Good stuff for sure, but shipping cost would be prohibitive. Been looking locally and I may get lucky. Lots of agriculture and livestock in the area, but haven't got to all the feed&seed stores yet.
Wet
will this product kill beneficial bacteria?
- Thread starter allidoissmoke
- Start date
Good stuff for sure, but shipping cost would be prohibitive. Been looking locally and I may get lucky. Lots of agriculture and livestock in the area, but haven't got to all the feed&seed stores yet.
Wet
woodsmaneh!
Well-Known Member
So all that cooking and steaming kills it and there is no BSD in the USA, Have a read....
Thank you paghat the ratgirl!
Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all
four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. It is believed they
inhaled the initial prion infection while spreading bone meal in their
gardens.
Agricultural lobby & spin doctors have hired scientific spokespersons to
state pretty much "there is no evidence that BSE can infect humans by
inhaling bone meal." The guys hired to say this usually have five or six
degrees in science, but never did any actual studies, & get paid by
Agribusiness which uses bonemeal.
It remains that the four cases in England have never been explained by any
alternative theory, since those four gardeners had not been exposed to
infected meat.
It is also not being studied to what degree the BSE prions can be
absorbed, unaltered, into edible tubors & plants --thus entering the food
chain even for vegetarians. It is theoretically possible, but it isn't
being studied, so there is no evidence one way or the other.
The prions have reached the bone meal product by several methods. While it
is no longer legal to put infected sheep & cattle meat in feeds for dogs,
cats, pigs, or cattle, it is still legal to make a rendering product from
waste meats that are not to be used as animal feeds. BSE infects game
animals in the United States, especially elk, & these end up at rendering
plants as roadkill. They also render sheep, the most commonly infected
farm animals in the United States. Lastly, while it is widely believed
that chickens cannot be infected, some scientists speculate that chickens
have "safely" eaten prion-infected feeds merely because their lifespans
are too short for the infection to injur them -- but the prions could
nevertheless be in their brainstem & spine, & rendered chicken meal could
also be a source of the prions.
And the rendering plant industry is self-regulating (meaning largely
unregulated). On the rare occasion when anyone ever checked to see if
self-regulation worked, the vats obviously had everything from zoo animals
& roadkill to dog & cat carcasses from animal control & run-over racoons,
with wildlly inadequate methods of monitoring which end-product batch gets
labeled liver meal or chicken meal or beefmeal allegedly suitable to feed
even pets -- & you can bet they care even less what goes into their
garden-grade garbage. Not much in the news was an American recall of
Canadian pet foods found to be contaminated by BSE prions, but if anyone
thinks they're more careful in say Milwaukee than in Alberta, they're
kiddin' themselves.
Because the risks of bone meal in garfdening is not being studied for
publication in peer-review contexts, it is possible to say there is no
definitive evidence of risk, & fail to mention no one is looking for the
evidence because vested parties fund such research & can pick & choose
what suits agribusiness best. And those four British cases remain a
haunting answer to any Agribusiness spin about it all beikng unproven. One
of these victims reportly "never wore a mask & used to grind up the soil
& make a big cloud of dust" when adding bonemeal to his rose garden, & was
exposed to it on many occasions over a great length of time. The majority
of Britain's human cases ate at MacDonalds -- MacDonalds was the sole
source of the contaminated meat! -- but four victims were evidently
exposed only to bone meal fertilizers. That fact doesn't qualify as a
"study" so agribusiness dismisses the cases as unproven, & will certainly
never admit how extremely likely it is.
In a garden that is not used for harvested vegetables, & if a gardener
wears a high-end face mask while spreading bonemeal (not one of those
worthless felt paper mouth guards), the possibility of risk would seem
largely to be mitigated. Not that I've ever seen a gardener with even one
of the worthless felt-paper face guards which stop nothing from going up
the snout, let alone an industrial grade real-deal filter mask.
But even if it were reasonable to assume it is safe to breathe in bone
meal while fertilizing the garden, I would not use it. I do not want to
look at my gardens & have to think, "I've sprinkled rendered animals all
over that."
Thank you paghat the ratgirl!
Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all
four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. It is believed they
inhaled the initial prion infection while spreading bone meal in their
gardens.
