Will You Take The Vaccine?

hanimmal said:

I just realized all this was on page 17 and there are now 24, so a lot of this might get covered.

You are saying this like all humans don't 'lie'.

I don't buy it.

It sounds all good and would go great if you grew a beard, a guitar and had some edgy political circle in a freshman dorm, but is just not realistic to pretend like you have enough information to say what you do with such confidence.



It is time though to realize you are now in the digital age. The evidence is now there and people are being exposed when they do.

I am pretty hopeful that once we can purge our political offices of these propaganda generating Republicans.

Also there is a big difference between not being able to tell people everything all the time in nice little soundbites and our politicians all lying to us. Believing what you do is just buying into the lies that the GOP and their militarized troll army (foreign and domestic) want you to believe.


Edward Snowden stole our NSA programming, and with the help of Assange smuggled it to Putin who then had his military use it to attack our citizens.

All he did was give people who would do us all harm the tools to attack us all.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/ap-news-trump-campaigns-russia-contacts-grave-threat-senate-says.1028063/post-15783109

I don't buy it sorry man. The no censorship thing is stupid if you think about it for more than a couple seconds, because parents censor information all the time, everyone does.

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Hi sorry I can quote individual statements and reply to them accordingly as I’m not brilliant with this whole quote thing on here tbh.

1 no I am not saying all humans don’t lie, most do, however lying to ur neighbour about what that noise is and lying to millions of people who trust you to do a job in the best interest of the public are 2 totally different things.

2 if they can’t tell us everything then why are you paying them to run your country? Would u not rather be told everything by the government you are paying for? If they lie to you (which they have, countless times) why do you trust what they say? It’s not like they’re lying about all the ac on the White House roof and the humming noise, they’re lying about your liberty. That’s a biggy.

3 Edward snowden ok. I totally understand why people hate him, he did take the nsa for a lot. And I don’t agree with him fkn off to Russia with secrets. But what about your own government agency (and mine) illegally spying on the public, going against the constitution and being protected for years by high ranking government officials. What are your opinions on this? Are these the people you trust? Bang a national security post it on anything And itl be hidden from the public. Is this fair? When time after time we’ve seen that ploy used to hide crimes against the public and other countries. It’s not right. It’s wrong. And makes them untrustworthy.

4 I think this favours my side of the argument. Censorship. We censor the information our kids receive because of their age, they turn 18 and can watch and listen to whatever they want, partake in whatever is legal for them. Are you still a child ? If you are then fine I do believe your parents or guardians should be censoring what you see, hear or experience. But for me and the rest of the adult community, people deemed by their age to be resposnible to make their own decisions based on ALL the information available. Why are we only getting the information that passes the censorship?
I’ll tell you why, it’s because all the information we receive does a job it pushes an agenda. Now if we were to receive all of the information, information that doesn’t push the same agenda. Then we could think for ourselves couldn’t we. And make a choice that doesn’t fit with the agenda. All censorship is to stop their being conflicting information that would cause us to have less faith in the agenda they’re trying to push.

The thought that people can only have mental capacity to consider one liar over another is sickening. You hate trump so you must love Biden or you hate Biden so must love trump I could laugh all year at this logic. Wake the Fk up man. These are mind expanding substances grown here, partake. You might just be enlightened.

Can I just ask the definition of the word bot? I see it used so much in this thread? Obviously I know what a robot is and understand that software is often used to converse with someone giving pre written statements without ever thinking for itself. Are there accounts on here that are software controlled? Not real people?

Blue brother said:

The thought that people can only have mental capacity to consider one liar over another is sickening. You hate trump so you must love Biden or you hate Biden so must love trump I could laugh all year at this logic. Wake the Fk up man. These are mind expanding substances grown here, partake. You might just be enlightened.

