Yet Another Grow Room Build Thread ...

[yankeegreen]

New RIU member but long time reader. After reading, reading, reading the experiences of others I have finally decided to pull the trigger on a 4' x 8' grow room in a quiet corner of my basement. Make that adjoining grow rooms - a 4 x 3 veg room and a 4 x 5 flower room. I have been distilling a lot of notes and ideas while reading through the threads and wanted to run the game plan by the gurus. I will incorporate feedback into more concrete plans as time goes on.

So here's what I am thinking:


General construction:

- Raised floor on 2 x 3 studs laid on end (2.5" high). Studs will be laid out to create a light trap and provide cool air intake (concrete floor) in two separate pathways, one for each room. One vent will be cut out for each room in a 3/4" x 4 x 8 melamine I have laying around.

- Perimeter walls will be 6.5' high, constructed of 2 x 3 studs with 1/4" plywood on the inside. Plywood walls will be painted the brightest flat white I can find.

- Front wall will have separate doors/openings for each room.

- Ceiling will be a 2nd sheet of melamine I already have.

- Divider wall between the rooms. Possibly a floating wall that can be moved to accommodate changing needs or taken down and removed if things go well and I need a bigger flower room!


Lighting:

- Hanging 600W MH light for veggie room, 600W HPS light for flower room. I know this is enough light for veg. For flower, I will add another 400-600W light after a few grows and start to utilize all the space. Ballasts outside room. All electricity run outside - no sockets in the grow rooms.
- Small bank of CFL in veg room above high shelf for seed germination/cloning.


Air exchange:

- 6" 400-600 cfm inline fan. 4" or 6" ducts ( do I need 6" in either or both rooms? 4" for veg, 6" for flower? other config?) to each room with a carbon filter in each. Ducts high on wall opposite corner from floor vent location.


Ok, that's the brain dump. Appreciate any and all feedback - pitfalls? something completely different? what's missing?.

Hope to make this a living journal of the grow rooms as they progress. Thanks in advance all!

 

[justanotherbozo]

...yeah man, it sounds like you've really done your homework, kudos.

the only thing i'd say is you don't need so much power for your vegging space and that a T5 or some other flouro setup would do you fine.

...here's a couple threads you may find interesting, the first is to a discussion of the benefits of vertical growing and the second is to a guy i know growing in a 4 x 3 x 6 space and he recently pulled a harvest from 2 stacked 400's in there and now has upgraded to a 600 over a 400 and he is just killing it, well worth the read.

Benefits of Vertical Growing

Silver's second straight-bulb several strain sweetened soil sweetness. Seriously.

...good luck man, although it sounds like you won't need much luck with all the advanced planning you've already done.

peace, bozo

 

[yankeegreen]

Thanks for the response and links Bozo. Going to have a deeper read on vertical before planning the actual room layouts.

So yo know where I was coming from, I was thinking 600W MH to start for the veggie room for the following reasons: readily available, comparable upfront cost to other options, variable power and switchable MH/HPS (left those details out of the original post). I thought that would give me lots of options up front - I could run the MH at 75% or 50% power to see what I really need in that space, then move the light over to the flower room with the first lot. That would allow me to either get the same fixture to replace the one moved from veggie, a smaller wattage fixture (as you said, 600W is probably overkill) or some other light source like T5. It was mostly an options thing.

If I went the T5 route, what would you recommend 1 - 4' x 6 or 4' x 8? 2 fixtures? From what I've read about T5s, they are cool to run so you can get em real close to the canopy so less wasted lumens which is a big plus! I've also read that plants have to be pretty much directly under the lamps - not a lot of lateral coverage. I am not locked into anything at this point.
and would appreciate anyone else's input on type and sizing of veg lighting.

 

[justanotherbozo]

Thanks for the response and links Bozo. Going to have a deeper read on vertical before planning the actual room layouts.

So yo know where I was coming from, I was thinking 600W MH to start for the veggie room for the following reasons: readily available, comparable upfront cost to other options, variable power and switchable MH/HPS (left those details out of the original post). I thought that would give me lots of options up front - I could run the MH at 75% or 50% power to see what I really need in that space, then move the light over to the flower room with the first lot. That would allow me to either get the same fixture to replace the one moved from veggie, a smaller wattage fixture (as you said, 600W is probably overkill) or some other light source like T5. It was mostly an options thing.