Agricultural lobby & spin doctors have hired scientific spokespersons to
state pretty much "there is no evidence that BSE can infect humans by
inhaling bone meal." The guys hired to say this usually have five or six
degrees in science, but never did any actual studies, & get paid by
Agribusiness which uses bonemeal.
It remains that the four cases in England have never been explained by any
alternative theory, since those four gardeners had not been exposed to
infected meat.
It is also not being studied to what degree the BSE prions can be
absorbed, unaltered, into edible tubors & plants --thus entering the food
chain even for vegetarians. It is theoretically possible, but it isn't
being studied, so there is no evidence one way or the other.
The prions have reached the bone meal product by several methods. While it
is no longer legal to put infected sheep & cattle meat in feeds for dogs,
cats, pigs, or cattle, it is still legal to make a rendering product from
waste meats that are not to be used as animal feeds. BSE infects game
animals in the United States, especially elk, & these end up at rendering
plants as roadkill. They also render sheep, the most commonly infected
farm animals in the United States. Lastly, while it is widely believed
that chickens cannot be infected, some scientists speculate that chickens
have "safely" eaten prion-infected feeds merely because their lifespans
are too short for the infection to injur them -- but the prions could
nevertheless be in their brainstem & spine, & rendered chicken meal could
also be a source of the prions.
And the rendering plant industry is self-regulating (meaning largely
unregulated). On the rare occasion when anyone ever checked to see if
self-regulation worked, the vats obviously had everything from zoo animals
& roadkill to dog & cat carcasses from animal control & run-over racoons,
with wildlly inadequate methods of monitoring which end-product batch gets
labeled liver meal or chicken meal or beefmeal allegedly suitable to feed
even pets -- & you can bet they care even less what goes into their
garden-grade garbage. Not much in the news was an American recall of
Canadian pet foods found to be contaminated by BSE prions, but if anyone
thinks they're more careful in say Milwaukee than in Alberta, they're
kiddin' themselves.
Because the risks of bone meal in garfdening is not being studied for
publication in peer-review contexts, it is possible to say there is no
definitive evidence of risk, & fail to mention no one is looking for the
evidence because vested parties fund such research & can pick & choose
what suits agribusiness best. And those four British cases remain a
haunting answer to any Agribusiness spin about it all beikng unproven. One
of these victims reportly "never wore a mask & used to grind up the soil
& make a big cloud of dust" when adding bonemeal to his rose garden, & was
exposed to it on many occasions over a great length of time. The majority
of Britain's human cases ate at MacDonalds -- MacDonalds was the sole
source of the contaminated meat! -- but four victims were evidently
exposed only to bone meal fertilizers. That fact doesn't qualify as a
"study" so agribusiness dismisses the cases as unproven, & will certainly
never admit how extremely likely it is.
In a garden that is not used for harvested vegetables, & if a gardener
wears a high-end face mask while spreading bonemeal (not one of those
worthless felt paper mouth guards), the possibility of risk would seem
largely to be mitigated. Not that I've ever seen a gardener with even one
of the worthless felt-paper face guards which stop nothing from going up
the snout, let alone an industrial grade real-deal filter mask.
But even if it were reasonable to assume it is safe to breathe in bone
meal while fertilizing the garden, I would not use it. I do not want to
look at my gardens & have to think, "I've sprinkled rendered animals all
over that."
tomalock
Active Member
I never said anything about cooking or steaming anything I made a reference to where I get my bone meal and that is right out of the incenerator that burns them, so no I think the fire from the furnace kills everything. Also I might add common sense and the directions on the labels of grow mixtures tells one not to breath any type of dust if at all possible. It is the natural order of things that live on this planet to return to the soil upon death, what made us up into mammals came from the soil in one form or another, one who goes against nature is well "out of balance". So yea if I have access to dead/rotten animals sometime to add to the soil I will, dead animals in the soil complete the life cycle. That pretty much settles it.
RavenMochi
Well-Known Member
"out of balance" how should I put this... †ROFLFAO† TO LATE!!! we did that already, which is why we have some of the problems we do, super bacterias bread by us in our never ending search for safety we shot ourselves in the foot. So while, yes, the dead must return to the dust, there is so much this earth grows that we were not meant to eat, let those plants have those wonderful nutrients, will stick to our wonderful nutrients, and everyone gets out without a visit by the cdc... 
by the way, all of this is simply my humble opinion and is not the opinion of rollitup.org, cisco, fox network, or even the cdc...
