Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
4. ph has no place in organics, every thing is a natural ph buffer and / or regulates ph. If you add nutes only use bark or wood chips as a mulch.. green living mulch adds way too much nitrogen... Bracken is the only plant that has large amounts of phos when composted . its highly carcinogenic. So no go there.
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I don't buy this. I hear people saying this all of the time, but I feel it's kind of misleading. Why does every recipe call for liming ingredients if ph doesn't matter? Peat is extremely acidic, and without dolo lime, oyster shell flour, etc your ph would be way out of range. I had this happen myself with one of the first batches I made. Miscalculated liming agents and had some pretty severe lockout because of it. I think a good source of humus can *help* buffer ph, but measures do need to be taken beyond that.
 
Tjingles

Tjingles

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
I don't buy this. I hear people saying this all of the time, but I feel it's kind of misleading. Why does every recipe call for liming ingredients if ph doesn't matter? Peat is extremely acidic, and without dolo lime, oyster shell flour, etc your ph would be way out of range. I had this happen myself with one of the first batches I made. Miscalculated liming agents and had some pretty severe lockout because of it. I think a good source of humus can *help* buffer ph, but measures do need to be taken beyond that.
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I feel if you just balance out what you give them everything works out.. I do nothing but comfrey, nettle, or horsetail tea with some added homemade fpe's.my original mix has some lime, crab,egg,oyster, and plenty of humus from multiple sources.humates are capable of breaking down or chelating metal elements and the microbes breakdown everything else I feel if that balance is maintained soil will proliferate in a very wide range of PH. Obviously the extreme highs and lows in ph will not do. But who is going to mix a mix with a ph of 3 or 11 or so on. I feel in organics that range of what normally would be 6-7 for optimal performance is really more like 5ish to maybe 8.5 which I'm sure almost all of us fall in that range. Just my 2 cents. No one adjusts the ph in the middle of the woods and you can find all different types of plants growing which if you read up on I'm sure they would give all different ph ranges for optimal growth of these plants, yet they still do just fine in their natural equalibrium.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Tjingles said:
I feel if you just balance out what you give them everything works out.. I do nothing but comfrey, nettle, or horsetail tea with some added homemade fpe's.my original mix has some lime, crab,egg,oyster, and plenty of humus from multiple sources.humates are capable of breaking down or chelating metal elements and the microbes breakdown everything else I feel if that balance is maintained soil will proliferate in a very wide range of PH. Obviously the extreme highs and lows in ph will not do. But who is going to mix a mix with a ph of 3 or 11 or so on. I feel in organics that range of what normally would be 6-7 for optimal performance is really more like 5ish to maybe 8.5 which I'm sure almost all of us fall in that range. Just my 2 cents. No one adjusts the ph in the middle of the woods and you can find all different types of plants growing which if you read up on I'm sure they would give all different ph ranges for optimal growth of these plants, yet they still do just fine in their natural equalibrium.
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You added liming ingredients when you first made the soil. How do you think you would fair without them?

Also comparing an old growth forest to a 5 gallon container is apples and oranges IMO. In nature plots of land have years, decades, centuries to acclimate and buffer. We have weeks, in a relatively small, isolated environment. Again, if you don't believe me try working with a peat base sans any liming agents and see for yourself.
 
NickNasty

NickNasty

Well-Known Member
Mohican said:
Do you use a brix light meter?
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Yes you can use a digital refractometer or the lens type brix refractometer both are easy to use. Just take a mortar and pestle and grind up a leaf then squeeze out some juice on the lens and it will give you a reading.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
even adding lime won't have any effect for a long time.when you add lime its for the season the following year. It takes that long to break down. No one uses only peat and lime. Compost, coco, worm castings, are ph buffers as well. I never said everything regulates and buffers ph. I said and / or......
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
I don't buy this. I hear people saying this all of the time, but I feel it's kind of misleading. Why does every recipe call for liming ingredients if ph doesn't matter? Peat is extremely acidic, and without dolo lime, oyster shell flour, etc your ph would be way out of range. I had this happen myself with one of the first batches I made. Miscalculated liming agents and had some pretty severe lockout because of it. I think a good source of humus can *help* buffer ph, but measures do need to be taken beyond that.
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Oh boy do I really want to step into this one... let me try to be diplomatic on this, I think what we want to acknowledge is PH is important so I agree with stownngrow cause after all to low and you will lock out nutrients, increase fungi over bacteria thus impacting soil life ect.

