Yet another LED question

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Bombaclatt5000

Member
Hey guys. I've been lurkin in the threads for a while now. I'm planning on trying to do my first grow in a few weeks and was curious on opinions for an affordable LED. I know HPS yields dense big buds but I need to save on the power bill all around so I guess LEDs it is. My tent is 4x4 and I would like to grow 4 plants max.

I'm trying to go cheap on a few grows and then I'll spend some coin on a good light. But for now I think I may have to go with a viparspectra. So would you go with

1 v1200w light
Or
2 v900 lights

Or 1- par1200 maybe
 
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Robogreen

Active Member
I have the 1200w in a 4x4 it drops off slightly at the corners. The plants closer to the center do yield more.
Amazon site does give a chart showing the light intensity pattern across the grow space.
I would study the charts to see if 2) 900s would give better consistent coverage .
The other thing to consider is if 2) 900s would over-saturate where they may overlap.

Hope this helps.
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
how is a 1200 watt or 2 900 watt led going to save power over a 600 watt HPS/MH combo? I'm a PU MMJ T5 closet grower but have been looking at 4ft by 4ft tents and thinking about using this light for that http://www.ebay.com/itm/250w-400w-600w-1000w-Watt-HPS-MH-Grow-Light-Kit-42-Umbrella-Reflector-Hood-Set/382013856914?_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507&_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160727114228&meid=aeb29945d348460eb870c9960f174343&pid=100290&rk=4&rkt=4&sd=142427042238 would like to use a double ended 600 watt CMH but that's a little out of my budget
 
B

Bombaclatt5000

Member
mauricem00 said:
how is a 1200 watt or 2 900 watt led going to save power over a 600 watt HPS/MH combo? I'm a PU MMJ T5 closet grower but have been looking at 4ft by 4ft tents and thinking about using this light for that

I only say that because I assumed heat was a big issue with HPS. I was planning on getting a 6" vivosun fan and carbon filter for smell. Would that keep the space cool as well? I'm a total noob here. If I could achieve a decent grow with HPS and keep my power bill low I'm open to suggestions for a solid set up for my space.
Click to expand...
 
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Robogreen

Active Member
mauricem00 said:
how is a 1200 watt or 2 900 watt led going to save power over a 600 watt HPS/MH combo? I'm a PU MMJ T5 closet grower but have been looking at 4ft by 4ft tents and thinking about using this light for that http://www.ebay.com/itm/250w-400w-600w-1000w-Watt-HPS-MH-Grow-Light-Kit-42-Umbrella-Reflector-Hood-Set/382013856914?_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507&_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160727114228&meid=aeb29945d348460eb870c9960f174343&pid=100290&rk=4&rkt=4&sd=142427042238 would like to use a double ended 600 watt CMH but that's a little out of my budget
Click to expand...
The "1200w" viparspectra actually draws about 524 watts when in full power.
LED manufactures generally use their model number ( 1200 in this case} to be the comparable watt light out put of a HPS. LEDs are more efficient than HPS in terms of heat energy loss.
 
GrnMonStr

GrnMonStr

Well-Known Member
I been hearing complaints at hydro shops saying some electronic HID ballasts from some factories in China are DOA. I would not buy a HID ballast unless I new it was reliable from others or it had a good warranty and return policy, and a quality HID setup is a little more dough than the VIP last I new.
 
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Bombaclatt5000

Member
Robogreen said:
The "1200w" viparspectra actually draws about 524 watts when in full power.
LED manufactures generally use their model number ( 1200 in this case} to be the comparable watt light out put of a HPS. LEDs are more efficient than HPS in terms of heat energy loss.
Click to expand...
Would this be sufficient for 4x4 space? This is what makes me consider 2x 900watt leds
 