"There is so much truth in insanity, which is why I drive myself into a psychotic fit when I need answers..." -SniperKitty
by the way, all of this is simply my humble opinion and is not the opinion of rollitup.org, cisco, fox network, or even the cdc...
"There is so much truth in insanity, which is why I drive myself into a psychotic fit when I need answers..." -SniperKitty
tomalock
Active Member
There are things you add to the soil made in nature that stop alot of the problems you get with using organic manures and such, there is a thing called balance in nature where the bad is out-weighted by the good which is why we and plants have immune systems and tolerances. This was achived by evloution/adapting to climate however you want to put it, this is something that can NOT be gotten away from.
Look everyone can grow whatever they please and they way they please I couldn't care less, but the facts remain, we have used natural organic manures on this farm now for 2 generations and not ONCE has there ever been any type of bacteria or any visit from the CDC about ANYTHING and we get checked by the local/state and federal agencies all the time. Our manures are piled on concerte till it's time to use them and then they are scattered all over the fields that grow the produce that is served in schools, homes,resturants,grocery stores, etc. in the spring of the year. Also I never said we are to eat all things grown from the earth did I and I'm not refereing to the "things" they cook up in a lab so let's not go there.
Organic natural manures when used properly is the best nutrients one can put to the soil every professional horticulture business and college, universities that has a horticulture department will say the same thing: if done properly organic manures and such are the best nutrients.
Just look at what they have done to the grounds of Harvard Univ. they compost there organic matter first then make a tea from it and it is sprayed all over the gounds and have increased the top-soil layer to approx. 18 inches compaired to the chemical-based nutrient of around 2-3 inches. More and more people are re-learning to importance of organic matter, something people who live on farms have known all our lives.
I do have a "little experience" with both organic and chemical based nutrients since I have grown up on a farm and I'm retired now, this is NOT my first BBQ.
Would you care to see a 13 meg flash movie of what I can do at 10 weeks of age on a plant? I think that will pretty much settle the argument on this matter once and for all?
JMHO
Look everyone can grow whatever they please and they way they please I couldn't care less, but the facts remain, we have used natural organic manures on this farm now for 2 generations and not ONCE has there ever been any type of bacteria or any visit from the CDC about ANYTHING and we get checked by the local/state and federal agencies all the time. Our manures are piled on concerte till it's time to use them and then they are scattered all over the fields that grow the produce that is served in schools, homes,resturants,grocery stores, etc. in the spring of the year. Also I never said we are to eat all things grown from the earth did I and I'm not refereing to the "things" they cook up in a lab so let's not go there.
Organic natural manures when used properly is the best nutrients one can put to the soil every professional horticulture business and college, universities that has a horticulture department will say the same thing: if done properly organic manures and such are the best nutrients.
Just look at what they have done to the grounds of Harvard Univ. they compost there organic matter first then make a tea from it and it is sprayed all over the gounds and have increased the top-soil layer to approx. 18 inches compaired to the chemical-based nutrient of around 2-3 inches. More and more people are re-learning to importance of organic matter, something people who live on farms have known all our lives.
I do have a "little experience" with both organic and chemical based nutrients since I have grown up on a farm and I'm retired now, this is NOT my first BBQ.
Would you care to see a 13 meg flash movie of what I can do at 10 weeks of age on a plant? I think that will pretty much settle the argument on this matter once and for all?
JMHO
RavenMochi
Well-Known Member
no, actually it doesn't settle anything but your ego. for thousands of years parents gave they're babies honey, many with no ill effect whatsoever, but if your the parent who's infant comes down with botulism, would you still be able to say it was a good idea, because thousands of other kids you don't know came out okay? probably not.
Also, our concerns were blood/bone meal, not every organic method, where you got that I will never know, compost can be made without either, fully organic, without the concern that comes with it.
Surely with your endless experience you know that not all organics need blood mean or bone meal, and while they may have wonderful potential, nature can use that potential without the same concerns as we have.
Now its obvious if your pulling out footage from you 10 yr old accomplishments your ego got bruised, so here... †gives an ego bandage†
Also, our concerns were blood/bone meal, not every organic method, where you got that I will never know, compost can be made without either, fully organic, without the concern that comes with it.
