have a 8 tube 4 foot t5 with 6500k bulbs for my vegging closet along with some 23w 6500k cfls that I use for side lighting since I tend to veg my plants to about 18 inches before sending them to the flowering tent, I like the idea of doing multiple, smaller plants in the tent and packing it full. But I usually harvest one plant at a time, every 3 or 4 weeks so I can consistently harvest 3 or 4 ozs every few weeks vs one big harvest. I grow for personal use and I think it would be far to difficult for my self to grow 10 different strains in a tent. I usually like having variety which is why I never opted for one big harvest. That and I just don't have time to sit there and trim up a pound lol I work full time so all my chores have to be done either after work or on my weekends.

 

[growin-Jables]

Shheeiitt homie..yer good. Still...try rocking a thouie in that tent. You would crush all who oppose you no doubt. You got it down for a rookie or pro time. Very impressive. Ive ran that Ghost train Haze. She is a 12er but man...shes one of the best hazes ive ever ran. Like many i say after the fact..should of kept her. At anyrate..NICE!!!

How did your ghost train finish? it will be officially week 12 next Thursday and I still see a few white pistils but trichromes are nearing that 50 50 mark of clear/cloudy with a few amber. Started flushing last week. Just did another flush last night and added some botanicare sweet raw for some last minute carbs. I think that will be my last watering. Just going to let it completely dry out then chop her down! Did you cut yours down at 12 weeks? I have some new strains going in the veg room at the moment. I just ordered some seeds called LA AFFIE. Not familiar with it but look good enough to try. Also have a Purple Diesel clone ( unknown exact genetics) and also have a Purple urkle x Girl scout cookie clone I just picked up from the dispensary. We will see how well she turns out. Never started from seed before but have a few different seeds im going to test out. Blackberry Kush, Lemon Kush OG, and that LA Affie

 

[since1991]

How did your ghost train finish? it will be officially week 12 next Thursday and I still see a few white pistils but trichromes are nearing that 50 50 mark of clear/cloudy with a few amber. Started flushing last week. Just did another flush last night and added some botanicare sweet raw for some last minute carbs. I think that will be my last watering. Just going to let it completely dry out then chop her down! Did you cut yours down at 12 weeks? I have some new strains going in the veg room at the moment. I just ordered some seeds called LA AFFIE. Not familiar with it but look good enough to try. Also have a Purple Diesel clone ( unknown exact genetics) and also have a Purple urkle x Girl scout cookie clone I just picked up from the dispensary. We will see how well she turns out. Never started from seed before but have a few different seeds im going to test out. Blackberry Kush, Lemon Kush OG, and that LA Affie

My cousin scored a pack of gth at a Cup. Rare Dankness. The pheno she kept..they were all quite similar...took 11 for sure and ideally 12 weeks to finish. Just kept spitting more flower..more pistils and more calyx. Didnt ripen like "normal" hybrids we all grow. Lol. Straight donkey dick buds. Classic haze. Tall. Kinda loose and airy. One of the reasons we both let her go. But the taste was more peppery and flowery than kush although that was in other phenotypes. The high was unreal. Very soaring. The more you smoked..the higher you got. No ceiling. Excellent herb. I have regrets letting her go. This was 2014. Ive grown many haze hybrids and offshoots. If you cross haze with something radically different..especailly if the haze is the stud..it always dominates the cross. Another example is real deal Blue Dream. Hardly any Blueberry in there. Maybe in taste and ripening times..but not much.

 

[growin-Jables]

I

My cousin scored a pack of gth at a Cup. Rare Dankness. The pheno she kept..they were all quite similar...took 11 for sure and ideally 12 weeks to finish. Just kept spitting more flower..more pistils and more calyx. Didnt ripen like "normal" hybrids we all grow. Lol. Straight donkey dick buds. Classic haze. Tall. Kinda loose and airy. One of the reasons we both let her go. But the taste was more peppery and flowery than kush although that was in other phenotypes. The high was unreal. Very soaring. The more you smoked..the higher you got. No ceiling. Excellent herb. I have regrets letting her go. This was 2014. Ive grown many haze hybrids and offshoots. If you cross haze with something radically different..especailly if the haze is the stud..it always dominates the cross. Another example is real deal Blue Dream. Hardly any Blueberry in there. Maybe in taste and ripening times..but not much.

