Are LED's That Good?

[Special Kdog]

give it a whirl. If you go the led route be sure to get bigger diodes. They are cheap now... scrog method works best because of light penetration. have fun growing

some of you missed the first grade class on why you shouldn't be a fucking asshole (one day you will get knocked the fuck out or shot)

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

give it a whirl. If you go the led route be sure to get bigger diodes.

???

 

[Special Kdog]

???

LEDs are cheap... get a light with bigger dIodes... 5w instead of 1w. maybe i'm using the wrong term. the things that emit the light. how about that. make sure the things that emit the light are 3w or >.

4 of these will work https://www.amazon.com/Ledgle-Spectrum-Indoor-Greenhouse-Flowering/dp/B00Q8QZB40/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1497917708&sr=1-1&keywords=global+star

 

[Heil Tweetler]

LMAO!!!

OK, pal. LOL! Whatever. The entire world electrical engineering community is wrong and you're right.

You're just one of those sad, pathetic little stupid people that shelled out for a COB so COB is best and COB is God and COB is life and no other light works and no other light can grow decent weed and you must buy COB.

Moron.

Nobody ever said that COB's and LED's didn't work.

Nobody ever said that COB's and LED's aren't more efficient.

All anybody has said (and I'll type your way so you will hopefully be able to read it) is:

OP ALREADY HAS AN HPS, so FOR HIM, it's simply NOT WORTH BUYING A COB/LED UNTIL SOMETHING GOES SOUTH WITH HIS LIGHT BECAUSE THERE JUST ISN'T THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE.

Read that about 10 times, dumbass, and see if it sinks in.

your posts reek of insecure jack ass. Unreadable 'alternative facts'.

 

[Heil Tweetler]

I've only come across.

Bro your brick head is so far up your chaffed , insecure clown's pocket asshole that what you come across, your perspective, is idiot shit.

 

[Eric Farley]

You both are totally wrong.

You just don't get it, doesn't seem several of you guys do, 600w of any light source is the same heatload as 600w of another, the only difference is how effective they are at growing, the heat load is the same. Photon absorption has nothing at all to do with heat load.


The only advantage to using an LED is you get more light per watt , which allows you to use SLIGHTLY less wattage , it's about 750watts for a quality LED to match a 1000w hps. If you use even wattage the heat load will be exactly the same.

I am done here you guys are too dumb for me to continue on, all responses will be ignored at this point. If you need to know more go read the first law of thermodynamics or comment on this thread https://www.rollitup.org/t/heat-from-1200w-of-1212s-vero-29s-cxm-22-cxb3590-compared-to-2x-600w.936071/ and have someone else help you.

Okay to all of you people who are trying to claim all lights of an equal power consumption produce equal amounts of heat are unfortunately lacking some understanding of physics Please take a moment and allow me to educate you in hope's you'll be secure enough in yourself to admit you were wrong and pass it along to all the people you have mislead with false information.

The factor you fail to include in your calculations is light efficiency, and I don't mean how good it grows I mean how efficiently does the bulb convert electricity into light. I'm going to use incandescent and fluorescent lights for my examples because we all probably have both in our homes and the data is more readily available, but the same principals apply to lights of any type including but not limited to HID and LED.

Now for some examples a typical 100w incandescent bulb has an efficiency of 2%. This means that it produces 2 watts of light and 98 watts of heat. In contrast a Fluorescent blub typically has an efficiency of around 10% which means a 100w fluorescent bulb will produce 10 watts of light and only 90 watts of heat. This tells us a incandescent bulb should produce more heat when compared to a fluorescent bulb of the same wattage (and it does!).

If you don't believe me I offer you a simple experiment you can try at home. Go place your hand on a 100w fluorescent bulb and notice it's a bit warm, now go touch a 100w incandescent bulb and notice the sharp pain and smell of burning flesh. According to you these two bulbs are both 100w and should output identical heat, but clearly based on the blistering skin on your hand this is not at all the case.

Science bitches.

 

[Ryante55]

of course the other side of the arguement is what are you doing with the extra weed, if you directly replaced a 600w hps with a 600w COB. My 600w COB is getting me 1.5 pounds or more per run. If that extra is sold off - there is an easy case where it pays itself off pretty quickly.