Surely with your endless experience you know that not all organics need blood mean or bone meal, and while they may have wonderful potential, nature can use that potential without the same concerns as we have.
Now its obvious if your pulling out footage from you 10 yr old accomplishments your ego got bruised, so here... †gives an ego bandage†
tomalock
Active Member
Naturally if someone is alergic to something or rancid you don't consume it, that's just common sence. Yes it was about bone meal and every gardener knows how good it is and it is recommended to be used by organic gardeners, that's where "one" of the areas I get it from not counting my own use of it and yes it is possible to acquire the same nutrients from another source but it will not be as good or as easy to acquire as is bone meal. As far as an ego I have none it matters nothing to me what anyone thinks, too many know the truth of the matter and in no way will I discuss something with someone who has not tried what I do and still refuses to acknowledge any of the facts I have stated but instead only bases their opionions on what they have read somewhere. I started doing this when I was around 15 , I'm 53 now and where you get 10 year old anything is beyond me.
I'm not saying any of this to be offencive or harmful or rude I'm just stating a fact and feel free to believe what your heart desires but until you can say you have grown it the way I have don't put it down.
I'm not saying any of this to be offencive or harmful or rude I'm just stating a fact and feel free to believe what your heart desires but until you can say you have grown it the way I have don't put it down.
RavenMochi
Well-Known Member
1) where I got 10 years old- my eyesight sucks and I read it wrong, you said 10 weeks.... hangs head in shame 
2) I'm not putting it down, I'm acknowledging the risk.in..for instance, while I smoke pot I have to acknowledge the risk of inhaling burnt material damaging my lungs, though I have yet know someone who has gotten lung cancer from mj, inhaling smoke is inherently not healthy, but I still do it. So don't get so offended, even you after all that success with no ill effect should acknowledge risk...turning a blind eye never helped anyone...
3) I'm not arguing its effectiveness, if it wasn't effective it would never have made it to this conversation, what were discussing is RISK, nothing else. If I was just growing for myself, taking such a risk would mean nothing to me, wouldn't have given a second thought, but we don't just grow mj here, we grow for foods herbs and spices...(and hopefully soon vanilla
and as daddy bear, I need the food we grow to be as risk free as possible, I realize there are risks that no precautions can take care of, but I have the obligation to try...I'm sure at your age you can more than understand that.
4) "I'm not saying any of this to be offencive or harmful or rude" your in luck, great think about debating with me is I have a thick skin, don't even give it a second though, let it all come out, its in debate and argument that we find truth we would not ourselves face... As far as the last post, reading it again I realize why I try to stay off forums when I'm dry...takes a hit I was way to tense...that to, was my bad...
friends?
2) I'm not putting it down, I'm acknowledging the risk.in..for instance, while I smoke pot I have to acknowledge the risk of inhaling burnt material damaging my lungs, though I have yet know someone who has gotten lung cancer from mj, inhaling smoke is inherently not healthy, but I still do it. So don't get so offended, even you after all that success with no ill effect should acknowledge risk...turning a blind eye never helped anyone...
3) I'm not arguing its effectiveness, if it wasn't effective it would never have made it to this conversation, what were discussing is RISK, nothing else. If I was just growing for myself, taking such a risk would mean nothing to me, wouldn't have given a second thought, but we don't just grow mj here, we grow for foods herbs and spices...(and hopefully soon vanilla
and as daddy bear, I need the food we grow to be as risk free as possible, I realize there are risks that no precautions can take care of, but I have the obligation to try...I'm sure at your age you can more than understand that. 4) "I'm not saying any of this to be offencive or harmful or rude" your in luck, great think about debating with me is I have a thick skin, don't even give it a second though, let it all come out, its in debate and argument that we find truth we would not ourselves face...
As far as the last post, reading it again I realize why I try to stay off forums when I'm dry...takes a hit I was way to tense...that to, was my bad...friends?
Back to topic?
Yep, mix it in as well as you can and water in well.
Give it at least a week to start working. Next transplant or grow, mix into the soil before use.
Wet
tomalock
Active Member
friends?