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I'm someone who had found a way to respect every American Pres. until the DONALD showed up,not a question of loving Biden After 4 yrs of absolute polarization, chaos, and behavior in self gratifying ways never before seen from a Pres. who put self above health and welfare of over 350 million citizens you would love a monkey if that is what the replacement for the CHEETO ADM. was are you FKN kidding me. THat CLOWN took our nation to unprecedented depths never before and hopefully never again to be seen.ccguns

CCGNZ said:

I'm someone who had found a way to respect every American Pres. until the DONALD showed up,not a question of loving Biden After 4 yrs of absolute polarization, chaos, and behavior in self gratifying ways never before seen from a Pres. who put self above health and welfare of over 350 million citizens you would love a monkey if that is what the replacement for the CHEETO ADM. was are you FKN kidding me. THat CLOWN took our nation to unprecedented depths never before and hopefully never again to be seen.ccguns

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I think this is where me and you differ cc, just because I hate eating shit doesn’t mean I love drinking piss!

I think if you dig enough and look at the scandals in office in the last century you will see that cowardly and self centred acts like those committed by trump have been committed on the same scale by numerous presidents and high ranking officials for a loooong time. Like the guy I debated with earlier in this thread said trump is just today’s best example.

Blue brother said:

1 no I am not saying all humans don’t lie, most do, however lying to ur neighbour about what that noise is and lying to millions of people who trust you to do a job in the best interest of the public are 2 totally different things.

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I agree with your point here, where then I will strongly disagree is that there is a category of lying that both the Democrats and the Republicans in DC belong to when it comes to it. Only one party has weaponized lying, and that is the Republicans since at least the repeal during the Reagan era that allowed hate radio and Fox News to launch their anti-Democrat platforms.

Blue brother said:

2 if they can’t tell us everything then why are you paying them to run your country? Would u not rather be told everything by the government you are paying for? If they lie to you (which they have, countless times) why do you trust what they say? It’s not like they’re lying about all the ac on the White House roof and the humming noise, they’re lying about your liberty. That’s a biggy.

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How are Democrat's 'lying about your liberty'?

I call bullshit on them being able to tell us everything as some achievable outcome. I also call bullshit on that being a reason to compare the current Democratic party, which is the first I know of in human history to actually be governing for 100% of a nation's population, to the current Republican party.

Blue brother said:

3 Edward snowden ok. I totally understand why people hate him, he did take the nsa for a lot. And I don’t agree with him fkn off to Russia with secrets. But what about your own government agency (and mine) illegally spying on the public, going against the constitution and being protected for years by high ranking government officials. What are your opinions on this? Are these the people you trust?

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"Illegally spying on the public" is bullshit IMO. Our citizens should not expect our government to allow a foreign military to have more access to our citizens than we have to ourselves.

I am all for data rights, and think that every person should have full access to every scrap of their own data.

Blue brother said:

Bang a national security post it on anything And itl be hidden from the public. Is this fair?

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This has been weaponized and is defiantly not right IMO. Which is why we need to vote in people who actually are qualified and not just more 'tea party 2022' trolls.

Blue brother said:

When time after time we’ve seen that ploy used to hide crimes against the public and other countries. It’s not right. It’s wrong. And makes them untrustworthy.

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'Them'?

People are untrustworthy, that is why accountability and government oversight is so important. This is the same reason I don't buy into the snow flaking about digital information being so accessable to our government it get's really hard to cover anything up for long. This is why I like where we are getting to be as a society. It just sucks that we are right now the first generations that is having all the old Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda's lies so easily exposed by some 8 year old with a smart phone.

Blue brother said:

4 I think this favours my side of the argument. Censorship. We censor the information our kids receive because of their age, they turn 18 and can watch and listen to whatever they want, partake in whatever is legal for them. Are you still a child ? If you are then fine I do believe your parents or guardians should be censoring what you see, hear or experience. But for me and the rest of the adult community, people deemed by their age to be resposnible to make their own decisions based on ALL the information available. Why are we only getting the information that passes the censorship?

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What censorship?

Blue brother said:

I’ll tell you why,

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Blue brother said:

it’s because all the information we receive does a job it pushes an agenda. Now if we were to receive all of the information, information that doesn’t push the same agenda. Then we could think for ourselves couldn’t we. And make a choice that doesn’t fit with the agenda. All censorship is to stop their being conflicting information that would cause us to have less faith in the agenda they’re trying to push.