So true it sounds like these hps guys don't know much about selling....oh well guess some people can only grow they will never understand

 

[Creature1969]

Okay to all of you people who are trying to claim all lights of an equal power consumption produce equal amounts of heat are unfortunately lacking some understanding of physics

The factor you fail to include in your calculations is light efficiency, and I don't mean how good it grows I mean how efficiently does the bulb convert electricity into light. For example a typical 100w incandescent bulb has an efficiency of 2%. This means that it produces 2 watts of light and 98 watts of heat. In contrast a Fluorescent blub typically has an efficiency of around 10% which means a 100w fluorescent bulb will produce 10 watts of light and only 90 watts of heat. This tells us a incandescent bulb produces ~500% more heat when compared to a fluorescent bulb of the same wattage.

If you don't believe me I offer you a little experiment. Go place your hand on a 100w fluorescent bulb and notice it's a bit warm, now go touch a 100w incandescent bulb and notice the sharp pain and smell of burning flesh. According to you these two bulbs are both 100w and should output identical heat, but clearly based on the blistering skin on your hands this is not at all the case.

Science bitches.

That just might explain why I don't need a huge vented hood, duct and extra fans with my COBs to keep my closet comfy.

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

LEDs are cheap... get a light with bigger dIodes... 5w instead of 1w. maybe i'm using the wrong term. the things that emit the light. how about that. make sure the things that emit the light are 3w or >.

4 of these will work https://www.amazon.com/Ledgle-Spectrum-Indoor-Greenhouse-Flowering/dp/B00Q8QZB40/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1497917708&sr=1-1&keywords=global+star

Please go away and never recommend led lights to anybody ever again. Thank you.

Did you seriously just recommend a cheap, chinese, blurple light???

 

[Heil Tweetler]

@Johnny Lawrence. Take your hysteria meds, rube.
~~~~~~~~

Several RIUers are also builders of highest quality, current tech lamps, at fair prices that are durable as hell and will crush HPS watt for watt. They grow the fuck out of mj.

Growers who dismiss led are willfully ignorant gas bags. There are 1000s of grows, and years of data showing the gains realized by utilizing latest tech.

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

@Johnny Lawrence. Take your hysteria meds, rube.
~~~~~~~~

Several RIUers are also builders of highest quality, current tech lamps, at fair prices that are durable as hell and will crush HPS watt for watt. They grow the fuck out of mj.

Growers who dismiss led are willfully ignorant gas bags. There are 1000s of grows, and years of data showing the gains realized by utilizing latest tech.

Ummmm, what?

The guy i quoted was talking about diode size, and then went on to link to a cheap, chinese led from amazon. What does that have to do with the high quality cob and qb/pcb lights being discussed in this thread? i need hysteria meds for calling somebody out for suggesting a platinum/mars/galaxy style light? Do you want to maybe reread all of my posts?

Perhaps you need some reading comprehension meds?

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

@Johnny Lawrence.
Several RIUers are also builders of highest quality, current tech lamps, at fair prices that are durable as hell and will crush HPS watt for watt. They grow the fuck out of mj.

Growers who dismiss led are willfully ignorant gas bags. There are 1000s of grows, and years of data showing the gains realized by utilizing latest tech.

Context, dude. Seriously. Goose fraba. Pay attention. I'm running a 900 watt citizen/cree setup with fantastic results.

 

[Heil Tweetler]

Ummmm, what?

The guy i quoted was talking about diode size, and then went on to link to a cheap, chinese led from amazon. What does that have to do with the high quality cob and qb/pcb lights being discussed in this thread? i need hysteria meds for calling somebody out for suggesting a platinum/mars/galaxy style light? Do you want to maybe reread all of my posts?

Perhaps you need some reading comprehension meds?

Context, dude. Seriously. Goose fraba. Pay attention. I'm running a 900 watt citizen/cree setup with fantastic results.

Bro, you sound like s fucking chaffed asshole. I don't give a fuck about your rig or your results.

 

[TacoMac]

Okay to all of you people who are trying to claim all lights of an equal power consumption produce equal amounts of heat are unfortunately lacking some understanding of physics

It's thermodynamics, actually.

The factor you fail to include in your calculations is light efficiency

Efficiency has nothing to do with it.

A watt generates 3.412 BTU's no matter what. If you're using a one watt generator, light bulb, mobile device, whatever on earth you can think of, it's going to produce exactly 3.412 BTU. Always. Forever. That is 100% fact and has been since the dawn of time. It is written in stone and has never changed.

A watt of power is a watt of power and produces the same heat no matter what.

It amazes me how truly stupid people are these days. Really, it does. All the math has already been done for you with exact formulas and still people just make shit up.

For those that missed it, here it is once more:

The problem though is that the difference is negligible over the long haul.

