Invasion of Red and Blue LEDs: Humble Beginnings

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Party on Garth

The amount of photons is more important than spectrum imo. Look at hps...it's not winning any spectral effceicny awards, but it's pumping out the photons and they are being used.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Thanks P, but all that needed to be said has been covered by those of us who actually know what we're talking about

So let the non-believers' eyes and future seeds go bad from the intense RBs

Peace out
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
According to my most recent theories, HPS's spectrum is dead on for light loving, tree like, flowering annuals. Peaks in amber, 2:1 R:FR ratio, low blue, etc. My recent thoughts is that HPS has been king for so long BECAUSE of its spectrum.

That being said, HPS does create a lot of photons.

Party on Garth

The amount of photons is more important than spectrum imo. Look at hps...it's not winning any spectral effceicny awards, but it's pumping out the photons and they are being used.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Well ....Talking about 'humble begginings' ....

(A slight change of theme,more like a pause ...
For the heat to drop a tad ..)

Special Economic Zone : Shen-Zhen

Population 1980 : ~300.000
Population 1985: ~900.000
Population 2014: ~15.000.000

shenzhen1980-1985.jpg

There's where all the high -tech products are being-massively-produced..
From MacPro's and Vaio's to the cheapest shitty led grow panels ...
Not any regulation for protection of environmemt ...
Not any regulation for protection of workers safety and health.
Workers earn as low at $1.5 per day ..
Sleeping on top of each other in 'bunkers' ....

Not even Orwell ,in his darkest nightmares ,
could imagine a future like this one ....


And we're playing with the toys ,they made for us all...


Calm down everyone ...
Enjoy swimming in their soup ...

Try to avoid the spoon ...
Cheers.
 

Pass it Around

Well-Known Member
Well ....Talking about 'humble begginings' ....

(A slight change of theme,more like a pause ...
For the heat to drop a tad ..)

Special Economic Zone : Shen-Zhen

Population 1980 : ~300.000
Population 1985: ~900.000
Population 2014: ~15.000.000

View attachment 3237327

There's where all the high -tech products are being-massively-produced..
From MacPro's and Vaio's to the cheapest shitty led grow panels ...
Not any regulation for protection of environmemt ...
Not any regulation for protection of workers safety and health.
Workers earn as low at $1.5 per day ..
Sleeping on top of each other in 'bunkers' ....

Not even Orwell ,in his darkest nightmares ,
could imagine a future like this one ....


And we're playing with the toys ,they made for us all...


Calm down everyone ...
Enjoy swimming in their soup ...

Try to avoid the spoon ...
Cheers.

Dats so heartbreaking
 

Positivity

Well-Known Member
Well ....Talking about 'humble begginings' ....

(A slight change of theme,more like a pause ...
For the heat to drop a tad ..)

Special Economic Zone : Shen-Zhen

Population 1980 : ~300.000
Population 1985: ~900.000
Population 2014: ~15.000.000

View attachment 3237327

There's where all the high -tech products are being-massively-produced..
From MacPro's and Vaio's to the cheapest shitty led grow panels ...
Not any regulation for protection of environmemt ...
Not any regulation for protection of workers safety and health.
Workers earn as low at $1.5 per day ..
Sleeping on top of each other in 'bunkers' ....

Not even Orwell ,in his darkest nightmares ,
could imagine a future like this one ....


And we're playing with the toys ,they made for us all...


Calm down everyone ...
Enjoy swimming in their soup ...

Try to avoid the spoon ...
Cheers.

Very sad. They could probably afford to pay the workers a fair wage I'd imagine.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
Party on Garth

The amount of photons is more important than spectrum imo. Look at hps...it's not winning any spectral effceicny awards, but it's pumping out the photons and they are being used.
:lol:
That is quickly falsified. Try growing some bud with 532nm lasers.
Of course spectrum matters!


 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
I think you misunderstood his point. Of course it would matter if you provided only 1 wavelength of light, but when it comes to broad spectrum emitters, intensity becomes the driving factor...just like with sunlight.
Meh... I suppose it's possible. I'm looking at the detail, he's talking subjectively.
So, let me get this straight; are you saying x+dx Watts at 4000K are going to have the same effect as 6000K?
Because "photons"?

 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Meh... I suppose it's possible. I'm looking at the detail, he's talking subjectively.
So, let me get this straight; are you saying x+dx Watts at 4000K are going to have the same effect as 6000K?
Because "photons"?
Not subjectively, more like conceptually. I have never referenced or supported an outrageous or completely contradictory to accepted spectrum. Just that whites as a base are the best in performance. White led's can supply more photons over the whole canopy while hitting major chlorophyll peaks and accessory pigments. With a little red enhancement to the chosen white base it produces the most successful match to sunlight growth from any led spectrum I have ever seen. That I base off multiple monochromatic and "full" spectrum white configurations spectrums, and years of outdoor growing.

If you were to match intensities/output then potentially they could have the same total yield. Spectrum will effect yield distribution and plant structure (leaf:flower:stem, size, shape). Specially if you want to take some opposite spectrums and compare.
The problem with say a MH vs hps and the yield is the photon loss not so much the spectrum. MH produces less photons/watt than hps so in order to get the same photon output, you need more watts of MH than hps. When the photons are closer to equal...like with a CMH vs hps...the yields will be too.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
Not subjectively, more like conceptually.
Distinction without difference?