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Buyfrommycity

Well-Known Member
Robogreen said:
the 1200 is recommended for up to 5x5
Click to expand...
5x5 for veg 4x4 for flower is what the manufacture recommends. That being said I have read multiple places that the 1200 is a little weak around the edges as far as flower in a 4x4. I've never tried it but I hope you post a journal and I'll be sure to follow with whatever you decide on! Good luck!
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
Robogreen said:
The "1200w" viparspectra actually draws about 524 watts when in full power.
LED manufactures generally use their model number ( 1200 in this case} to be the comparable watt light out put of a HPS. LEDs are more efficient than HPS in terms of heat energy loss.
Click to expand...
that may be true in terms of radiant power output for high end LED's but the cheap bridgelux LED's used in these cheap grow lights are only 25 to 30 % efficient and the drivers used are less than 90% efficient. that viparspectra 1200 draws 524.7 watts but only produces 49.612 watts of radiant power (12178 lumens.) that's less than 10% efficiency and that comes from the last graph in their ad https://www.amazon.com/VIPARSPECTRA-Spectrum-Indoor-Plants-Flower/dp/B00UORXUBA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499701895&sr=8-1&keywords=viparspectra+grow+light+1200 on the other hand that HID light I'm considering is rated at 90,000 lumen and the MH bulb is rated at 60,000 lumen and the combination produces a much better spectrum for plant growth at a much lower cost. unless your willing to pay over $1000 for a high end LED like the CLW solar storm than your going to get crap LEDs with low quality bridgelux diodes. I have done small test grows with these cheap LEDs and they could not even match the performance of my T5s. seems like 95% of the information out there about LED grow lights is just seller propaganda.people don't even read the test reports published by the manufacturers
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
that fan and filter would be enough for any 600watt (actual power draw) light that you could use in that tent. and considering to low efficiency of that LED I don't think an HPS would produce more heat.from their own test reports only 10% of the power being used by the viparspectra is converted to light. the rest is heat. the last chart in the amazon ad shows the test results.
 
B

Bombaclatt5000

Member
Thanks Maurice this is giving me alot to think about and your are helping a ton. So a few questions, i thought for a 4x4 space 800watts would be the minimum for a good yield? Are you saying then that the power usage would be equivalent if I went with HPS set up? And the fan that I plan on getting would efficiently exhaust the extra heat from a HPS set up correct?

Just curious while we are talking about this what is a cool tube? And advantages of the dimmable hps set ups vs the non dimmable

Here is a kit I found on Amazon just doing a quick search. would something like this be good for veg and flowering to get me started at least until I can afford a higher end LED
iPower GLSETX1000DHMAC6 Light Digital Dimmable HPS MH Grow Light System for Plants with Air Cooled hood set
 

Attachments

GrnMonStr

GrnMonStr

Well-Known Member
I think watts related to HID is a different animal so 400 to 600 would be all that is needed if going for the HID. But on the cheaper LED lights then 600 - 1200 may be required.
 
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Robogreen

Active Member
mauricem00 said:
that fan and filter would be enough for any 600watt (actual power draw) light that you could use in that tent. and considering to low efficiency of that LED I don't think an HPS would produce more heat.from their own test reports only 10% of the power being used by the viparspectra is converted to light. the rest is heat. the last chart in the amazon ad shows the test results.
Click to expand...
Just to share my experience....
I have not seen hardly any heat from the viparaspectra 1200. In comparison to a my 1000w HPS just running (turned down) at only 500w to 750w flower
My exhaust would have to run at full seed to keep tent cool with HPS and only maybe at 25 percent to cool with the Viparaspectra.
I do live in the desert however, so not the best place to produce excess heat.
Understanding the graph on amazon stating 49w is the radiant power output that does'nt seem like what happens in the real world.The heat just isnt there with the Viparspectra LED like a HPS.
Question is: if only 49w of 524w is radiant power, then where is the remaining power used? I have just not seen that kind of heat.
Just asking:
When the amazon chart refers to parameter "radiant", radiant what? radiant light? What about the parameter moles? that's also energy used by plants.
Efficiency is stated as 23 moles per watt. .(Is this where the missing power is used? The rest of the power is not going to heat) How would that compare to a HPS?
 