Even a very good COB setup isn't double as efficient as a MH/HPS. It's closer to aorund 25% on average. That means that to replace a 600 watt MH you'd need to be running around 450 watts of COB lighting.

The formula for energy cost is simple. It's: (Wattage x Hours Used)/1,000 x Electric Rate ($/kWh) = Total Cost

All you do is plug in your numbers. Let's say for arguments sake I'm running a 450 watt cobb against your 600 watt HPS. Here in Georgia, the average Kilowatt per hour cost is 11.1 cents. Here's how they stack up:

450 Cobb on 12 hours on 12 hours off flowering for 8 weeks:
(450 x 12) / 1000 x 11.1 = .4864 per day
8 weeks is 56 days x .4864 = $27.24 total for the 8 weeks.

600 HPS on 12 hours on 12 hours off flowering for 8 weeks:
(600 x 12) / 1000 x 11.1 = .6486 per day
8 weeks is 56 days x .6486 = $36.32 total for the 8 weeks.

A WHOPPING savings of $9.08

So when you consider that the typical 450 watt COBB light will cost you double what the typical 600 watt HPS, then there is absolutely no savings at all unless your power cost is so astronomical it's ridiculous. (The average across the U.S. is 12 cents.)

The other issue is the heat. As mentioned earlier, a watt is a watt when it comes to heat. A watt generates 3.412 btu no matter what. So then we look at heat output:

450 watt COB: 1535.4 BTU
600 watt HPS: 2047.2 BTU

So you're looking at 511.8 BTU increase in heat for about the same amount of light. It's not really that much of a savings at all.

They're simply not worth it if you already have a light that's working well for you. About the only time I would even remotely consider getting one would be if your ballast blew up on your HPS.

Even then, I'd probably just buy another ballast as they're only a fraction the cost of the new fixture for very little savings on anything heat or power wise.

The only time it really makes any sense at all is if you're doing huge grows with tons of lighting. I'm talking about 10 to 12 fixtures. Then the overall heat and energy savings would be well worth it. The heat especially. But just one or two lights doing your own thing?

Nope. Not worth it. At all.

 

[jwreck]

It's thermodynamics, actually.



Efficiency has nothing to do with it.

A watt generates 3.412 BTU's no matter what. If you're using a one watt generator, light bulb, mobile device, whatever on earth you can think of, it's going to produce exactly 3.412 BTU. Always. Forever. That is 100% fact and has been since the dawn of time. It is written in stone and has never changed.

A watt of power is a watt of power and produces the same heat no matter what.

It amazes me how truly stupid people are these days. Really, it does. All the math has already been done for you with exact formulas and still people just make shit up.

For those that missed it, here it is once more:

dude are you like retarded?

 

[Dr. Who]

Idk what blurple is and no it didn't cost over 2 grand it was $1,600 and I guarantee you I have at least broken even and most likely saved more than I spent on that in the last 2 years on light, ballasts, reflectors, ducting, A/C unit, bulb replacements, electric bills (I pay about $15 a month for my grow, how about you?). You can knock LED all you want because it cost more initallly but that's just your own inability to consider the long run instead of an immediate return but at the end of the day over the last 2 years I paid less than you have on your precious HIDs over the same period. Fan boys *rolls eyes*

Ok, I run 8 1k's, in Jupiter hoods (20% higher reflected light), with 400w Merc vapors under them, run for limited times for the UVB and blue end light per bloom room.
By #'s limits, one room is running. Central AC and heat (stand alone building), 1 supplemental portable AC unit - 14Kand a big German Deheuy running. Fans (3 total) and 3 banks of 8 bulb T5's in the veg room running. 2 hood cooling fans and the water pump and High pressure RO pump. 2 bubblers in the water tank and 3 condensate pumps returning to the water tank. Security system, including cams and storage. Daily use of over head lighting and exhaust fans briefly on the bi-hr - lights on.....Don't think I left anything out.

Over 14 K watts running, more like 16K. I have the house/Farm and a business account with the local power company. The op is a stand alone bill and I pay less then $500 a month on it. I get a big discount due to the other accounts....

I guarantee I run bigger plants and pull better yields then you........If you want to play the GPW game? I average over 1.7 gpw

LED tech is changing so fast, I'm still going to sit back and wait.
CMH has too small a footprint for my plant size and volume.
Plasma is the same and over rated.

If anything, CMH at this point is the most interesting.

Glad you like growing for yourself and choosing what you use, sounds like the right choice - for you!

Now then, Chuck U Farley!
I just couldn't resist....