I have never referenced or supported an outrageous or completely contradictory to accepted spectrum. Just that whites as a base are the best in performance. White led's can supply more photons over the whole canopy while hitting major chlorophyll peaks and accessory pigments.
That is the part of your prior note which causes my antennae to go up.
Is there a difference between a red photon and a blue one according to your definition, for the purposes of photosynthesis?
If so, what are these superfluous photons doing? The fact of the matter is one can make white light from only two narrow-band sources, if needs dictate, so I don't understand this "white light photon" you are talking about and how there can be more.

Unless you are referring to the lumen:Watt ratio. But even then, dichromatic sources are more efficient IIRC, precluding something revolutionary happening in the last 6 months of which I am unaware .
Furthermore, what kind of white-LEDs are you referring to? Phosphors or Polychromatic blends?

Don't get me wrong, "white" LEDs are great as a supplemental catch-all, but I wouldn't call them essential in relation to the targeted frequencies. You're wasting lumen$...we're interested in chemical properties, not how make-up looks.

One thing I can say after ~15mths of experimentation, a red/blue exclusive-blend lacks in the back end of a plant cycle. The moment I implemented a different fixture which contained a single, green LED in the matrix (it's a 5x5 multichip) in lieu of one of the reds*, I perceived a positive change in the plant development. It also made the garden look more 'natural' (as the math dictates), but it certainly wasn't "white". One plant in particular which seemed to show a strong change was a parsley I have under it--but that's a different tale.

Unfortunately, it burned out after a week either due to the power supply being faulty (causing the prior LED to burn out, too) or a poor thermal contact during replacement (more likely). So data collection is halted, for now. I have another one and a spare power supply (I thought ahead when getting my original "warranty" part), but I am hesitant to toss them in the light in case it happens again because of some other factor, like the proximity of the power supplies to that chip causing heat issues. Yet it worked for over a year that way, so maybe it's not the design itself, just the cheapo-chinese ® components. In any event, they still have the other original MC keeping them alive while I ponder.

In conclusion, Green is an exotic spice.
Red & Blue are Meat & Potatoes.
White photons are rays-ist

*I could be wrong on the colour switched
 

Pass it Around

Well-Known Member
Distinction without difference?



That is the part of your prior note which causes my antennae to go up.
Is there a difference between a red photon and a blue one according to your definition, for the purposes of photosynthesis?
If so, what are these superfluous photons doing? The fact of the matter is one can make white light from only two narrow-band sources, if needs dictate, so I don't understand this "white light photon" you are talking about and how there can be more.

Unless you are referring to the lumen:Watt ratio. But even then, dichromatic sources are more efficient IIRC, precluding something revolutionary happening in the last 6 months of which I am unaware .

Furthermore, what kind of white-LEDs are you referring to? Phosphors or Polychromatic blends?

Don't get me wrong, "white" LEDs are great as a supplemental catch-all, but I wouldn't call them essential in relation to the targeted frequencies. You're wasting lumen$...we're interested in chemical properties, not how make-up looks.

One thing I can say after ~15mths of experimentation, a red/blue exclusive-blend lacks in the back end of a plant cycle. The moment I implemented a different fixture which contained a single, green LED in the matrix (it's a 5x5 multichip) in lieu of one of the reds*, I perceived a positive change in the plant development. It also made the garden look more 'natural' (as the math dictates), but it certainly wasn't "white". One plant in particular which seemed to show a strong change was a parsley I have under it--but that's a different tale.


Unfortunately, it burned out after a week either due to the power supply being faulty (causing the prior LED to burn out, too) or a poor thermal contact during replacement (more likely). So data collection is halted, for now. I have another one and a spare power supply (I thought ahead when getting my original "warranty" part), but I am hesitant to toss them in the light in case it happens again because of some other factor, like the proximity of the power supplies to that chip causing heat issues. Yet it worked for over a year that way, so maybe it's not the design itself, just the cheapo-chinese ® components. In any event, they still have the other original MC keeping them alive while I ponder.


In conclusion, Green is an exotic spice.
Red & Blue are Meat & Potatoes.
White photons are rays-ist

*I could be wrong on the colour switched
The only information that he has to refute this is a bunch of bollocks and tardwinker.
 

Pass it Around

Well-Known Member
Not subjectively, more like conceptually. I have never referenced or supported an outrageous or completely contradictory to accepted spectrum. Just that whites as a base are the best in performance. White led's can supply more photons over the whole canopy while hitting major chlorophyll peaks and accessory pigments. With a little red enhancement to the chosen white base it produces the most successful match to sunlight growth from any led spectrum I have ever seen. That I base off multiple monochromatic and "full" spectrum white configurations spectrums, and years of outdoor growing.

If you were to match intensities/output then potentially they could have the same total yield. Spectrum will effect yield distribution and plant structure (leaf:flower:stem, size, shape). Specially if you want to take some opposite spectrums and compare.
The problem with say a MH vs hps and the yield is the photon loss not so much the spectrum. MH produces less photons/watt than hps so in order to get the same photon output, you need more watts of MH than hps. When the photons are closer to equal...like with a CMH vs hps...the yields will be too.
If white LEDs were catch all, why is area 51 using reds too?
 

Positivity

Well-Known Member
320w white, touch of red for fun at 30w.

Beats any red, blue, and green light on the market. If there is one that exists...that performs better...I'd love to see it along with a full and detailed grow report.

Ps....no hiding hid bulbs in the room now....

image.jpg
 
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