I never thought otherwise and yes I will agree with what you just said it is right. That one of the reason I always tell people to always use good common sence, anyone can do silly things not knowing it is silly. My step-father now is having bad problems with his health and has for years because I think of the things he had been exposed to on the farm here over the years. Also one of the reasons we have a building here I will not enter for any reason I'd rather build a form around it and seal it in concrete. But now sinice my little brother runs the farm it is all grown differently as is most of the produce farms that I have seen and know of. The foods now grown on farms doesn't have all the chemicals they use to have.
But yes if one uses nutrient in ways or let it do things like it should NOT do (such as not using bone meal out in the open air with a small breeze) is down right stupid and not only will it effect the plants after a time it can and will effect you, another reason for checks and balances. But there will always be exceptions to the case in anything.
RavenMochi
Well-Known Member
while were on the topic, you mentioned using dead animals, but I've been told not to use fats in compost, do you know why fat is bad, and should it be a lean animal (ie. rabbit, squirrel)? or was the no fats thing even valid?
tomalock
Active Member
Well actually I was just using that as a reference, I've never really used a dead animal on purpose but there has been several times when I was loading up the chicken manure I would see parts of chickens in it and I just add ed it to the soil and I always lime really good also. But you mentioned not to use fat of animals, I've never heard that, possible it's true I've never heard either way.
But it isn't the safest thing to use dead animals as nutrients, (not a bad source of nutrients but) some pathogens can change species between animals and humans, but with that said say for example if someone found a dead rotent or other animal it wouldn't hurt to just throw it in the compost bin and let it decay with the rest. Now we have a place that we have dumped dead cows from time to time in the past (maybe 1 a year) and I have noticed that the cows decay pretty fast, now I have not used any of the soil but the trees next to the spot grow like crazy, but I imagine like all organic matter once it decays it is basically reduced to it's basic elements and humas/topsoil.
But it isn't the safest thing to use dead animals as nutrients, (not a bad source of nutrients but) some pathogens can change species between animals and humans, but with that said say for example if someone found a dead rotent or other animal it wouldn't hurt to just throw it in the compost bin and let it decay with the rest. Now we have a place that we have dumped dead cows from time to time in the past (maybe 1 a year) and I have noticed that the cows decay pretty fast, now I have not used any of the soil but the trees next to the spot grow like crazy, but I imagine like all organic matter once it decays it is basically reduced to it's basic elements and humas/topsoil.
RavenMochi
Well-Known Member
"but I imagine like all organic matter once it decays it is basically reduced to it's basic elements and humas/topsoil..." and thats another thing I'm wondering, do any diseases harmful to us survive the decaying process once its completed, or at that point is it just healthy soil? cuase if so it almost seems like it might be a safer way, not being in a powder its not likely to become airborne...
tomalock
Active Member
Good point, actually I am not aware of any germ or pathogen that naturally occures but I'm sure there is some but I have never seen or heard of any found in nature that deadly that could survive the heat of a composting process. In compost bins they tell me it reaches 160 degrees (personally I do own one but I know of some who do so I go on there word), I am told it also works (but slower) just by piling in on the ground and letting the natural process do the job, (that is how I use it)
With a damaged nerve in my spine I can't carry too much wet things so all my stuff MUST be dry for me to carry it in a bucket, it works just as well without the compost bin. I have taken a large truck load of manure once and put it on a garden spot that had poor soil, it was fresh when dumped and the soil got so hot during the decaying process I could not walk bare-footed in the soil, I could see some bugs leaving the soil it was so hot. But after 30 days my grandparents planted some beans in that garden and my grandfather said I killed the soil at first but after it went thru the heat/decay process he changed his mind, he then said he had NEVER seen that amount of beans come off a plant in his entire life.
Wheather it's safer or not to use processed nutrients I can't really say, but I can truthfully say this: if there is any danger from using unprocessed organic nutrients which I'm sure there are and will be instances that accidents happen as in anything else in life, can be avoided by using a little common sence and just thinking ahead of time what they are doing. Now air-borne germs well I imagine if they ARE in the organic matter it may not matter any since you were breathing it to begin with since it would be so close to you to start with?
I've never seen it happen but like anything else nothing is impossible. But I would say it is unlikely to find a dangerous air-borne pathogen in organic matter since it also contains pathogens that will kill the harmful stuff with no effects to animals, that's one of the beauties in nature you will also find the remendy to the harmful.