 

[Dr. Who]

I'm not pounding my chest about anything sir
Everyone is getting bent out of shape over the same old arguments and it really goes nowhere.
If the ops 600watter is 60-70% efficient that means he's getting between 360-420 actual light watts. So even a 400watt led that is 90% efficient is comparable.
Such an led could be built for the cost of 2-3high end bulb changes but everyone talks like led is still super expensive.
This isn't a commercial grower thinking of swapping out every light in his warehouse.
That's a whole different convo

I get greenhouse 1k's by the case for less then $23 apiece. If I buy more then 1 case, price goes down even more... I don't understand the idea that $100 1K bulbs do better - Hype and marketing.....

I agree that the argument is stupid! Each has their place and LED is not a good "commercial grower" choice. AT THIS TIME!

If I grew in tents or a closet or simply a small personal grow......I would choose COBB's......hard to beat for that purpose!

That's about the bottom line......period.

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

Bro, you sound like s fucking chaffed asshole. I don't give a fuck about your rig or your results.

Nice non-response. Yeah, I should be completely civil to somebody suggesting I take hysteria meds - my bad.

 

[Eric Farley]

It's thermodynamics, actually.



Efficiency has nothing to do with it.

A watt generates 3.412 BTU's no matter what. If you're using a one watt generator, light bulb, mobile device, whatever on earth you can think of, it's going to produce exactly 3.412 BTU. Always. Forever. That is 100% fact and has been since the dawn of time. It is written in stone and has never changed.

A watt of power is a watt of power and produces the same heat no matter what.

It amazes me how truly stupid people are these days. Really, it does. All the math has already been done for you with exact formulas and still people just make shit up.

For those that missed it, here it is once more:

First you do realize Thermodynamics is physics correct? I guess this just proves why you totally lack any understanding of the subject you keep spreading false information around.

Second a watt is a measurement of the rate of energy transfer, it has absolutely nothing to do with heat, in fact if you'd stop and look things up before spouting lies you'd know a watt is 1 joule per second of energy transfer.

Lastly if you had of actually read an understood what I said you'd understand I pointed out that the amount of heat produced is the direct result of the percentage of power that is converted to heat vs light. 1 watt does not equal 3.412 BTUs because 1 watt isn't a measurement of heat it's a transfer rate of energy.

If you seriously don't believe me try toughing the light bulbs like I said, Please explain why one burns you and the other just gently warms your hand up? I'll tell you why, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Eric Farley]

It's thermodynamics, actually.

TL;DR

Since this idiots false information sharing is annoying me I wanted to provided some actually scientific information (beyond why the heat produced by the lights is a direct result of how efficiently the light converts 1 watt of power into light vs heat)

Let's discuss how how these two lights actually produce light.

HID
After turning the light on an electric arc passes through the bulb between two filaments. This arc produces some light and heat which in turn vaporizes liquid mercury allowing it to enter the arc stream. This vaporized mercury begins to burn in the arc stream and produces more heat and more light. The additional heat then in turn begins to vaporize the Sodium which has a higher vaporization temperature allowing it to also enter the arc stream. Once the Sodium enters the arc stream the heat and light output of the light increases again resulting in the final output of the light. You'll notice this entire process is dependent on increasing heat levels vaporizing chemicals so they can enter the arc stream where they burn and produce additional heat all in an effort to get the small portion of energy that's transferred into light energy rather than heat to be bright enough. This is a very inefficient light as it needs to produce huge amounts of heat to produce a sufficiently bright light.

LED
LED lights are produced by combing 2 semi conductor materials. A P-Type semiconductor and a N-type semiconductor. The P type contains positively charged holes and the N type contains negatively charged electrons. When a voltage is applied to the semiconductors the negatively charged electrons are drawn into the positively charged holes. When the electron combines with a hole it must release an extra electron because it has a higher energy level than the hole. This electron that gets released is in the form of a photon which is a light particle. As you can see this process does not require any heat and simply relies on the nature of negative and positively charged particles and how they attract to each other and release extra energy to be able to combine together. In fact in laboratories LEDs have been developed that have above 100% efficiency meaning they actually produce more light than the wattage they received While I don't expect LEDs of that efficiency to be affordable or on the market for a while, it does represent the future possibilities for this tech.

So please tell us all more about how much you know about thermodynamics even though you don't understand that Thermodynamics is a branch of physics despite the fact it's included in the definition of the word... "Thermodynamics is a branch of physics which deals with the energy and work of a system"

*rolls eyes*