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I went back to look at what you are talking about here.

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Please feel free to give me an example of censorship with the AP news that you are talking about.

I know what you are talking about exists (The Hill/The Nation/OANN/Breitbart/on and on with endless other examples) because that is the nature of the troll that has been conducted on our citizens. And it is bullshit and needs to stop.

But I disagree strongly that the con is being conducted by reputable sources outside of 1. them having people on record spreading their lies and 2. paid content trolls that are willing to use the credibility of the platform that they use to spread lies designed to fit a narrative.

Blue brother said:

I think this is where me and you differ cc, just because I hate eating shit doesn’t mean I love drinking piss!

I think if you dig enough and look at the scandals in office in the last century you will see that cowardly and self centred acts like those committed by trump have been committed on the same scale by numerous presidents and high ranking officials for a loooong time. Like the guy I debated with earlier in this thread said trump is just today’s best example.

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How many years during this time period have the Democrats had the power to actually do anythign about these very real problems at the federal level?

Blue brother said:

I think this is where me and you differ cc, just because I hate eating shit doesn’t mean I love drinking piss!

I think if you dig enough and look at the scandals in office in the last century you will see that cowardly and self centred acts like those committed by trump have been committed on the same scale by numerous presidents and high ranking officials for a loooong time. Like the guy I debated with earlier in this thread said trump is just today’s best example.

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In this are you saying that Biden is piss and Trump is shit?

Blue brother said:

The thought that people can only have mental capacity to consider one liar over another is sickening. You hate trump so you must love Biden or you hate Biden so must love trump I could laugh all year at this logic. Wake the Fk up man. These are mind expanding substances grown here, partake. You might just be enlightened.

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Comparing Biden to Trump is nonsensical unless you are talking about them both being old white guys.

Biden had about 50 years of being under constant scrutiny and is scandal free (outside of the propaganda Trump and the Republicans hoped people would believe) which is not anything that Trump can try to say.

Understanding this reality is not about liking anyone.

Blue brother said:

Can I just ask the definition of the word bot? I see it used so much in this thread? Obviously I know what a robot is and understand that software is often used to converse with someone giving pre written statements without ever thinking for itself. Are there accounts on here that are software controlled? Not real people?

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https://www.rollitup.org/t/ap-cyborgs-trolls-and-bots-a-guide-to-online-misinformation.1005699/post-16246547

SATIVAZOID ROBOT said:

Stay away....I'm a FREE american...my freedom does not end because ppl like you live in fear...get a grip sweet pea

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Your ignorance makes you a cog.

SATIVAZOID ROBOT said:

And you see no problem with this???

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What is wrong with avoiding plague carriers?

hanimmal said:

I agree with your point here, where then I will strongly disagree is that there is a category of lying that both the Democrats and the Republicans in DC belong to when it comes to it. Only one party has weaponized lying, and that is the Republicans since at least the repeal during the Reagan era that allowed hate radio and Fox News to launch their anti-Democrat platforms.

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weaponised lying? Isn’t all lying if done to purposely deceive a person or persons weaponised?
I refer to the evidence of Tony bobulinski, the whistleblower who leaked documents and audio files proving that Biden lied to America.

hanimmal said:

How are Democrat's 'lying about your liberty'?

I call bullshit on them being able to tell us everything as some achievable outcome. I also call bullshit on that being a reason to compare the current Democratic party, which is the first I know of in human history to actually be governing for 100% of a nation's population, to the current Republican party.

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I never said the democrats specifically. Although they do too along with all other parties tbh. It’s not about just cutting the head off the serpent. The whole system is fundamentally flawed and has demonstrated time after time their willingness to ignore the constitution and the rights of the American people.