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Robogreen

Active Member
Buyfrommycity said:
5x5 for veg 4x4 for flower is what the manufacture recommends. That being said I have read multiple places that the 1200 is a little weak around the edges as far as flower in a 4x4. I've never tried it but I hope you post a journal and I'll be sure to follow with whatever you decide on! Good luck!
Click to expand...
It is week around the edges. Had to rotate plants into the sweet spot and eventually I just turned on the bloom switch while in Veg.
 
R

Robogreen

Active Member
mauricem00 said:
that may be true in terms of radiant power output for high end LED's but the cheap bridgelux LED's used in these cheap grow lights are only 25 to 30 % efficient and the drivers used are less than 90% efficient. that viparspectra 1200 draws 524.7 watts but only produces 49.612 watts of radiant power (12178 lumens.) that's less than 10% efficiency and that comes from the last graph in their ad https://www.amazon.com/VIPARSPECTRA-Spectrum-Indoor-Plants-Flower/dp/B00UORXUBA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499701895&sr=8-1&keywords=viparspectra+grow+light+1200 on the other hand that HID light I'm considering is rated at 90,000 lumen and the MH bulb is rated at 60,000 lumen and the combination produces a much better spectrum for plant growth at a much lower cost. unless your willing to pay over $1000 for a high end LED like the CLW solar storm than your going to get crap LEDs with low quality bridgelux diodes. I have done small test grows with these cheap LEDs and they could not even match the performance of my T5s. seems like 95% of the information out there about LED grow lights is just seller propaganda.people don't even read the test reports published by the manufacturers
Click to expand...
I just noticed the amazon graph says the viparspectra 1200 produces 496 watts of radiant power,not 49w. According to that would be 95 percent efficient.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
4 Quantum Boards will yield ... They will fit a 4x4 perfectly.

HLG : https://horticulturelightinggroup.com

Less power , more light intensity , passive cooling and no stupid bulb swapping.
Flat heatsinks allow GREATER vertical space for taller plants ....
UPGRADABLE...... So they can be used in ANY tent or grow space.
You just buy some aluminum angle ( 1/2" or 1" ) make a rail or box shape ....
Wire then fire .....
No big fans or ducting anymore. No buying bulbs or lamp decay .
No big Heat issues .... Mine run at room temp all day long.

I run three different rigs -

3 Quantum panel rig : 320 W ( dimmable power ) - mean well driver ( full power draw at wall ) - 3500k spectrum ( tent 30x42x72 )

4 Quantum Boards ( 3500k ) with 2 Citizen COBs ( 3500k )
QB 320 Watts with 120watt COBS - 520Watts Max / open dimmer setting
Tent 36x36x72

2 panel QB 260watt ( 3000k ) - will add two more panels later
This will grow great bud in a 3x3 also. This panels have deep penetration an no more bullshit BLURPLE.

image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
 
B

Bombaclatt5000

Member
This has been an awesome and informative thread. So much to think about and so much knowledge. I think I'm going to do some more homework for sure. I would love to explore the quantum board idea. Just need some more direction.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Bombaclatt5000 said:
Would this be sufficient for 4x4 space? This is what makes me consider 2x 900watt leds
Click to expand...
Don't mess around with cheap lighting. 99% is pure garbage. Big fan of QBoad type DIYs, but if you aren't into it and want a warranty check out Fluence or Amare Techologies (P3). You can start with one then add another as $$$ permits
 
Solo0420

Solo0420

Well-Known Member
Was wondering if I'm gaining by using my 4x8 t5 with my new 600 watt led and I also have two 2ft t5s mounted in the corners of my 48x48 tent I ordered 2 more 600watt leds and want to use them all in the tent when just the led is on the footprint is amazing never grew with led just t5s but when I turn the 4x8 on it seems to drown out my led and the foot print is there put not any where like it was should I get ride of the 4x8 and just go with the 600 watts basically is that 4x8 gonna give me any gain
 
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