If I went the T5 route, what would you recommend 1 - 4' x 6 or 4' x 8? 2 fixtures? From what I've read about T5s, they are cool to run so you can get em real close to the canopy so less wasted lumens which is a big plus! I've also read that plants have to be pretty much directly under the lamps - not a lot of lateral coverage. I am not locked into anything at this point.
and would appreciate anyone else's input on type and sizing of veg lighting.

...let's talk tomorrow after you've had a chance to scan through those 2 threads i linked to, ...the second one in particular i think you'll enjoy, Silver is a cool dude and all the posters in his threads are top-shelf growers, many of them commercial operators with MASSIVE and multiple grow rooms, so if you've a mind to, that thread will lead you to some pretty cool shiznit.

...that'll give me some time also to dig up some links to information on different flouro setups, ...i personally prefer PLLs rather than T5's but if you ain't handy enough to do a simple wiring job (i know this is probably untrue considering all your plans) then the T5's are a very good option.

peace, bozo

 

[yankeegreen]

...let's talk tomorrow after you've had a chance to scan through those 2 threads i linked to, ...the second one in particular i think you'll enjoy, Silver is a cool dude and all the posters in his threads are top-shelf growers, many of them commercial operators with MASSIVE and multiple grow rooms, so if you've a mind to, that thread will lead you to some pretty cool shiznit.

...that'll give me some time also to dig up some links to information on different flouro setups, ...i personally prefer PLLs rather than T5's but if you ain't handy enough to do a simple wiring job (i know this is probably untrue considering all your plans) then the T5's are a very good option.

peace, bozo

I love options and appreciate the guidance. ...now some vertical reading...

 

[Big Trees]

you can run the ducting through your lights in the flower room through the light in the veg so you would only need one carbon filter. that's if you don't go t5 for veg

 

[yankeegreen]

you can run the ducting through your lights in the flower room through the light in the veg so you would only need one carbon filter. that's if you don't go t5 for veg

Thanks for the tip!

 

[yankeegreen]

I spent a lot of time last night and today researching a couple of suggestions made by justanotherbozo. I have always been willing to try something different and the more I read, the more excited I got at the prospect of incorporating Bozos two suggestions into my design: vertical growing and PL-L lighting.

I have read a ton on CFL use, but the PP-L bulbs are new to me. They are ~2x more luminous than T5 but apparently are not widely available as commercially built products. I stumbled across a few DIY posts and sources for parts.

I can build a 4 x 55W light set (~20 lumens) for the veggie room for under $100. This would give me ~4000 lumens/ft2 for vegging. Three main benefits I like: DIY I can build them with remote ballasts (less heat in the room), heat/W is far lower than MH so the lamps can be put closer to plants much and cooling requirements will be much lower. Like other CFL types, there is a wide range of color temps, including 6500k.

Far fewer posts on people using PL-L lights but I stumbled across one dude who grew a plant in a 40 gal garbage can from seed with these 2' PP-L bulbs mounted vertically on the inside of the can facing the plant. The plant grew nicely through veg/flower stages and he had a monster harvest. I was thinking about adapting his experiment, but mount the lamps vertically to the outside of a circular or conical base suspended from the ceiling and put the plants around the light source. If I put the floor intake vent near the middle of the flower room floor, this might be enough to cool the bulbs - the flowering plants can be put placed just inches from the light source rather than feet as with HIDs! I'm thinking that twice as many lamps (~40,000 lumens) in the flower room should be a good starting point since the light would be used more efficiently! PP-L bulbs are available as low as 300K which is in the ballpark of the standard 2700K flowering color temperature.

As I said, I am really excited about this experiment. Opinions/experience on this approach? Am I off my rocker or is it just crazy enough to work?

I put together a couple of initial Google SketchUp plans for the air intake sub floor and one to help me conceptualize the space in a vertical grow.



Sub floor showing air intake and location of floor vents


Possible room layouts. Flower room, plants are places around the floor vent and the light source is hung over the vent. Don't know if this alone will be sufficient to cool the bulbs. May need another small fan hanging off of the bottom of the light fixture blowing up and over the lamps. Still have plenty of room to introduce spread out the plants if necessary or to use for additional plants/lighting.

Have I gone completely off the edge?

 

[cosmoridez]

looks good get er done

 

[justanotherbozo]

thanks for the props man but all i did was pass you the ball, it's you who's running with it and it's you who'll score the touchdown, lol.