Maybe you are happy with this, I can understand that people are happy to accept what they believe to be the lesser evil (a nee president) knowing full well that there are some things within government that they don’t agree with but can’t do anything about. If this is you then fair enough.
But there are still people who will never be happy because they know that no matter who they appoint as president, the crimes against the constitution will still continue in the name of national security.

hanimmal said:

"Illegally spying on the public" is bullshit IMO. Our citizens should not expect our government to allow a foreign military to have more access to our citizens than we have to ourselves.

I am all for data rights, and think that every person should have full access to every scrap of their own data.

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whether you call this bullshit or not doesn’t matter. The fact is that it Is very much illegal and unconstitutional. It was actually proven to be illegal by a u.s court

hanimmal said:

What censorship?

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Both the governments act of banning information for whatever reason and also corporate censorship which is a lot harder to tackle as people are usually threatened with the loss of their jobs if they do not censor the information they wish to disclose

hanimmal said:

Please feel free to give me an example of censorship with the AP news that you are talking about.

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I never actually referred to any specific news company and showing you a specific example of censorship within this company is impossible as I do not have any of their original reports to compare to the reports that are readily available.
However all media is subject to censorship within the United States so New York’s associated press has no immunity from censorship.

maybe I have misunderstood your question so if my answer doesn’t fit please elaborate and we can go over this again.

hanimmal said:

How many years during this time period have the Democrats had the power to actually do anythign about these very real problems at the federal level?

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is this a rhetorical question? Or do you want me to add up all the years that the democrats have been in power? I used the century just as some goalposts so Cc Wouldn’t be sat going through the wrongdoings of presidents as far back as Jefferson. The last century does suffice to prove my point in its original context but to answer your question maybe we should move a goal post all the way back to Jefferson? Or not hahaha.

To this date there have been 21 Democrat presidents and 19 republican presidents. I must admit I don’t know the length of time each party has spent in a position of federal influence. I have just googled this. I’m not going to lie and look like an idiot haha. Do you know?

I feel I must reiterate that I am neither left or right. I feel both sides bring good quality’s and bad quality’s. My problem is with wrongdoing by all parties and especially wrongdoings by people in government agencies, who will continue to do wrong whether it is a Democrat or republican in charge.

I hope my quotes have worked properly

hanimmal said:

In this are you saying that Biden is piss and Trump is shit?
Comparing Biden to Trump is nonsensical unless you are talking about them both being old white guys.

Biden had about 50 years of being under constant scrutiny and is scandal free (outside of the propaganda Trump and the Republicans hoped people would believe) which is not anything that Trump can try to say.

Understanding this reality is not about liking anyone.

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I am not comparing the two, I am saying they’re both unpalatable for me.

I agree this is not about liking anyone, as I said I don’t like either.

this is the nature of government, they don’t work for us, they maintain us, they work for the money and power that got them in office

Blue brother said:

The whole system is fundamentally flawed...

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Just wanted to comment on this part, because the founding fathers were clear that this experiment only works with decent people that want it to work. Our system is loaded with features, not so much flaws, per se. One could argue that the system is missing a maintenance program which helps reinforce its understanding upon the public, but it's a catch 22, because mandating such a thing partially nullifies the main feature(freedom). We were supposed to do it on our own and sheer selfishness en masse has taken over.

It's probably too late for us at this point, because it's extremely unlikely that we'll be able to convince the majority to stop being so selfish and start being considerate of others when there's really no instant gratification in doing so, and instant gratification has permeated every aspect of our culture for decades. It's too embedded at this point.

And what I mean by "consideration for others" is where, as much as I dislike your things, be it abortion or guns or trans-bathrooms or border control, I support your right to feel differently from me and concede some of my own wants so you can have yours, and you can concede some of your wants so I can have mine. Otherwise, you end up with the direction we're heading, which is, "my rights are the best and fuck you I'm going to actively work towards taking away yours", which only leads to conflict and weakness and outside predators exploiting our weakness(i.e. history repeating itself).

Blue brother said:

weaponised lying? Isn’t all lying if done to purposely deceive a person or persons weaponised?
I refer to the evidence of Tony bobulinski, the whistleblower who leaked documents and audio files proving that Biden lied to America.