I have 3 different strains growing currently in my flowering tent . Once these 3 clear I can start fresh with my other strains. I have a Death Star OG that just hit 4 weeks its looking like some really nice colas are forming . I always train and lst which when I first read about was like " wait , potentially double my yield...for free? But just pulling down a few branches?? ?" I couldn't believe how well it worked for indoor grows. I also have a blueberry kush that just got its two week mark and is just now showing her first calyx pistils.

 

[MarWan]

My cousin scored a pack. It Just kept spitting more flower..more pistils and more calyx. Didnt ripen like "normal" hybrids we all grow. Lol. Straight donkey dick buds. Classic haze. Tall. Kinda loose and airy. The high was unreal. Very soaring. The more you smoked..the higher you got. No ceiling. Excellent herb. I have regrets letting her go. This was 2014.

That's exactly my case, but with Female Seeds X-Line C99 Hybrid [C99 x (C99 x Maroc)] x (C99 x Nevilles Haze) I bought 2 x 5 pack and gave one to my cousin who grow it in his small back yard. ended up with one plant, it kept going for almost one year. We harvested it along a period of ~ 4 months. At first harvest it was like amphetamines, at the last harvest trichs went dark purple to black color, and it hit very heavy it put you to sleep if you smoked enough.

 

[Cletus clem]

0 watts hps. 315 watts cmh.

 

[growin-Jables]

0 watts hps. 315 watts cmh.

So go from 400w hps + 200w draw led to just a 315w cmh? Doubt I would get near similar yields that im getting now with half the power draw. I'm going for more light in my tent , not less. Now , I've tinkered with the idea of running a 400w hps alongside the 315w cmh. As of right now my funds are pretty limited. I know that I can go down to the grow store and for $150.00 get another 400w switchable ballast , 400w MH and HPS bulb , and the reflector . So that's hard to convince myself to fork over extra $ for the cmh

 

[Cletus clem]

So go from 400w hps + 200w draw led to just a 315w cmh? Doubt I would get near similar yields that im getting now with half the power draw. I'm going for more light in my tent , not less. Now , I've tinkered with the idea of running a 400w hps alongside the 315w cmh. As of right now my funds are pretty limited. I know that I can go down to the grow store and for $150.00 get another 400w switchable ballast , 400w MH and HPS bulb , and the reflector . So that's hard to convince myself to fork over extra $ for the cmh

In a 4x4 i would run 2 315s. Eliminates the need for spectrum supplement, comparable to a 1,000w se hps, twice the bulbe life, a phillips master color is cheaper than a 6 or thowy eye hortilux, better overall quality (colors, terps, potentcy). It will be sooner than you think that old school hid lighting will be long gone and cmh will be the entry level lighting, unless leds come down in price. I got a sun spectra 630 setup with bulbs, ballast and 2 reflectors for $500 to my door. It usually comes with 1 duel bulb hood for the 630 setup but i like the idea of running it as 2 315s. Watt for watt they will destroy se hps, its very close to de though de does out perform. On the flip side of that, cmh is easier to deal with i regards to height above canopy. They do put out a good deal of uv though so you should run them higher than an hps. Ive run hps for years. I now run cob led and cmh and will never look back. True full spectrum white light is the way to go if youre not using the sun. The initial cost is the only thing hps has going for it but the long term savings and gains of cmh vs. hps will make up for it many times over. Fwiw. Just trying to help. This is an idustry/hobby filled with snake oil, smoke & mirrors. Do what you will. Not my grow, not my money.