But as to if it is safe for someone to use this stuff for plants, my answer is yes prefectlly safe if used with common sence and reading up on it's use, which the info can found easily on the internet and/or in the local library and book stores.
Truthfully I suggest all new growers to learn with organic before they try the chemical route, they may prefer the chemical over the organic or they may prefer the organic that's all in the person. I learned the chemical first because of living on a farm but I learned a better way for my taste and I like it much better and have better success with the organic method.
With a damaged nerve in my spine I can't carry too much wet things so all my stuff MUST be dry for me to carry it in a bucket, it works just as well without the compost bin. I have taken a large truck load of manure once and put it on a garden spot that had poor soil, it was fresh when dumped and the soil got so hot during the decaying process I could not walk bare-footed in the soil, I could see some bugs leaving the soil it was so hot. But after 30 days my grandparents planted some beans in that garden and my grandfather said I killed the soil at first but after it went thru the heat/decay process he changed his mind, he then said he had NEVER seen that amount of beans come off a plant in his entire life.
Wheather it's safer or not to use processed nutrients I can't really say, but I can truthfully say this: if there is any danger from using unprocessed organic nutrients which I'm sure there are and will be instances that accidents happen as in anything else in life, can be avoided by using a little common sence and just thinking ahead of time what they are doing. Now air-borne germs well I imagine if they ARE in the organic matter it may not matter any since you were breathing it to begin with since it would be so close to you to start with?
I've never seen it happen but like anything else nothing is impossible. But I would say it is unlikely to find a dangerous air-borne pathogen in organic matter since it also contains pathogens that will kill the harmful stuff with no effects to animals, that's one of the beauties in nature you will also find the remendy to the harmful.
But as to if it is safe for someone to use this stuff for plants, my answer is yes prefectlly safe if used with common sence and reading up on it's use, which the info can found easily on the internet and/or in the local library and book stores.
Truthfully I suggest all new growers to learn with organic before they try the chemical route, they may prefer the chemical over the organic or they may prefer the organic that's all in the person. I learned the chemical first because of living on a farm but I learned a better way for my taste and I like it much better and have better success with the organic method.
RavenMochi
Well-Known Member
hmmm....160 degrees, thats hot enough to kill most bacteria when your cooking....I'm gonna do some experiments on this, which is good timing cuase I have a huge pile already started that will take some time, I'm going to get a infrared them to keep up with the temp as it goes through the process and post the results...I'm a big fan of natural purifying (sun bleaching, natural antibiotics and antiseptics, ants cleaning bone etc) Mothers diseases may scare me but her purifying process fascinated me.
I have to say I've always been a big fan of organic, I prefer compost to chemical fertilizers, but most of what I learned growing up was from my grandparents garden, and having seen how well it worked for everything they grew, I just figured it was mother natures best and didn't see the reason to try the chemicals until I got older, and that was just miracle grow, but now that Im at a place where I can start a comp heap I have and can't wait for it to do its thing...
I have to say I've always been a big fan of organic, I prefer compost to chemical fertilizers, but most of what I learned growing up was from my grandparents garden, and having seen how well it worked for everything they grew, I just figured it was mother natures best and didn't see the reason to try the chemicals until I got older, and that was just miracle grow, but now that Im at a place where I can start a comp heap I have and can't wait for it to do its thing...
tomalock
Active Member
That's pretty much what I thought also about the temps. (damn that hit was good, silver haze and a little hash oil on top <g>) anyhow. My grandparents are also the ones who exposed me to a garden, I still remember help grandmother gather the eggs and helping pick the vegetables and papa using a mule to plow tobacco and such. Dirt poor you might say and happy as a pig with a bucket of slop! <g> Didn't have two pennies to rub together and had everything I could desire or want. (Go figure is what I tell them now <g>), People don't need money to be truly happy, money causes problems and one does not need problems.
Yea they say the UV rays are also good at killing germs, and a person is right to be afraid of "somethings" in nature, (some scary the living hell out of me and I know how to make a couple, but no way in hell would you see me missing with that stuff) and rightly so it can kill a person dead as a doornail QUICKLY. But under normal circumstance a person really doesn't need to worry as long as they use common sence. I imagine if a person was silly enough to mix different kinds of organic things (I'll not mention) in a container and sticks there head into it "just to see if it's mixed good" while the air is full of dust and later on they come "down with something", maybe one might say "That's natures way of thinning out the shallow end of the gene pool"? <g> I hate it for them and it gives a bad rep. sometimes to things that really didn't do nothing wrong except be itself, it's just well stupidity you might say.