...anyway, i have another link for you to check out and this one you're really gonna like, i'd also suggest you check out his other builds, he is a VERY clever and handy guy.

Anti's MicroStealth Cab 4000 (The PL-L adventure!)

btw, that trashcan grow is called 'the high-pod' and it was built by a guy named Ineffectualize i believe. ...and if you need more links to other PLL grows and builds let me know as i know where to find some good ones.



...here's another that is pretty freekin' cool, not PLLs and not really applicable in your situation but damned cool none the less (this runs on a 150HPS and unfortunately, i don't have a link).



peace, bozo

 

[yankeegreen]

btw, that trashcan grow is called 'the high-pod' and it was built by a guy named Ineffectualize i believe. ...and if you need more links to other PLL grows and builds let me know as i know where to find some good ones.

Thanks for this link. That is the very grow I was referring too. Amazing what can happen when you think outside the box (in the can?). I started a separate thread on flowering with PLL. Hope someone with experience chimes in. Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[yankeegreen]

Got busy today and cleared a quiet corner of the basement for the project. It's near the furnace so will not get too cool during the winter months.



Picked up the lumber for the framing and sub floor.



..and put together the sub floor with air intake. I decided not to put the vent in the middle of the flowering room floor.



Game on!

.

 

[justanotherbozo]

...like minds and all of that, lol.





...this closet was one of the reasons i chose this apartment when i had to move last year, my old landlords had the house i lived in foreclosed on. anyway, this closet is 4ft 5inchs x 5ft 6inchs x approx. 8ft.

lift your floor up higher than you think you need and be sure you frame it to be strong enough to bear your weight and the weight of your garden, you want plenty of room for airflow underneath and you want to be safe too, lol.

...note that i built mine so the air is pulled in from the front and is then pulled up into the growspace at the back.

peace, bozo

 

[yankeegreen]

Well, I packed a fat bowl of motivation and tackled the framing of the room tonight. Back to the home center tomorrow to pick up some plywood and paint for the walls! Running out of space in my shop - time to sell off some more tools!

 

[yankeegreen]

A little more progress this weekend. Picked up plywood panels for the walls and started sealing off the outside world:



Building inspector stopped by and seems to approve...



Finished the perimeter walls and door ways...



... and now there are two separate rooms:



Now I gotta build me some doors!

 

[yankeegreen]

The build got sidetracked a bit this week - damn work getting in the way! I did get a door built and hung on the veg room earlier in the week.




Figured I should concentrate on getting that room finished first, then I can plant some seeds and focus on finishing the flower room. I cut holes and put in ducting last night...



Then put in a few shelves. Germination up top where its warm and darker, next shelf for new seedlings and clones that have lower light needs. Third shelf will be the main vegging space, then the bottom for mothers. Looks good on paper - we'll see how it plays out.



Think I'll caulk the veg room tonight and paint it tomorrow.

 

[yankeegreen]

Caulked both rooms and put a first coat of paint on the walls.

Got my ballasts and flouros in the mail today. I think I am going to mount the lower wattage bulbs directly to the underside of the top shelf. Since the intent is for seedlings and clones and these guys don't need as much light as vegging plants and don't grow vertically as fast, I can just raise the trays as high as I need.

Started cannibalizing a couple of old shop lights to make reflectors for the main veg area. I am going to use these for the 55 watt bulbs and hang them from the underside of the 2nd shelf so I can raise them with independently separate chords as needed.

I haven't ordered the lamps for the floor level yet. Was planning to use this space for the mums. Planning to do the bonsai thing with them. Any suggestion on wattage/lumens here per mum? I know they need little light as they will be actively pruned to keep their growth to a minimum.

With a little luck and some hours in the shop I might just hit my target of getting seeds in soil by Feb 1st!

 

[yankeegreen]

Got a 2nd coat of paint on the veg room and painted all the shelves. Decided to build simple reflectors for the low light shelf and installed the lights in that area.



and flipped the switch



That's 2 x 24w (3600 lum) on the left and 2 x 36w (5800 lum) on the right. All the bulbs are 6500K color temperature. Should work well for starting seedlings and clones. Here's a slightly more dramatic shot:

 

[yankeegreen]

Put together the light fixtures together for the main vegging shelf (documented here).

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Hung the fixtures now just waiting for the new babies to sprout (top shelf)! One gallon pot on shelf for scale and can easily fit 12-15.

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Lights on!

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[justanotherbozo]

very nice man, very clean work, kudos!

peace, bozo