Israel say's no Palestine, ever.

Should the US support Israel?

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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Things are changing already. Jewish people everywhere are kicking Zionism to the curb.
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I believe that people of the Jewish faith are as likely to see reason- and not- as any other group.

The problem is that Israel is full of self selected Zionists, by the simple fact of wanting to live there badly enough to make the move. They may not have gone specifically to be Zionists, but because of a high likelihood of a history of persecution in their lands of origin they're likely to want to protect themselves from perceived threats as much or even more than the average person- of any faith.

I too believe the two state solution is officially dead, buried and discredited. What's left?

Universal suffrage- letting everyone vote and giving everyone equal rights, whether they be of Jewish, Palestinian, Arab- or Martian- origin. Let the Palestinians throw verbal bombs in the Knesset and they'll be much less likely to throw real ones in the streets. Give them the protection of law from Zionist land thieves (calling such thugs "settlers" is a misnomer of Orwellian proportions), and they'll feel included and will act accordingly.

Otherwise, Israel will remain what it is; an apartheid state as bad or worse than South Africa before Mandela.

America's role in this situation should be to support and encourage the people- all of them- to live together as one nation. If those running Israel right now are afraid of such an idea, it's only because they know what they've done- and that justice will be coming.
 
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abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I believe that people of the Jewish faith are as likely to see reason- and not- as any other group.
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You misunderstood me before you went off on how Israel should move forward. I agree with the things you said which I omitted though. I have for quite a long time been saying those things.

What I said in this thread is that Jews are abandoning Zionism everywhere in favor of thier ancient diaspora. Diaspora is an integral part of Judaism. From Exodus through captivity to modern times, Jews have always been international while holding on to their national identity. This is what made us great and many more of us know this than the world seems to see. Zionism is the antithesis of diaspora, which defines Judaism from deep antiquity.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
You misunderstood me before you went off on how Israel should move forward. I agree with the things you said which I omitted though. I have for quite a long time been saying those things.

What I said in this thread is that Jews are abandoning Zionism everywhere in favor of thier ancient diaspora. Diaspora is an integral part of Judaism. From Exodus through captivity to modern times, Jews have always been international while holding on to their national identity. This is what made us great and many more of us know this than the world seems to see. Zionism is the antithesis of diaspora, which defines Judaism from deep antiquity.
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Sorry if I misunderstood. It was likely because I didn't understand your use of the word Zionism vs diaspora.

I didn't know you were Jewish, it's nice to have this conversation with someone who's on the inside looking out- the simple fact is that since I'm not Jewish or very wealthy- and therefore powerful- this isn't a conflict that affects me or one that I feel I can affect in any meaningful way.

I applaud and support the Jewish diaspora, and their desire to maintain their cultural identity wherever they go- with some minor exceptions, mainly along the lines of getting on with their new neighbors.

That said, Israel needs to come into the fold of mature nations who treat all those they would rule with respect. America should too, for that matter. The differences between the two are more a matter of degree than kind.
 
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