But what one could do for a simple compost pile without the cost of buying or building anything is make a place on the ground they want a compost pile, lay down a big piece of plastic, find a ring or something to sit on the plastic that will hold things in place somewhat, just anything will do, then throw in all the material they want in the pile, mix it up good with a shovel or pitchfoork, and then cover it with black plastic, the sun will cook that baby faster than you can blink an eye. I haven't checked any temps on something like that but I know how it feels under black plastic under the full summer sun, the stuff will really cook.
Anyway, yes I have been a fan of organic you might say for as long as maybe when I was sitting on my butt one day and was just thinking as I looked at things and a thought came to me (or it could have been a little voice? not for me to say or worry about.) that "how is it that all these plants are here thriving just fine, actually did better BEFORE man came along without the things we put to the crops to grow?" I started looking and studying all I could and I asked my grandparents all I could about it also and what I found out is that if you take the amount I know about organics and put it in a book and compare it to what is really known about organics, the amount I know would amount to a "period" in the other book to what is really known about organics.
Mircle-Gro isn't as bad as what lots of people make it out to be, yes there are alot of better things but if that is what a person is use to and feels comfortable with and they are happy with what it gives them then who am I to say they shouldn't use it? But in a pinch (say when you run out of something and MG has a mixture "close" to what you want) it will not hurt it one bit to use once or twice, actually I have been known to use it from time to time and I've never had any problem at all from it. Granted I may only use it once in a crop, maybe MAYBE twice tops.
Yea they say the UV rays are also good at killing germs, and a person is right to be afraid of "somethings" in nature, (some scary the living hell out of me and I know how to make a couple, but no way in hell would you see me missing with that stuff) and rightly so it can kill a person dead as a doornail QUICKLY. But under normal circumstance a person really doesn't need to worry as long as they use common sence. I imagine if a person was silly enough to mix different kinds of organic things (I'll not mention) in a container and sticks there head into it "just to see if it's mixed good" while the air is full of dust and later on they come "down with something", maybe one might say "That's natures way of thinning out the shallow end of the gene pool"? <g> I hate it for them and it gives a bad rep. sometimes to things that really didn't do nothing wrong except be itself, it's just well stupidity you might say.
But what one could do for a simple compost pile without the cost of buying or building anything is make a place on the ground they want a compost pile, lay down a big piece of plastic, find a ring or something to sit on the plastic that will hold things in place somewhat, just anything will do, then throw in all the material they want in the pile, mix it up good with a shovel or pitchfoork, and then cover it with black plastic, the sun will cook that baby faster than you can blink an eye. I haven't checked any temps on something like that but I know how it feels under black plastic under the full summer sun, the stuff will really cook.
Anyway, yes I have been a fan of organic you might say for as long as maybe when I was sitting on my butt one day and was just thinking as I looked at things and a thought came to me (or it could have been a little voice? not for me to say or worry about.) that "how is it that all these plants are here thriving just fine, actually did better BEFORE man came along without the things we put to the crops to grow?" I started looking and studying all I could and I asked my grandparents all I could about it also and what I found out is that if you take the amount I know about organics and put it in a book and compare it to what is really known about organics, the amount I know would amount to a "period" in the other book to what is really known about organics.
Mircle-Gro isn't as bad as what lots of people make it out to be, yes there are alot of better things but if that is what a person is use to and feels comfortable with and they are happy with what it gives them then who am I to say they shouldn't use it? But in a pinch (say when you run out of something and MG has a mixture "close" to what you want) it will not hurt it one bit to use once or twice, actually I have been known to use it from time to time and I've never had any problem at all from it. Granted I may only use it once in a crop, maybe MAYBE twice tops.
tomalock
Active Member
You made a mention and I had forgotten about it but dead fish were used by the Indians when the colonist came from Europe and had been using fish as nutrients for as long as anyone can remember. They would dig a hole thrown in a fish or two, set the plant and cover the roots and as the fish rotted it released nutrients to the plants but the soil back then was much better than it is now.