However I agree with Hyroot cause in organics PH is much easier then synthetic salt nutrients, adding admendments properly will self regulate a properly mixed and cook soil.

In my experience PH is easier to maintain because in organic growing natural amendments when added properly will balance off the effect of High N and P sources that when composting will lower ph especially when using dolomite lime and other sources of cal mag that will help buffer this and long lasting slow sources of calcium is essentially in keeping that balance.

Hyroot it is important to consider using the proper sources of lime to bring in calcium and not just dolomite lime but as stowngrown said, oyster shell crushed will provide long lasting release of calcium carbonate to help keep the soil PH regulated properly.

But sure as shit if you don't have your soil mixed properly and cooked properly your plants will not do well or die in a low PH and that is just a scientific fact, so it is important to know what your soil PH is especially if you are using a new formula or recipe or adding a new ingredient. Its just that PH is not important in soil mixed and tested for if is amended properly and maintain properly during grow no worries it self regulate and that is when PH is not a big deal, when the freaking regulating mechanism is viable.

with all due affection and respect for the both of you :clap:bongsmilie:blsmoke::bigjoint::peace:

DankSwag
 
headtreep

headtreep

Well-Known Member
Building and maintaining a thriving Living Organic Soil is much like owning a pet. You need to keep it living with proper nutrition and inputs.

We never throw out our soil.

We never till our pots.

We do not measure PH

We keep the soil moving and grooving with insects and worms.

We use RAW amendments and make our own organic fertilizers. *Some grow their own amendments.

We never use commercial bagged soils as they are made by us with local sourced materials.

We keep our soil at a proper moisture level and use both living and dead mulch.

We use compost from plant and wood material. No animal products.

We release nutrients with the manipulation of microbes and in turn the soil feeds the plant.

This is our best definition and average explanation for the average gardener
 
headtreep

headtreep

Well-Known Member
I've been really keeping my living soil mix simple with super high quality amendments. If you start out with proper compost you have already won half the battle. I've been testing many mixes on my mini organic farm.
Also testing a new alternative to fulpower on my tomatoes.

The mix with the basic kelp crab neem castings and rock dust works the best and is the most simple.

I've been experiencing better results using mix lava sand and lava rock. Pumice is always nice too.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
So headtreep, you don't add any liming agents to your soil? No calcium carbonate, oyster shell flour, etc? If you're following coot or gas's recipes, then you do .... so don't say PH doesn't matter.

The reason the LOS site went down the shitter is because you guys were too militant about everything. The whole "we don't do this, and we don't do that" is very rigid, and tends to turn people off. There is nothing wrong with picking up a bottle of pro-tekt or something at the hydro shop. Don't hate on people over it. If you want to do nothing but pick dandelions and nettle from your backyard then rock on, but leave the hollier-than-thou attitude at the door. It's ridiculous. This isn't LOS.org.
 
headtreep

headtreep

Well-Known Member
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The reason the LOS site went down the shitter is because you guys were too militant about everything. The whole "we don't do this, and we don't do that" is very rigid, and tends to turn people off. There is nothing wrong with picking up a bottle of pro-tekt or something at the hydro shop. Don't hate on people over it. If you want to do nothing but pick dandelions and nettle from your backyard then rock on, but leave the hollier-than-thou attitude at the door. It's ridiculous. This isn't LOS.org.[/QUOTE]

No sir I did about a year ago. I wanted to see if this was true (no liming agent) and been going strong ever since. Even when oyster flour was used I never PH my water. It's not even mentioned in the beginning of thread.

LOS site down the shitter? Not really man. I'm a mod there and there are many new members everyday. LOS has nothing to do with RIU.

Don't you think it's nice to use less?? Why the hell not would you want to save? I like to get my point across in a nice clear fashion. Pro-tekt is a silica product you buy in a hydro strore you can also buy agisil and make it yourself.

Your right this is RIU and I'm back now to keep all the BS out.
 

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headtreep

headtreep

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st0wandgrow just trying to save you a hassle that's all. I use only coconut, aloe, SST, and ACT. ACT 2-3x per cycle if that. Teas, FPEs, and heavy duty foliars are a thing of the past.

What really turned on the lighbulb is when I really spent time away from the PC and actually observed nature. I don't PH my water on my farm why would I do it in my indoor? I use the same mix.
 
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