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And that was debunked too.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/hunter-gazi-giuliani-and-russian-propaganda-scam-to-help-trump-get-re-eelcted.1035197/

You just pushing more propaganda man.

And no, by weaponized I mean creating an entire circle jerk of trolls (news-esque propaganda websites (even looking like local news) hate radio, Fox news 'entertainers, comment section trolls that know exactly who you are, on and on all the way back to Trump/Putin), for you to have something like the one you just posted that amplified and hardens people's memory to believe that it is true no matter what.

Because it is being shown over and over again, across many different sources and then your 'friends' hear it and you guys talk about it, maybe someone gets into an argument because they are getting the weaponized disinformation from a 'left-troll' source like 'the Hill', which just again hardens you to the truth because you are so invested in the big lies.

Blue brother said:

I never said the democrats specifically. Although they do too along with all other parties tbh. It’s not about just cutting the head off the serpent. The whole system is fundamentally flawed and has demonstrated time after time their willingness to ignore the constitution and the rights of the American people.

Maybe you are happy with this, I can understand that people are happy to accept what they believe to be the lesser evil (a nee president) knowing full well that there are some things within government that they don’t agree with but can’t do anything about. If this is you then fair enough.
But there are still people who will never be happy because they know that no matter who they appoint as president, the crimes against the constitution will still continue in the name of national security.

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So after hundreds of years we finally get to the point that one entire political party is comprised of well qualified people representing 100% of our nation, and you think we should just tear everything up and hope for something better?

Nah. I will pass.

Instead I think we should continue to improve and finally get the Republicans to let serious people who are willing to legislate for the benefit of everyone take over. For too long the best way for the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda to keep control over everything is to drag their heels on anything being done.

Vote in better people is the best way to fix this. And not buying into the narratives that the militarized trolls (foreign and domestic) are propping up in the Republican party are feeding us.

Blue brother said:

whether you call this bullshit or not doesn’t matter. The fact is that it Is very much illegal and unconstitutional. It was actually proven to be illegal by a u.s court

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Based on limits set by Congress. Which is called accountability.

What Snowden smuggled to the Russians is being weaponized against our citizens. That is the problem now.

Blue brother said:

Both the governments act of banning information for whatever reason and also corporate censorship which is a lot harder to tackle as people are usually threatened with the loss of their jobs if they do not censor the information they wish to disclose

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Both governments? I am losing you now. At the end of the day shit needs to be censored from time to time. Exploiting children for example is something that our government should not ever allow.

But people losing their jobs for saying stupid shit is nothing new. People pretending like they should be able to do that online and not get called out for their hateful shit when they get caught, is not realistic.

Blue brother said:

I never actually referred to any specific news company and showing you a specific example of censorship within this company is impossible as I do not have any of their original reports to compare to the reports that are readily available.
However all media is subject to censorship within the United States so New York’s associated press has no immunity from censorship.

maybe I have misunderstood your question so if my answer doesn’t fit please elaborate and we can go over this again.

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I think you need to define what you mean by censorship. I think you are kind of using it like anything, but that is just a hop-skip from being a 'cancel culture' troll that is very popular right now since the Republican's don't have any actual platform other than trolling the Democrats.

Blue brother said:

is this a rhetorical question? Or do you want me to add up all the years that the democrats have been in power? I used the century just as some goalposts so Cc Wouldn’t be sat going through the wrongdoings of presidents as far back as Jefferson. The last century does suffice to prove my point in its original context but to answer your question maybe we should move a goal post all the way back to Jefferson? Or not hahaha.

To this date there have been 21 Democrat presidents and 19 republican presidents. I must admit I don’t know the length of time each party has spent in a position of federal influence. I have just googled this. I’m not going to lie and look like an idiot haha. Do you know?

I feel I must reiterate that I am neither left or right. I feel both sides bring good quality’s and bad quality’s. My problem is with wrongdoing by all parties and especially wrongdoings by people in government agencies, who will continue to do wrong whether it is a Democrat or republican in charge.

I hope my quotes have worked properly

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6 years, this year will be the 7th. That is all the time that the Democrats have held POTUS, the Senate and congress since Carter. I use him as the first post civil rights era Democratic POTUS.

Republicans need to get over trying to stop anything not directly benefitting the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda, and start legislating for everyone. Once we can have our entire government working for everyone, we will be far stronger and more prosperous as a society.

Blue brother said:

I am not comparing the two, I am saying they’re both unpalatable for me.

I agree this is not about liking anyone, as I said I don’t like either.

this is the nature of government, they don’t work for us, they maintain us, they work for the money and power that got them in office

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A lot of time and money have gone into getting people to feel this exact way that you are describing.

mooray said:

Just wanted to comment on this part, because the founding fathers were clear that this experiment only works with decent people that want it to work. Our system is loaded with features, not so much flaws, per se. One could argue that the system is missing a maintenance program which helps reinforce its understanding upon the public, but it's a catch 22, because mandating such a thing partially nullifies the main feature(freedom). We were supposed to do it on our own and sheer selfishness en masse has taken over.

It's probably too late for us at this point, because it's extremely unlikely that we'll be able to convince the majority to stop being so selfish and start being considerate of others when there's really no instant gratification in doing so, and instant gratification has permeated every aspect of our culture for decades. It's too embedded at this point.

And what I mean by "consideration for others" is where, as much as I dislike your things, be it abortion or guns or trans-bathrooms or border control, I support your right to feel differently from me and concede some of my own wants so you can have yours, and you can concede some of your wants so I can have mine. Otherwise, you end up with the direction we're heading, which is, "my rights are the best and fuck you I'm going to actively work towards taking away yours", which only leads to conflict and weakness and outside predators exploiting our weakness(i.e. history repeating itself).

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Very well said mate I have taken a lot of points on board

Fogdog said:

What is wrong with avoiding plague carriers?

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Debating with this guy is reminiscent of a circle jerk debate with Rob. A shit load of complaining but not one reasonable solution to the real or perceived issues. And people like him/her should be held down and the vaccine administered forcefully and painfully or locked away.

Budley Doright said:

Debating with this guy is reminiscent of a circle jerk debate with Rob. A shit load of complaining but not one reasonable solution to the real or perceived issues. And people like him/her should be held down and the vaccine administered forcefully and painfully or locked away.

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Really and generalizing Biden and Trump as they both suck, I mean Speechless. Look I am not so naive to perceive any Pres as the shining white knight. To make it to top levels of politics will inevitably tarnish all of them, compromises are inevitable to garner support. But there still are degrees to these matters.Biden has been in politics so long it's impossible for him to be squeeky clean, but he is a decent caring man of much experience who is genuinely likeable and gives off a vibe of authenticity and to put this man in the same basket as Trump is preposterous.ccguns

People aren't binary and there are aspects beyond good and bad. Scott Peterson and Ted Bundy are both murderers and are not good people, so they are the "same" in that respect. However, one of them has done significantly more damage than the other and is *also* far worse. Not either or, but in addition to.

mooray said:

People aren't binary and there are aspects beyond good and bad. Scott Peterson and Ted Bundy are both murderers and are not good people, so they are the "same" in that respect. However, one of them has done significantly more damage than the other and is *also* far worse. Not either or, but in addition to.

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lulz

You give them all the benefit of the doubt after they rape murder and kill. What a sap.

No, man, they aren't like us. Maybe you, but not me. The only way to deal with a fascist is to oppose them.

Republicans And White Evangelicals Most Likely to Say No to Vaccine: Survey

I wonder if the virus might cause auto-immune disorders. I wonder too, if the vaccine will. Time will tell I guess, although with no liability, there is no real incentive to investigate the "correlations" of vaccine deaths within 24 hours (mostly elderly but not all), or anything else for that matter related to vaccine harm incidences. I would feel better about the vaccine safety if manufacturers were liable for serious injury.